Author Topic: sicily  (Read 5029 times)

druss

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sicily
« on: March 26, 2015, 09:31:47 PM »
Hi all, i am in the process of purchasing 4 acres of land near cefalu in sicily. Though not tropical as such i think alot of what people have here would grow. Theres a well for irrigation, and its hillside near the coast so shouldnt get frost. Im looking for reccommendations, what plants would be a must have. They will  have to be seed grown. Below is a climate map the temps are farenheit.


Climate      jan Feb mar Apr may jun jul aug Sep oct nov Dec
Day temp  57   59  63     68     75  82  86  86   82   75   70   61      Nighttemp 43  43  48     54    57   64   68  68  66   61   55   48   

bangkok

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Re: sicily
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2015, 11:28:47 PM »
You don't have to grow it all from seed, there's much more availlable in Europe then we know. Even durians, but they won't grow there i guess.

But in Europe we don't use Fahrenheit and no inches and that stuff.

You can grow fingerlimes or good dragonfruit or mango, maybe papaya, avocado, mayongchid, abiu.

You can grow all tropicals except the ultra tropicals i guess. Just go to the local market and see what's there. Do you want to sell the fruit you grow or what's your plan there?

starling1

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Re: sicily
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2015, 11:31:34 PM »
You don't have to grow it all from seed, there's much more availlable in Europe then we know. Even durians, but they won't grow there i guess.

But in Europe we don't use Fahrenheit and no inches and that stuff.

You can grow fingerlimes or good dragonfruit or mango, maybe papaya, avocado, mayongchid, abiu.

You can grow all tropicals except the ultra tropicals i guess. Just go to the local market and see what's there. Do you want to sell the fruit you grow or what's your plan there?

we use the metric system in Australia too Bangkok.

bangkok

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Re: sicily
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 01:01:31 AM »
You don't have to grow it all from seed, there's much more availlable in Europe then we know. Even durians, but they won't grow there i guess.

But in Europe we don't use Fahrenheit and no inches and that stuff.

You can grow fingerlimes or good dragonfruit or mango, maybe papaya, avocado, mayongchid, abiu.

You can grow all tropicals except the ultra tropicals i guess. Just go to the local market and see what's there. Do you want to sell the fruit you grow or what's your plan there?

we use the metric system in Australia too Bangkok.

Yes i know starling but you guys still drive on the wrong side of the road  :P

But Druss should focus on the European members of the forum, they can help you getting new fruittree's. Europe also has many nursery's for tropical fruit, some even work online. We also have Italian members here.

Druss if you know what you are looking for then maybe i/we can help you to find it in the EU. If i were you i would try sweet roseapples or any other fruit which is not commercially availlable in Italy. Or jackfruit. We have a member from Spain who grows an amazing diversity of tropical fruit but he hasn't been online for a long time now. He posted loads of pics of his paradise and all grew very well.


Felipe

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Re: sicily
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 04:41:10 AM »
They will  have to be seed grown.

Why?  ???

I don't know the microclimate, soil and water in this region, but in general I would focus more on temperate and subtropical fruits.

You don't have to grow it all from seed, there's much more availlable in Europe then we know. Even durians, but they won't grow there i guess.

In continental Europe you have good sources for subtropicals, but you won't find ultra-tropicals (durian, mangosteen, rambutan...). I don't know of anybody in EU (including Canary Islands) successfully growing durian.

Radoslav

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Re: sicily
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2015, 05:01:49 AM »
As far as I know, there is a lot of nurseries in Sicily and also in nearby main Italian peninsula especially in Lamezia Terme.
Sortiment is mainly subtropical: Avocados, Citruses, Annona Cherimola, Figs, loquats, Kaki.

bangkok

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Re: sicily
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2015, 05:19:08 AM »
They will  have to be seed grown.

Why?  ???

I don't know the microclimate, soil and water in this region, but in general I would focus more on temperate and subtropical fruits.

You don't have to grow it all from seed, there's much more availlable in Europe then we know. Even durians, but they won't grow there i guess.

In continental Europe you have good sources for subtropicals, but you won't find ultra-tropicals (durian, mangosteen, rambutan...). I don't know of anybody in EU (including Canary Islands) successfully growing durian.

Well if i remember well then the member from chech republic has grown a durian in his country, or it was his friend who had a fruiting tree. He also collects duriantree's but they didn't fruit yet i thought. To be sure you would have to ask him, his forumname is VLK.

Ultra topicals is another story but we had that member from Malaga? who showed us his garden and it was amazing. He had also had some variety's from Thailand there. If i remember well his name was philippe or something like that, not sure if that was you but i guess not. He showed like 20 or more pictures, i remember thai roseapple, papaya, and much more.

One day i made a list of european nusery's on the forum, i don't know where it is now but that's usefull info for european growers.




druss

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Re: sicily
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 07:59:27 AM »
Hi All,
         I originally posted the temps in faranheit as it seemed commonly used on the forum, below is the metric.I have not researched the tropic / sub tropic nursery scene there.  However I was/am working on the worst case scenario in which a limited variety will be available. The property is a sloping coastal plot in the hills facing south so will get good light and rain.  Given what grows where i am in Perth Im looking at mangoes, guavas, macadamia, athertonia, green sapote, lucuma, black sapote, assorted citrus, bananas, peanut tree, lychee, longan, eugenias, pomegrante, canary island blueberry, Im wondering how things like jaboticabas, rambutan, anonna, artocarpus and various others would cope. obviously im not looking at theobroma and breadfruit. But im interested in knowing what people have gotten to grow out of its comfort zone.   


Climate               Jan     Feb     Mar     Apr     May     Jun     Jul     Aug     Sep     Oct     Nov     Dec
Day temp            14      15      17       20       24       28       30      30      28        24      21      16
Night temp           6        6        9        12       14       18       20      20      19        16      13       9
Water                 14       14      14       15       17       21      24      26       24        22      19     16

Also is there any standout species people would plant as a must have.

Radoslav

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Re: sicily
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 08:08:53 AM »
Sicily is famous as a source of the best blood oranges. I read, that fight for control over oranges producing farms also gave the birth of infamous  Sicilian Mafia, also known as Cosa Nostra in 19th century.

bangkok

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Re: sicily
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2015, 09:28:47 AM »
Have a look at this garden in Malaga Spain.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3703.0

Radoslav

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Re: sicily
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2015, 09:38:30 AM »
Have a look at this garden in Malaga Spain.

http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=3703.0

Theoretically Malaga and Sicily are in the same USDA zone, but I have a strong feeling that practically it is not the same, in fact I have never heard or seen such stuff to be grown outdoor in Sicily.


Pancrazio

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Re: sicily
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2015, 08:10:13 PM »
Hi there!
In Sicily you can grow a lot of subtropicals tree, but i fear, not any true tropical tree (I mean coconut, durians, mangostan and stuff like that). Regarding mangoes, they probably will do fine in your place, but they are a relatively new culture in the island, so you won't find any fancy variety: you, however, won't find any problem in adding kensington pride, kent, keitt, osteen, maya, tommy atkins, irwin, glenn mangoes to yor collection, they can be found in nurseries on the island. Maybe some other nursery in europe has a richer selection, but yet, you won't find any of the newer Floridan varieties. Regarding avocados, even for those the selection is limited but you can find at least he main clones. Jackfruits: anecdotal experiences show me that they can grow, they can fruit, but the season is too short to have them ripened. You can use them as vegetable. Breadfruit is out of discussion. Litchis grow well if you provide them a wind break. Cherimoya and atemoya grow aswell; i'm unaware about other annonas. Papaya, you have to cover them for the winter, won't survive outdoors unless in the hottest location. Longan, casimiroa, passiflora grow well. Macadamia and pecan grow well aswell. Sugarcane do grow. Bananas: you can grow all the most cold resistant varieties; You can't hope for good results with an Ae'Ae or Veinte Cohol but you will fruit without any problem A Namwah, an Orinoco (fun fact: the Orinoco are actually endemic in Sicily and some people assume they have been introduced by Arabs), Brazilian, Goldfinger, Sweetheart (you get the idea): you can find pretty much every banana available to the American market. Loquat do exists in varieties that are unavailable to anyone else in the world.
The strong point of Sicily are, of course, the citrus. Even if the Sicily is home of the best among the blood oranges, you don't have your property in a zone were blood oranges do the best results. Still you will have the possibility to get some interesting stuff that is unavailable to USA members. The most common stuff shouldn't be grown: you will find more oranges grown from your neighbors than you can possibly buy/eat. Focus on the rare/hard to find/traditional stuff. Whatever happens, don't introduce any bud wood from outside the EU. Aside the fact that is useless with all the diversity of citrus you can find in europe, potentially it can create big issues.
Don't forget that cold winter are also an advantage, so you can grow also a lot of temperate fruits. Persimmon, figs, carob, pomegranates, apricots, almonds, peaches, and the list goes on. Palms will grow but they will be obliterated in few years by the red weevil.
Your main issue will be the lack of documentation from other people, the lack of specific books talking about the growth of tropical and subtropical fruits in Sicily and the lack of programs like the citrus protection programs. But with patience you can overcome all of those.

PS: plant some grapes!
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade central asia apricots. Contact me in PM if interested.

druss

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Re: sicily
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2015, 09:44:45 PM »
Thankyou, thats excellent to hear and exactly the sort of info I was hoping for.  Do you have any recommendations for nurseries there? Have you tried growing white sapote?

Pancrazio

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Re: sicily
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2015, 07:43:36 PM »
Hey druss, yes, white sapote can be grown in Sicily, but at my place is too cold for it, so i don't grow it. However white sapote isn't very heavy in temperature requirements and its grown even further north, like in Naples or in warmest parts of Liguria. Too bad you won't find any named variety here. At a certain point the university of Palermo had 8 different clones of white sapote but they got dispersed, and AFAIK, noone of those is alive right now.

I will send you a private message with nurseries where you can get tropical fruit in Italy and Europe, give me a small time so i can gather all the relevant data.
Italian fruit forum

I want to buy/trade central asia apricots. Contact me in PM if interested.

druss

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Re: sicily
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2015, 07:17:30 AM »
Thankyou that would be great.

Jani

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Re: sicily
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2015, 08:10:17 AM »
Maybe lychee?
always longing for a JA Julie