Author Topic: Planting instructions  (Read 7664 times)

murahilin

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Planting instructions
« on: February 12, 2012, 03:48:14 PM »
Excalibur has some tree planting instructions on their website. What do you think of it? Any suggestions or anything you guys would do differently?

Planting instructions link.

zands

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2012, 12:38:04 AM »
Excalibur has some tree planting instructions on their website. What do you think of it? Any suggestions or anything you guys would do differently?

Planting instructions link.


For my very sandy soil--
I dig a deep hole 30-36" deep. I also try to dig it out wide under the existing topsoil and grass. I keep all top soil in one bucket and it will eventually go back in the hole after rocks are sifted out.  All the nasty subsoil and coral rocks go in other buckets and are gotten rid of. They are replaced with HD topsoil. I go deep, not wide. After heaping in a few bags of HD topsoil I take the hose and pour in about 5 gallons of water, this way the soil settles downward to an accurate depth. So you don't plant your tree and then a few months later find it has sunk down into the hole a few inches to where your grafting point will get wet all the time. Bad for the tree it can rot there


Next day or a few hours after watering into the hole, I take the fruit tree and if it is potbound I cut at the bottom and sides to loosen and free up roots. I do this a bit even if not potbound. Put tree in the hole and heap up dirt to plant it and firm up the dirt. I am usually adding time release fertilizer too at this point

Know your soil profile. It is probably totally different than mine which has zero clay, is sand  and coral rock and humus organic content.
Note that I am doing this in a West Broward sub-division. Where to develop and drain it canals and ponds were dug out with all that sand and coral heaped up on the land to elevate it. Then houses were built along with 6-12" of topsoil applied along with St Augustine grass and fertilizer. You should ask yourself where that topsoil came from.  I think it was made from shredded trees and vegetation that was heaped up for a year.


« Last Edit: February 13, 2012, 08:34:26 PM by zands »

stressbaby

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2012, 07:58:40 AM »
I live in MO...so take the following with a grain of salt

Quote
Dig hole exactly the size of the container.
It is hard to know what they mean by this.  It makes it sound as if none of the dirt dug for the hole will go back in the hole.  That is not the way we plant trees.  Generally we shoot for a hole as deep as the root ball is tall, but 3x wider.  It is now considered a mistake to dig deeper than that, at least with hardy trees.

Quote
...base of the trunk...above the ground...the tree will sink below the soil line if it is planted level with the ground.
I agree.  The same thing will happen if you dig a hole deeper than the root ball is tall.

Quote
Water every day for the first month.
That will kill a tree in my area where we have clay soil.  Probably works fine for tropicals.

The other thing we do is NEVER amend the hole with compost or anything besides the dirt dug from the hole in the first place.  No compost, sand, nothing.

Saltcayman

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2012, 08:49:26 AM »
In my limited experience, planting techniques are site specific. Where I plant, the soil is a red dust on top of limestone with virtually no organic matter. I dig as deep as the rootball and about six feet out removing calcareous rocks and add either peat moss or coir to that area. In a smaller hole where the rootball goes, I add worm castings and some water absorbing crystals to hold water while the young tree gets established. This is mixed with existing soil. I water in the tree well and build a shade structure,add a little time release fertilizer and mulch deeply. Oh, and pray:)

simon_grow

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2012, 04:51:28 PM »
Planting instructions should be site and species specific, all too often nurseries give very general planting instructions which may not work for all situations.  Most tropical and subtropical fruit trees require full sun and good drainage so know your property.  If you know you have very poor draining soil, you may want to install drains to prevent your trees from getting waterlogged.  The South facing area of your yard typically gets the most sunlight.  Exceptions are if there is a large tree on an adjacent property or on public land that casts a shadow over your south facing property.  Most of us know already that fruit trees with the most sunlight will likely grow faster, produce more and sweeter fruit and will likely have less frost/freeze damage.  A little planning makes all the difference.

Plan on planting your shorter trees in the front and your larger trees in the back(South to North), this way, as the trees grow, the shorter trees will shade adjacent trees much less than if you were to plant the larger trees in front of the smaller trees.  You generally also want to plant your shorter to taller trees from East to West.  Take into consideration the final size of your trees and not what size they are at now.  In some instances, you may want to plant your larger trees in front of your smaller trees, say you wanted to plant a windbreak for instance. 

I have had many discussions with local growers regarding whether it is better to backfill holes with native soil only or to amend the soil and have come to the conclusion that is is site and variety specific.

For planting tropical and sub-tropical fruit trees in the San Diego area where our soil is typically poor draining, hard with lots of clay, here is how I generally plant my trees:

Water your trees very well several days prior to planting in the ground, I like to give my plants very dilute feeding with B-1 even prior to transplanting.  If your plants were in a protected area or in a greenhouse, you should acclimate it to the outside conditions about a month or so prior to transplanting into the ground.

Try to dig a hole about 3 times the width of the container and about 2-3 inches deeper than the original container and set the native soil aside.  Sprinkle some Gypsum on the bottom of the hole(according to the instructions) and gently work it into the soil and water it in.  Put back about 2-3 inches of the native soil and step on it to compact it.  Because our San Diego soil typically lacks organic matter, mix the rest of the native soil that you previously dug with about 1/3 to 1/2 organic soil ammendments.  Do not use potting soil!  At this time, I also innoculate my mixture of native soil/org ammendments with beneficial bacteria and fungi. 

Put about 1-2 inches of the mixed soil into the bottom of the hole and compact the soil by stepping on it.  Set your potted tree into the hole to ensure that it is about 1-2 inches above the soil line.  Remove the tree from the container and scrape the sides to loosen the roots.  If there are a lot of roots completely encircling the bottom, cut away most of the encircling roots.  Set the plant into its hole and water the exposed roots with the beneficial microbes/mycorrhizal fungi if you decide to use it.  Make sure the tree is straight and backfill the hole with the mixed soil.  Use your hands to gently tamp down the soil in the hole.  You want to compact the soil but don't overdo it. 

Water in your plants with B-1 and Superthrive (according to instructions) and keep it well watered for the next month.  If you had to cut away a lot of the roots because your plant was pot bound, you should also remove some of the branches/foliage.  I do not recommend transplanting on hot sunny days unless you can provide shade to your trees.  Build a birm around your tree with the remaining soil and mulch around the plant. 

After about a month, I innoculate the soil with earth/red worms.  I like to add worms even though most soils have them already because they tunnel through the soil thus aerating it and also provide worm castings which will help add nutrients to the soil.  It has been suggested that the chitinase in worm castings  may be taken up by the plants and any plant sucking bugs getting a taste of chitinase will opt for other plants without chitinase. 

These are just very general guidelines I follow when planting my trees and I did not go into specifics about the additional steps I include for each variety of tree I'm planting.  Always do your homework fist, especially regarding the pH of the soil each particular plant species prefers.  Most my trees prefer a soil pH around 6-6.5 so I usually add some peat moss.  I also recommend checking your pH every 6 months or so because even if you add acidifying amendments, frequent waterings can wash away much of the acidity. 

Sorry about the poor grammar. 
Simon

gabodymod

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2012, 05:46:00 PM »
After reading the planting instructions from Ex. I  have been planting my trees the same way as Ex. since I planted my first tree , with one small diff. I do not add fertilizer after planting. Results are excellent.


Guillermo.

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2012, 06:13:21 PM »
Interesting topic.
Where I am, soil it is 100% clay.  No drainage.   I dig as large a whole as I can before I give up (usually a few inches deeper than then root ball and about 3-4x wide).  Then I add store bought top soil in bottom, pack it in, add the tree ball, and pack in the  top soil and some of the looser clay around root ball.  Because of our rain situation, I try to make the top of the root ball about 2-3 inches above soil line. Then I add a mound of the original clay about 1 foot around tree, to mound it up (to keep it from getting too wet).  I water it that night and that is it.  I  add fertilizer on my usual schedule.

I am interested in the part: "Do not add anything to the planting hole, e.g. potting soil".  Why not a nice topsoil?  I always thought I was helping the roots get a good start before they had to work to get into the clay. 

FloridaGreenMan

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2012, 08:08:47 PM »
If you fill your clay hole with good potting soil, the roots will try to stay in the area with the good soil and not venture into the clay or "bad" soil. Almost like growing them in pots! I would make a mix of the potting soil and the clay so you improve the drainage.  My aunt has 2 acres in Luquillo PR and they also have marginal soil and some fruit trees remain stunted for years.     
FloridaGreenMan

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2012, 08:50:59 PM »
If you fill your clay hole with good potting soil, the roots will try to stay in the area with the good soil and not venture into the clay or "bad" soil. Almost like growing them in pots! I would make a mix of the potting soil and the clay so you improve the drainage.  My aunt has 2 acres in Luquillo PR and they also have marginal soil and some fruit trees remain stunted for years.   


I guess that does make sense.
 Thanks.

murahilin

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2012, 10:14:28 PM »
I think these general instructions from Excalibur will work for 95% of the trees they sell if they were planted in Palm Beach or Broward County but other trees in different soil types like clay and rock would probably not do well with these instructions.

I guess since most of the customers are from Palm Beach, Broward and other parts of FL with similar soil, the instructions work for most of them.

I will see if I can get them to add instructions for the rock that Miami Dade county has. Anyone with experience planting fruit trees in that rock? I know a shovel will do you no good with that soil.

natsgarden123

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 12:41:10 PM »
I have always used Excalibur's planting instructions but I think they may have changed?  They always told me NOT to fertilize for a few months and ad nothing to the native soil. Just plant and water.  On the current website they say: "After planting it is okay to lightly fertilize the tree, then continue to fertilize monthly as per the fertilization instructions below".   Any comments?

murahilin

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2012, 01:19:30 PM »
I have always used Excalibur's planting instructions but I think they may have changed?  They always told me NOT to fertilize for a few months and ad nothing to the native soil. Just plant and water.  On the current website they say: "After planting it is okay to lightly fertilize the tree, then continue to fertilize monthly as per the fertilization instructions below".   Any comments?

I think the old instructions to not fertilize was to stop people from adding fertilizer to the hole. No matter how much you tell people to not add things to the hole they will still add stuff thinking it will help when it will usually just hurt.

Since the trees are fertilized at the nursery there usually isn't a need for them to be fertilized at planting but if people want to, its okay to lightly fertilize after planting. I think many people will want to fertilize at planting so by telling them how to do it properly it will stop people from adding fertilizer to the hole and burning the new roots.

natsgarden123

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2012, 01:35:22 PM »
One more question: Is is OK for the top mango roots to be exposed when planting?  This happens a lot when following recommended planting instructions and it looks a bit scary. :)

murahilin

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2012, 01:37:15 PM »
One more question: Is is OK for the top mango roots to be exposed when planting?  This happens a lot when following recommended planting instructions and it looks a bit scary. :)

Yea don't worry about it. You could always try adding mulch around the tree after planting to moderate water loss and keep the roots covered a little without suffocating them since the mulch usually allows air and water to pass through.

Guanabanus

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2012, 04:20:37 PM »
People planting in hard clay soils have to worry about "bathtub effect":  drowning in a water-filled barely slow-draining container.   If the plant survives the poor drainage, the roots may circle as though in a container.   Our extremely sandy soils are nothing like that.

Most persons not on a tight budget, nor needing to stay within a reasonable quote, will want to dig a hole not quite as deep as the rootball, but far wider, and amend the native soil with long-lasting ingredients and non-NPK fertilizers for the deeper portion of the hole, and compost with native soil only near the top.

I recommend adding, into the native soil going back into the hole, Calcium sulfate (gypsum) for acid-pH- or neutral-adapted species, or agricultural lime or dolomite lime or basic slag for more alkaline-adapted species.  Even for species that like mildly acidic soils, some alkaline calcium sources could be placed at the bottom of the hole.  Acidic water moving down will slowly dissolve them.

Long-lasting soil amendments include charcoal, fossil humus (Humate powder), clay, phosphatic clay, rock phosphate, limestone gravel, rock dusts, diatomaceous earth, green sand, and worm castings.

Mix organic matter into the surface three inches of so out some three feet or more beyond the root ball.  Make a berm of native soil around the outside of the rootball to hold hose waterings.  Add fertilizer on planting day outside the berm--- when roots spread out there in a few weeks, they should find wonderful fertility.  There should soon be lots of feeder roots several feet beyond the dripline.
Har

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2012, 08:10:02 PM »
I dug my first hole last weekend at my new house but I didn't feel comfortable proceeding because I have 6 inches of top soil and solid limestone beneath.  I had been using the methodology of digging a hole 3 times as deep as the container. All the University of Florida fruit tree guides say to do this:

Mango http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg216
Avocado http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg213
Jackfruit http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/mg370

It took over two hours of pounding with a sledge hammer and digging bar.  I bought a cheap, light-duty jackhammer on Amazon on Monday that arrived today, expecting to have to repeat this another 100+ times (and repair rotting fence posts).  Then I found this post.  I googled what should be done in miami-dade, since I seem to have miami-dade like conditions, and found a home tree planting guide from UF IFAS http://miami-dade.ifas.ufl.edu/pdfs/fyn/tree-planting.PDF that maybe others will find useful.  They recommended the same wisdom in this post for miami-dade.
Brandon

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2012, 10:44:40 PM »
I think alot of the instructions on planting are nonsense.I think no fertiliser or mulch in ther planting hole and minimize exotic soil introduction.The whole area should be thoroughly wet through the day before and loosened as much as possible with a spade as deeply as possible.On clay a planting mound above the surrounding area should be contructed to avoid welling and puddling.In sandier soils a slight mound is still ok but on the level is fine.The tree should be thoroughly watered in and surrounded by thick mulch at least 8 inches back from the trunk.A shadecloth shelter is required for many species.

bangkok

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2012, 12:14:03 AM »
I would like to know how to plant a grafted mango tree.

The graft-joint is usually still covered with plastic and i read somewhere that you should not take that tape off. Also you should not plant the tree deeper then that plastic because the stem might start rotting then.

Can anybody tell me how they do this? 

cbss_daviefl

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2012, 08:13:29 AM »
I would like to know how to plant a grafted mango tree.

The graft-joint is usually still covered with plastic and i read somewhere that you should not take that tape off. Also you should not plant the tree deeper then that plastic because the stem might start rotting then.

Can anybody tell me how they do this?

Bangkok,  Some trees, when buried too deep, the roots will sufficate from lack of oxygen.  It is not easy to correct if the tree is too low and the graft is underwater when it rains.  Avoid spots where water stands after raining or mound soil higher than that level if you must use that spot.  Soil can always be added around the tree if it is too high.  I dig the hole, larger than the container. I put most of the soil back in the hole, leaving enough room for the container the plant is in.  I put the tree in the hole, still in the container, to verify that the soil level in the container is a few centimeters above the normal soil level on the ground.   

Grafting tape can be left on for months.  Some types will fall off from sun exposure.   Three months after grafting, it is probaby ok to remove the grafting tape.  If you need to remove it, be very careful not to cut or rub the bark. 
Brandon

bangkok

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Re: Planting instructions
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2012, 01:25:06 AM »
I would like to know how to plant a grafted mango tree.

The graft-joint is usually still covered with plastic and i read somewhere that you should not take that tape off. Also you should not plant the tree deeper then that plastic because the stem might start rotting then.

Can anybody tell me how they do this?

Bangkok,  Some trees, when buried too deep, the roots will sufficate from lack of oxygen.  It is not easy to correct if the tree is too low and the graft is underwater when it rains.  Avoid spots where water stands after raining or mound soil higher than that level if you must use that spot.  Soil can always be added around the tree if it is too high.  I dig the hole, larger than the container. I put most of the soil back in the hole, leaving enough room for the container the plant is in.  I put the tree in the hole, still in the container, to verify that the soil level in the container is a few centimeters above the normal soil level on the ground.   

Grafting tape can be left on for months.  Some types will fall off from sun exposure.   Three months after grafting, it is probaby ok to remove the grafting tape.  If you need to remove it, be very careful not to cut or rub the bark. 

My tree was planted last year and grows well so i will never take it out the soil anymore. The thing is added mulch under the mangotree and i keep the mulch away from the stem for funghi-precautions. I was thinking to put yellow sand around the trunk to make it same level with the mulch as sand does not have funghi like mulch can have, that was my thought. If i apply sand then it will be higher then the graftingtape. This tree is about 3-4 metre high so that graftingtape must have been there many years i guess.

I also have many small mangotrees that i use for scions, they are all grafted on a rootstock and that graft is 10 cm above soil level. I want to take it off so the joint can harden, i think that is no problem but i just want to be sure.