Author Topic: Indoor starts  (Read 3456 times)

PltdWorld

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Indoor starts
« on: May 04, 2013, 06:52:24 PM »
I started some seeds inside this year, but have had mixed success moving them outside.  All of my papaya (about 18) died; the guava and passfilora did fine; cherimoya has been a mixed bag.


Cherimoya seedlings... I moved a dozen outside and many lost leaves quickly and look "haggard".  I decided to keep the rest inside until I can figure out a better method for acclimating them.  Any suggestions?



The surinam cherry (right side) seeds sprouted quickly - I plan to move them outdoors in another week or so.  (Passiflora seedlings in the left side of the frame; I moved a dozen outside two weeks ago without any signs of stress, with the exception of one that didn't make it.)

edzone9

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2013, 09:29:48 PM »
I Moved My Guanabana Seedlings outside about 2 weeks ago in my front door entrance where the receive partial & not direct sun .

They all are doing great , including the ones that are in direct sunlight.
Good Luck seedlings look great !
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PltdWorld

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2013, 09:58:39 PM »
Thanks Ed - that's encouraging!  What soil mix do you use?  I used a self-made mix of local compost (45%)/perlite & vermiculite (30%)/native sandly-clay-loam soil (25%) - I'm thinking that maybe either the nutrients in the compost or the transfer into a much wider temperature range from their indoor environment stressed the plants too much.  I didn't have them in full/direct sun for more than an hour each day, but they were still subject to the highs and lows of being outdoors.

CoPlantNut

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 10:59:04 PM »
Seedlings grown inside are very "soft" and not prepared for the real world outside.  There are big differences in wind, light intensity and usually temperature and humidity swings as well.  When you first put them outside, put them in a very sheltered spot with full shade for a few days, then gradually start moving them to a sunnier and more exposed location.  It never hurts to move them to a new location for only an hour or two to start-- the more gradual you can make the transition, the better the plants will do.  How long it takes depends on how dissimilar the indoor and outdoor climate are in your area when you're moving the plants outside.

I aim an oscillating fan at all the seedlings I raise indoors; I believe it makes them much hardier when it's time to move outside.  I do live in a particularly windy climate so perhaps that's why it's so helpful for me.

It's not unusual for me to have a casualty or two if I'm moving a bunch out at once.

   Kevin

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2013, 11:10:35 PM »
AWESOME

PltdWorld

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2013, 11:50:54 PM »
When you first put them outside, put them in a very sheltered spot with full shade for a few days, then gradually start moving them to a sunnier and more exposed location [edit]...

I aim an oscillating fan at all the seedlings [edit]...

   Kevin

Thanks Kevin!  My goal was to get a number of plants going that I didn't already have, along with a couple hundred cherimoyas that would be ready as roostock for next year... I definitely want to minimize the casualties and I appreciate your advice. Using a fan makes sense!  Also the idea of limiting sun exposure.

What type of lighting and wattage are you using?  (fourescent/hps/metal halide/led?)

In addition to my indoor (flourescent stup), I just put together a small outdoor greenhouse - I'm thinking I should probably add shade cloth to help with the transition.

CoPlantNut

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2013, 01:03:58 AM »
...
What type of lighting and wattage are you using?  (fourescent/hps/metal halide/led?)

In addition to my indoor (flourescent stup), I just put together a small outdoor greenhouse - I'm thinking I should probably add shade cloth to help with the transition.

I'm currently running 2800W of LED lights in a 12x15 grow room, but I've grown plants under lights for 20 years under incandescent, fluorescent, HPS, MH, CMH and now LED bulbs.   With all but the LEDs I've had issues with plants scorching when first exposed to the sun unless they are carefully acclimated; this is my first spring with LED lights but I've had no issues with scorching yet (which is quite amazing).

Good luck with the greenhouse- you may find it easier to shade just the flat of seedlings in the greenhouse rather than the whole greenhouse for acclimation.  Put the flat under a bench for the first couple days.

   Kevin

PltdWorld

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2013, 01:09:58 AM »
Definitely appreciated and sounds like you have a nice grow room!  Interesting that your plants were sun scorched even after being exposed to MH... I would have thought there would be more risk from LED.  The shade cloth will only be for a section of the greenhouse - looks like I have a project for tomorrow morning.

CoPlantNut

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2013, 01:17:56 AM »
Definitely appreciated and sounds like you have a nice grow room!  Interesting that your plants were sun scorched even after being exposed to MH... I would have thought there would be more risk from LED.  The shade cloth will only be for a section of the greenhouse - looks like I have a project for tomorrow morning.

Not all LED lights are created equal; the ones I'm using (Black Dog LED) have 5W diodes and are much more "intense" than most others on the market which use 1W or 3W diodes.  So far it looks like they are a reasonable replacement for the sun intensity-wise, and all of my plants seem very happy with the expanded spectrum.  With MH and HPS lights you can get the same intensity, but they put out so much heat that you have to keep your plants further away (where the light is less intense) just to keep them from cooking.  By eliminating the radiant heat, LED lights can provide the light intensity without cooking your plants.

Since I switched to LED lights from HID (MH / CMH combo), my carambolas, Australian Beach Cherries, guavas and miracle fruit have started churning out fruit with no natural light.

   Kevin

kh0110

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2013, 01:18:13 AM »
PltdWorld, I think the problem here is humidity and it's a big headache for us here in SoCal. I've done what you're doing now and got the exact same results. Now, I germinate my seeds indoor with the ziploc method and once they germinate, I plant them outdoor right away so that when the new plants come out, they are automatically adapted to the relative outdoor humidity. This has worked like a charm.
Thera

fruitlovers

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2013, 06:32:32 AM »
All your seedlings look spindly to me. That is usually caused by not strong enough light source. My guess is that when you put those spindly delicate seedlings outdoors they get scorched by the sun. Solution is to increase your indoor lighting, and put lights closer to the plants. And as others suggested, make transition as slow as possible so that plants can get acclimitized to bright sun. Low moisture levels outdoors is another killer. Consider using some misters at first to transition the plants.
Oscar

PltdWorld

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2013, 09:23:12 AM »
Thanks Oscar... this is the first time I have used flourescents so that makes sense.  I will try switching up the light source and see if that improves vigor of the seedlings.  Much appreciated!

bsbullie

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2013, 09:43:33 AM »
Thanks Oscar... this is the first time I have used flourescents so that makes sense.  I will try switching up the light source and see if that improves vigor of the seedlings.  Much appreciated!
quality lights can usually be found at hydroponic supply stores...
- Rob

PltdWorld

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2013, 11:39:08 AM »
I have a 400HPS as well, but it seemed  to suck a lot of electricity and also put off a fair amount of heat - the MH was way too hot and the light was difficult to work around (too intense).  Seems that LED is worth a go.

edzone9

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Re: Indoor starts
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2013, 11:47:08 AM »
i just use store bought potting mix & put the seedlings next to a sunny window , when they get about 6 inches tall i place them outside on my front door where they get in-direct light .

But then again Guanabana Seedlings do pretty well they seem strong .
Good luck !
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