The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: spaugh on July 16, 2021, 01:09:25 PM
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Someone posted about their seeds not sprouting recently. I tried to dig up the thread but couldnt find it. Anyway I saw this on faceborg today. It basically says the seeds take 6-9 months to form an embryo and fresh seeds are hollow.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1fwZ33fJ/Screenshot-20210716-100543-Chrome.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fwZ33fJ)
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Hi Brad,
From my experience, sometimes it takes 6 months to germinate and sometimes 2 weeks
Itay
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Interesting. Cherimoya seeds look hollow when cracked open, with gill-like structures, so I wonder if he cracked open older ilama seeds to confirm the change. I didn't get a picture of the inside of the ilama seeds I cracked open, but I thought they looked more viable inside than the cherimoya seeds, below.
(https://i.postimg.cc/R38cqQ9c/IMG-20210408-092344777-HDR.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/R38cqQ9c)
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I have never experienced hollowed fresh Ilama seeds, but below method has worked for me and not only with Ilama. Tedious to setup but it works for me.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=28910.msg327223#msg327223 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=28910.msg327223#msg327223)
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It takes weeks not month in a green house or during summer. I sold hundreds of seeds to a FL buyer after one month in winter here is the results.
(https://i.postimg.cc/MX3D475Q/445-C502-C-D74-C-4-A4-B-989-F-0012961-D05-F2.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/MX3D475Q)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gnwDPxtB/59-F94-C3-C-7-D89-4-B73-AF7-E-87-F229-AFAAF9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gnwDPxtB)
(https://i.postimg.cc/ppgBVPgV/C1-CD1-D41-5441-4-FB3-970-F-2202116-FBD10.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ppgBVPgV)
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my only experience is with seeds from Raul. None sprouted when I first tried then I left them in a bag dry for over a year and then all sprouted within a few weeks of trying again.
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All Annona are finnicky in my experience-
I have some Annona senegalensis coming up that were planted in 04/20
Seen the same type of thing with cherimoya, soursop, and atemoya- once the "timer" in the seeds clicks though, generally high germination rates-
This is with no pretreatment and no particular care for the seeds to keep them moist when coming out of the fruit
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I received some ilama seeds from a forum member in early April, they haven't sprouted yet. They still look fine, though, haven't rotted. I have had various seeds take 6mo or more to germinate.
I already had soursop seeds around the same time and they all sprouted fairly quickly but they were on a heat mat. By the time I got the ilama I just left all the unsprouted seeds outside.
I scarified them with sandpaper a bit, and planted all immediately
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I found a dropped san pablo at the F&S park. When I got back home a week later I placed the seeds in a wet paper towel. Then proceeded to put it in an opened plastic ziplock above my microwave oven (the magical place). I got more than half to sprout.
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We have talked about this in previous threads . I know I have related mu experiences with fresh planted and GA3 at various concentrations, storing dry and storing in the fridge. I have scraped cut treated seeds in every way when I had enough seeds to try everything on. My advice is that immediate planting and treatment in GA2 of seeds of any age works best. Don't go too strong or long with GA3 as I did and lose some to etoliation. 600ppm for say 10 hrs is plenty. If you have arse dragging seeds that have germinated for months then dig them up. Disturb them and get sun of them and replant.
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What solvent are you using for GA3? I have GA3, but do u use water, ethanol, etc
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I recently successfully germinated ilama seeds.
I used GA3. I had a total of 10 seeds, planted 3 without GA3, 3 with 500ppm for 2 days, and 4 with 1000 ppm for 2 days.
Only 2 of the 10 sprouted, interestingly, 1 from the 500 ppm and 1 from the 1000 ppm.
It was like no seed I ever saw before. The root emerged first beside the seed, then the cortyledons started emerging. The cotyledons were very long and I had to help them completely emerge out of the seed coat. Then the seed was empty, or so I thought, but when I cracked it in half, it was still full with a white material inside. It almost looked like a bug that was cut in half. Very weird seed.
In any event, both are doing fine so far. See the pic below and notice how weird the cotyledons look:
The remaining seeds seem inert. I may dig them out, dry them for a while and try again with the GA3 in a few months. But I’ve read that a large percentage never sprout at all no matter what you do…
I’m honestly happy that I’ve got 2 live seedlings now at all…
Kevin
(https://i.postimg.cc/XrvFG0RH/40618-EE0-44-D7-4892-B8-FA-59-BBB7208049.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrvFG0RH)
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I had same experience Kevin.
It was so weird…like the roots “jumped” out of the seed, and also manually helped remove cotyledon
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Fresh, good ilama seeds are definitely not empty or hollow--- they are full of stored carbohydrates, proteins, fats, vitamins, enzymes and minerals.
The embryo tends to not be well developed yet, and often is not yet visible to the naked eye. If you can see it, you will find it near the rough tip of the seed.
I suspect that, when the seed is developing in the young fruit, that mineral availabilities, such as of Calcium, Boron, and Zinc, determine whether or not the embryo will develop normally.
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What solvent are you using for GA3? I have GA3, but do u use water, ethanol, etc
GA3 is often not the wonder drug that people think it is-
first solubilize your powder in ethanol as pure as you can find- I usuall aim for something insane like 10000 ppm for my stock solution
You then dilute the alcohol suspended GA3 in water to the concentration you want to work at (i.e. 1:100 dilution for 100ppm)
this way the alcohol in the actual solution you soak your seeds in is minimal-
GA3 helps with germination but can actually inhibit root formation so it is important to only soak the seeds for 24-72h and then remove them from solution and place in soil-
DO NOT WATER PLANTS WITH LEFTOVER GA3
it really messes with them imho
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I recently had good germination success with some ilama seeds. First i cracked open the seed slightly with some pliers, just enough to break the seal. I then soaked for about 10 hrs in a weak GA3 solution (eyeballed it but less than 600ppm). Rinsed and continued soaking in fresh water for another 10-12 hours. Stuck all the seeds in a big pot and have almost every one of those little guys coming up now after only 3 weeks!. I believe freshness of seeds is the biggest factor of germination success.
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floating and sinking sure doesn't identify the living and dead annona seeds but sinkers have a better germination rate, The manifolds in the seed make them all look wrong inside. The often cant shed the seed coat and lose their tops or a leaf at least. The frustrating thing about these seeds is that there is no formula that seems to consistently work, even with seeds from the same tree. I still think fresh planted and GA3 for 10 hours at 600ppm improves your chances but still one pots will have none come up and others will have nearly all. I have had seeds endure 2 summers in the truly oppressive monsoon tropics and then pop up and others after just a couple of weeks.
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I had given up on the seeds I planted in November, in a greenhouse. Started watering again once I saw this thread - and I have a sprout, finally. 8 months.
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Just had an atemoya and anonidium manii pop after more than a year
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I sat 100 illama seeds in a bag with dry vermiculite on my desk for 5 months and only put them in GA3
10 days ago at 800ppm for 18hours then bagged them with moist vermiculite on a heat mat at about
30 degrees celcius and they all germinated in 5 to 9 days.This is not a fluke as I had the same
result last year using this method
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I dont think GA3 is necessary.
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how to germinate Soncoya seeds?
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Someone posted about their seeds not sprouting recently. I tried to dig up the thread but couldnt find it. Anyway I saw this on faceborg today. It basically says the seeds take 6-9 months to form an embryo and fresh seeds are hollow.
(https://i.postimg.cc/1fwZ33fJ/Screenshot-20210716-100543-Chrome.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1fwZ33fJ)
:o 8)
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Necessary is a tricky word really. Does GA3 improve success in germinating ilama seeds? Without a shadow of doubt yes and I found out in repeated experiments on this species. Desirable yes if you want a higher rate of germination, necessary....not always.
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I havent sprouted that many of these seeds but the ones I did all sprouted after sitting dry for over a year. Then I put them in small pots of dirt and within 2 weeks thry all sprouted, every single one. Cherimoyas Ive done hundreds of and they pretty much give 100% germination also after sitting dry for a year then planting.
Seems unnecssary to me but whatever floats peoples boats.
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how to germinate Soncoya seeds?
My Soncoya took 6 months in a pot. No treatment.
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how to germinate Soncoya seeds?
My Soncoya took 6 months in a pot. No treatment.
8) It's been a month since I planted the seeds. Then it will be a while..
Thanks for informed!!
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I planted 12 Ilama seeds from last year and over 100 fresh seeds this year, I soaked seeds in Ga3 solution at 225ppm overnight.
Almost 2 months from planting my results have been that only 1 seed from last year has sprouted while about a third of the fresh seeds have popped. I left one tray of fresh (30) seeds untreated as my control. None of the untreated seeds have popped.
As for the tree which the seed came from, its planted on private property and the owners/ renters are impolite not wanting to help a fruit collector. I have only been able to get fruit off the ground , I am not willing to cut scions from their tree. So i will have some seedling trees in future but unfortunately scion wood not at this point.
As for the location of the tree the friend who showed me asked to keep it secret so I will stay true to his request.
(https://i.postimg.cc/CRLBFJ9b/0964-F04-D-9-A58-4-E83-9-B8-A-3-DB70-DFD3-CE3.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRLBFJ9b)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzr6FpLb/48-E81-AC3-B377-4640-A392-D3-B1529-BA060.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzr6FpLb)
(https://i.postimg.cc/t7WVDshn/7-AFE1066-E28-E-4-D79-B8-B1-1-C5-F5634843-B.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t7WVDshn)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SYFYk4pK/B6816545-C884-48-C2-B4-FA-64-FA5-B56410-C.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SYFYk4pK)
(https://i.postimg.cc/LJCqhLMw/BD924-B13-D28-B-4-A74-852-C-75-C5-AD5-FFBC9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LJCqhLMw)
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None of the seeds I planted immediately in 2021 sprouted and they eventually rotted. I just got a new batch from Raul, I am going to try Brad's suggestion this time. I am putting them in a closet to "age" dry and I'll try planting them next summer.
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Add garden supply diatomaceous earth, against grain weevils. Store seeds in paper bag.
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I'm. Planting tons of seeds now
Some reticulatas from Sri Lanka (I don't know Wich variety they have they call ramphal)
Atemoyas also ppc one
Sugar apples red and green ones
Another reticulata and Illma
I just potted them in small pots and made sure to cover them with plastic and I will. Give them plenty of time some seeds are fast some are not
Happens with all seeds of any tree
You need to be patient
Why I'm tellin you that is that in some tropical region they just threw seeds in the ground and they grow to full trees
People should understand that if you make it difficult it will get difficult
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I havent sprouted that many of these seeds but the ones I did all sprouted after sitting dry for over a year. Then I put them in small pots of dirt and within 2 weeks thry all sprouted, every single one. Cherimoyas Ive done hundreds of and they pretty much give 100% germination also after sitting dry for a year then planting.
Seems unnecssary to me but whatever floats peoples boats.
I think most people would prefer getting seeds to sprout quickly with the use of ga3, not waiting an entire year.
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I havent sprouted that many of these seeds but the ones I did all sprouted after sitting dry for over a year. Then I put them in small pots of dirt and within 2 weeks thry all sprouted, every single one. Cherimoyas Ive done hundreds of and they pretty much give 100% germination also after sitting dry for a year then planting.
Seems unnecssary to me but whatever floats peoples boats.
ihave currently many in small dirt pots reticulatas atemoyas and sugar apples and graviolas
i covered them with plastic because we have a lot of weather swings this year what do you think??,
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None of the seeds I planted immediately in 2021 sprouted and they eventually rotted. I just got a new batch from Raul, I am going to try Brad's suggestion this time. I am putting them in a closet to "age" dry and I'll try planting them next summer.
got some seeds from raul he sauid they are from 2023 season should i plant them directly ????
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Tonmake the seeds sprout use a heat mat and keep them wet. Thats all I know.
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I received some ilama seeds from a forum member in early April, they haven't sprouted yet. They still look fine, though, haven't rotted. I have had various seeds take 6mo or more to germinate.
I already had soursop seeds around the same time and they all sprouted fairly quickly but they were on a heat mat. By the time I got the ilama I just left all the unsprouted seeds outside.
I scarified them with sandpaper a bit, and planted all immediately
so we need to be patient
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I harvested green illama at 2022. and i forgot them until last month. they were in the ziperbag. well dryed.
last month, I put in the ziperbag with little wet soil. after one week, they are 90% germinated.
I don't know why green illama germination rate is high.
(https://i.postimg.cc/TKR8d6jc/Kakao-Talk-20240123-210213760.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKR8d6jc)
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I recently had good germination success with some ilama seeds. First i cracked open the seed slightly with some pliers, just enough to break the seal. I then soaked for about 10 hrs in a weak GA3 solution (eyeballed it but less than 600ppm). Rinsed and continued soaking in fresh water for another 10-12 hours. Stuck all the seeds in a big pot and have almost every one of those little guys coming up now after only 3 weeks!. I believe freshness of seeds is the biggest factor of germination success.
I had the same experience - I’m guessing 80% germinated.
I wiped the seeds down w peroxide-and then dried off. Used pliers to crack seed seal. Used ice cube tray w distilled water and Ga3 500ppm to soak- I weighted the seeds down w under a half inch stainless nut so they would stay submersed. I think the pos pressure of the water really pushes the GA3 in. I soak them until they won’t float. Then put them in promix that’s slightly moist, in a sealed Tupperware container , on a heat mat at 79 degrees. All that were going to germinate did so within 21 days.
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I recently had good germination success with some ilama seeds. First i cracked open the seed slightly with some pliers, just enough to break the seal. I then soaked for about 10 hrs in a weak GA3 solution (eyeballed it but less than 600ppm). Rinsed and continued soaking in fresh water for another 10-12 hours. Stuck all the seeds in a big pot and have almost every one of those little guys coming up now after only 3 weeks!. I believe freshness of seeds is the biggest factor of germination success.
I had the same experience - I’m guessing 80% germinated.
I wiped the seeds down w peroxide-and then dried off. Used pliers to crack seed seal. Used ice cube tray w distilled water and Ga3 500ppm to soak- I weighted the seeds down w under a half inch stainless nut so they would stay submersed. I think the pos pressure of the water really pushes the GA3 in. I soak them until they won’t float. Then put them in promix that’s slightly moist, in a sealed Tupperware container , on a heat mat at 79 degrees. All that were going to germinate did so within 21 days.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qzBhkMsv/IMG-3528.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/qzBhkMsv)
I just checked on my Ilama seeds which I planted 3.5 months ago, and none have germinated. They look shiny and healthy, no mold or anything, so I assume they’re still viable. Would it still be worth it to crack the seeds like you did, or at this point is it better to just let ‘em ride?
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Ilamas like a few species play a few tricks. Sometimes GA3 works great on a batch sometimes it doesnt. Sometimes fresh seeds all germinate and sometimes they don't, sometimes they take a few weeks and sometimes they pop up after 3 years. Sfter time in the fridge of months on the shelf germination may be higher of lower. BTW don't let the weevils get them in dry storage all together. The only certainty seems to be confusion. If you planted a pot of seeds and 6 months later there is not germination action some intervention can help. Stir them around or get some light on them and then things can change.