Author Topic: Hawaiian Raspberries  (Read 2629 times)

Caesar

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Hawaiian Raspberries
« on: February 07, 2016, 01:01:10 AM »
Two species (Rubus hawaiensis and R. macraei), both reportedly bitter to varying degrees. But from what I could dig up online, apparently R. macraei has a very palatable sweet variant with large yellow fruit. Apparently, specimens were collected for distribution to plant breeders, but I couldn't find any info on them being propagated in the mainland States, or anywhere for that matter. Does anyone know where one could obtain this variant? Does it exist in any of the USDA Germplasm Repositories?

Here's the source info:


DimplesLee

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Re: Hawaiian Raspberries
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2016, 06:19:32 AM »
Oscar (fruitlovers) could probably help you find that as he is based in Hawaii? If not, my favourite people to bother for any European and North American plant is Royal Botanic Gardens in Kew - they might not have a living specimen but they are usually good at digging up who can help you find what you are looking for or where a live plant specimen could be found (I think it only means they are better at badgering other countries' Botanic Gardens staff or they just better used to dealing with inquisitive gardeners).

My past enquiries were mostly about ornamentals (cycads, various epiphytes and vines) but I think they try to help with any plant related question. Give them as.much info on the plant you are after I've noticed they get back to you quicker that way. info@kew.org is the main email address but a specific staff will get back to you depending on the type of plant you are after.
Diggin in dirt and shifting compost - gardeners crossfit regime :)

DimplesLee

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Re: Hawaiian Raspberries
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2016, 06:23:10 AM »
Oscar - isn't akala Hawaiian raspberries? Juicy but with a hint of bitter aftertaste - its found in hikes in Bird Park?! Or was that the supposed introduced invasive? I did not see much strawberry guava there (Bird Park) around 2011 so I was thinking no strawberry guava = no invasive flora in that area? So that akala was prob the native raspberry?
I should have been paying more attention to collecting edibles back then!
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fruitlovers

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Re: Hawaiian Raspberries
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2016, 03:59:19 PM »
Oscar - isn't akala Hawaiian raspberries? Juicy but with a hint of bitter aftertaste - its found in hikes in Bird Park?! Or was that the supposed introduced invasive? I did not see much strawberry guava there (Bird Park) around 2011 so I was thinking no strawberry guava = no invasive flora in that area? So that akala was prob the native raspberry?
I should have been paying more attention to collecting edibles back then!

There is a raspberry from Himalayas in the bird park. I haven't seen akala there. I think the akala is at higher elevations. Strawberry guava doesn't grow at such high elevations. Strawberry guava is extremely invasive and widespread on rainy side of the island, especially Puna.
I don't have seeds of akala raspberry right now. Yes it does have a bitter after taste, at least the one type that i've tried.
Oscar

greenman62

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Re: Hawaiian Raspberries
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2016, 10:50:44 AM »
Two species (Rubus hawaiensis and R. macraei),
 Does anyone know where one could obtain this variant? Does it exist in any of the USDA Germplasm Repositories?



there appear to be several of each.
while RH appears to have some for distribution
RM appears not to.

but, a couple of the RH seem very promising.
in the individual pages there are minimal descriptions
one i saw said juicy, tart, large berries...


Rubus hawaiensis
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/view2.aspx?dv=web_taxonomyspecies_view_accessionlist&params=:taxonomyid=32334
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxonomydetail.aspx?32334

Rubus macraei
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/view2.aspx?dv=web_taxonomyspecies_view_accessionlist&params=:taxonomyid=32379
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxonomydetail.aspx?32379


Caesar

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Re: Hawaiian Raspberries
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2016, 11:23:54 PM »
Oscar (fruitlovers) could probably help you find that as he is based in Hawaii? If not, my favourite people to bother for any European and North American plant is Royal Botanic Gardens in Kew - they might not have a living specimen but they are usually good at digging up who can help you find what you are looking for or where a live plant specimen could be found (I think it only means they are better at badgering other countries' Botanic Gardens staff or they just better used to dealing with inquisitive gardeners).

My past enquiries were mostly about ornamentals (cycads, various epiphytes and vines) but I think they try to help with any plant related question. Give them as.much info on the plant you are after I've noticed they get back to you quicker that way. info@kew.org is the main email address but a specific staff will get back to you depending on the type of plant you are after.

Thanks for the source! I'll be checking as soon as I'm able. And Oscar, if you're able to find these, chime in any time now.  ;)


there appear to be several of each.
while RH appears to have some for distribution
RM appears not to.

but, a couple of the RH seem very promising.
in the individual pages there are minimal descriptions
one i saw said juicy, tart, large berries...


Rubus hawaiensis
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/view2.aspx?dv=web_taxonomyspecies_view_accessionlist&params=:taxonomyid=32334
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxonomydetail.aspx?32334

Rubus macraei
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/view2.aspx?dv=web_taxonomyspecies_view_accessionlist&params=:taxonomyid=32379
https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/taxonomydetail.aspx?32379



A shame that they don't carry Rm. But that deal with Rh does look promising. There's a lot to work with in the bramble world for experimental breeding, and I'm tempted to start doing just that right now. Alas, I've never had much luck with seeds (I wonder if there's a trick to them). But I digress; thank you for the source, very much appreciated! Now if only I could find a source for that yellow Rm. Maybe Kew will have one or two of 'em.


On a semi-related note, I was also interested in the non-Hawaiian Rubus nubigenus, but it seems an even harder find than Rh, and according to "Lost Crops of the Incas", attempts to grow it outside of its native range have failed. I wonder if it would do better grafted on another Rubus. Does Rubus usually take well to grafting? I had info pics of it as well, but the uploader isn't working for me right now.

* Edit: The uploader is working now.  ;D

« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 10:32:09 AM by Caesar »

Caesar

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Re: Hawaiian Raspberries
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 10:33:13 AM »
So, anyone know where to find R. nubigenus? I'm surprised fruits of that size weren't more proactively propagated.

greenman62

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Re: Hawaiian Raspberries
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2016, 07:37:11 AM »
Quote

On a semi-related note, I was also interested in the non-Hawaiian Rubus nubigenus, but it seems an even harder find than Rh, and according to "Lost Crops of the Incas", attempts to grow it outside of its native range have failed. I wonder if it would do better grafted on another Rubus. Does Rubus usually take well to grafting? I had info pics of it as well, but the uploader isn't working for me right now.

Fruit - raw or cooked[196]. A loganberry-like flavour[196].
This species has probably the largest fruit of the genus, it is up to 5cm long and 2.5cm wide, fruits as large as a hen's egg have been seen[196].
http://www.pfaf.org/user/Plant.aspx?LatinName=Rubus+nubigenus

and it is known as a common form: Mulberry Colombian giant deer and black berry. Its synonyms are: Rubus and Rubus macrocarpus stipularis.
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.botanicayjardines.com/rubus-nubigenus/&prev=search
http://www.mygarden.net.au/gardening/rubus-nubigenus/8944/1

seeds ?
http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/forum/25529.html


Rubus procerus... i wonder how closely related it is to nubigenus ?
7.99
https://www.mailordertrees.co.uk/collections/all-soft-fruit-plants/products/rubus-himalayan-giant-blackberry-himalayan-giant










« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 07:45:10 AM by greenman62 »

Caesar

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Re: Hawaiian Raspberries
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2016, 10:14:10 PM »
I'm not sure that R. procerus (syn. R. armeniacus) is all that closely related. Rp is in subgenus Rubus, R. nubigenus is in subgenus Lampobatus. But thanks for bringing Rp to my attention.

seeds ?
http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/forum/25529.html

Nice source! Seems like an old post, though. Is this Axel still active in that forum? Better yet, does he have a profile here on this forum?

 

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