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Messages - pagnr

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There are also historic Citrus trees in Japan, dating back several hundred years.
In the USA there are several historic Citrus trees, such as the Parent Washington Navel, dating back to 1873, close enough to 150 years.
( You Do The Math, always wanted to say that ! )

If you take budwood from such an historic tree and graft onto rootstock, generally you will get a renewed and vigorous tree.
If you can select highly vigorous shoots from a flush or water shoots, you may even get a thorny juvenile type tree as a result.
Many of the popular varieties of Citrus are at least 50 years old, and regularly propagated by budding.
Overall there are few problems if any, with this process in producing healthy Citrus trees.
Where trees are maintained as budwood trees, regular pruning for budwood flush produces younger growth.
In many cases Citrus trees can be screened for Virus, and heat treated or shoot tip grafted to eliminate Viruses.
This will reinvigorate an old variety, and remove some of the decline factors.
Many Citrus varieties can also be renewed by growing Nucellar Clonal Seeds. These will be genetically identical to the parent, but fully juvenile.
These will essentially reset the clock back to zero for that Citrus variety.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: soil wetting agents
« on: Today at 03:55:03 PM »
Coffee grounds seem to have a wetting quality.
More so the water from strained used coffee grounds.
Don't overdo it with the actual coffee grounds on the surface of pots.
They can cause a boost in microbes, leading to clumping and surface matting, the opposite of the wetting you wanted.

Great question, I asked a similar one on this topic about Valentine.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: nature of sticky substances?
« on: March 31, 2023, 05:17:50 PM »
Citrus garrawayi, the Mount White Lime from Cape York has a very sticky pulp component.
It will really stick to your teeth, and is hard to get off, more so if you eat a few fruit at once.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Valentine pomelo
« on: March 31, 2023, 05:10:52 PM »
Valentine is not available in Australia.
It sounds like a great type from the parental varieties, but seems to have mixed opinions on the fruit ?
Any comment on is it worth the effort to chase down ?

Mostly I have hoop houses, built with galvanised post and rail clamps, the type for tennis courts or chain mesh fences.
I did recycle an old 12 foot wide glass house, with angle iron roof trusses, into a polycarbonate roofed, but plastic film sided hot house.
Woven clear plastic like solar weave is pretty durable and repairable.
You can also do twin skin " double glazing " for heat retention.
There are also some IR infra red plastic films that trap heat better.

Any idea if the D. macrantha fruit came a tree in the Townsville area?

WOW. So Mendel not only founded Genetics, he also founded Statistical Manipulation ?? Now that is a True Genius.

interesting you bring up Mendel, modern statistics shows he almost certainly fabricated his data to make dna appear more linear and less random! I think his heart was in the right place but still, bet he never expected that

Not sure he fabricated the data to get a fraudulent result, as has been the case with others.
Possibly he included results that fit best, and ignored results that didn't fit well ?
Ultimately he was correct in what he saw, and made a great leap into later understanding.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Best native type persimmon
« on: March 27, 2023, 04:07:40 PM »
I am pretty sure there are named varieties of American Diospyros.
(Sadly they never came here to Australia with the American Diaspora).
In previous threads, other people have mentioned favourite types or locations for good types.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Macroalgae -> Fertilizer Trials
« on: March 27, 2023, 12:01:00 AM »
With composting you are feeding microbes to break down organic matter.
I'm sure the fish tank change water would be of benefit to the compost microbes, but maybe more beneficial direct to plants.

Zizyphus mauritiana grows wild in parts of Northern Australia.
It is quite different to the Cultivated Jujube trees.
It is still known by some very outdated common names from Australia's past attitudes.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Macroalgae -> Fertilizer Trials
« on: March 26, 2023, 05:10:29 PM »
Seaweed has been used as a fertiliser in many regions where it is easily available.
On some of the British Channel Islands it was a big part of the fertiliser use, possibly with sheep manure. Not sure they had much else on those remote islands.
As you are probably diluting your seaweed harvest for spraying or applying small amounts of powder to soil or pots,
the amount of extra Sodium you actually apply is probably quite low.
You may want to watch out for doubling up the Sodium from other sources, ie your water supply, recycled grey water containing some detergents/soaps, water conditioners.
Otherwise unless you are going crazy, it should be ok.
Any thoughts on the actual Aquarium water, it contains fish wastes.
If you dilute it with fresh, the salt will drop.
I use our freshwater Aquarium water on pot plants when the water is changed.

A Poncirus trifoliata or Flying Dragon tree will drop its leaves in winter.
A Citrus grafted on either of those Poncirus won't drop its leaves, but it may slow or stop activity in winter.
It may also have a delayed spring growth flush, which may protect from late frosts damaging young growth.
Unless you have various combinations of Citrus and rootstocks nearby to compare, you may not notice any dormancy.

I am a bit stumped ( pun intended ) by your photos. I think the rootstock is either a Citrange or Poncirus, but neither is jumping out clearly.
Anybody else got an opinion.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Macroalgae -> Fertilizer Trials
« on: March 25, 2023, 04:56:51 PM »
The seasalt minerals in the algae are beneficial. The excess seasalt on the outside of the plant is possibly a problem. I believe it is washed off kelp before it is processed into plant fertiliser.

Flying Dragon is dwarfing, in part because it is slower growing than normal Poncirus.
Flying Dragon has a longer winter dormancy period, and that will be transferred to the grafted scion to some extent.
The winter dormancy also depends on your climate, and any extra heat or protection you give the plant over winter to bring on spring.
To answer your question in reverse,
If you grafted Myer Lemon on a more vigorous non dormant rootstock, the combination would grow faster than Myer on Flying Dragon.

I've had a Washingtonia navel for many years and I forget what rootstock it's on but "Flying Dragon" sounds awfully familiar and I think that's what it is. Not sure.. At any rate, I ordered Flying dragon seeds to try and grow rootstocks for grafts from my orange tree. I have some questions..

It should be possible to tell what rootstock the Washington is on from pictures of the trunk at soil level to just above graft union. Any suckers will make it much easier.
As you think the Washington is on FD, how large is that tree and how fast or slow growing is it ?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Yet another soil thread
« on: March 23, 2023, 02:28:42 AM »
Is it okay to use river sand that contains bits of seashells? Or can this be too much calcium?

The rate of adding super fine Ag Lime and Dolomite Lime to Peat based and Coir based pot mix is 1kg to 2 kg of each per cubic metre, when mixing the pot mix.
This is to adjust the pH and supply Ca and Mg for a long period.
This is very fine ground powder, with a fast release rate for Calciim and Magnesium.
Intact shell and large pieces are going to be much slower acting.
Really it depends on the % of shell in the sand, the pH of the pot mix, and any other Calcium fertilisers, and the Calcium in your water supply all adding up to total Calcium.
You could probably sieve a sample of the sand and work out the % of shells.
Unless the % shells is high, it probably won't make much difference.
Do you have water snails etc in your Rivers ?
We get a few shells in our riversand, snail and mussel, but never that much.

Edit. possibly the most important factor is the % of sand you are using in the pot mix.
If you are using a large % of sand, the shells will factor more.
If you are using low % sand, ( say 2 to 5 % ),  the shells will be less in the total pot mix, and will have less effect.

Alpine strawberry is available as seed from various seed companies, including different named red varieties, and also named white and yellow types.
Indian strawberry is used as an ornamental in subtropical areas. The fruit are pea sized, but not very sweet.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sea weed
« on: March 22, 2023, 04:08:40 PM »
Bull Kelp is a deep water cold species that contains high levels of plant growth stimulants. The live plants grow tall quickly to reach the light.
Apart from the other minerals it contains, the plant growth stimulants make it an useful "fertiliser".

As is the case with most "crimes" most people get caught because they tell someone else and word gets around.
If you keep it to yourself, who would know ?
Since the fruit is in the stores, the fruit you have could have come from there.
You can eat it or gift it, just don't say you grew it.

Most Citrus fruit of a known variety can have a level of variation when grown under different conditions.
If you grow seedlings of a patented type, they may be close enough to fit into that variation.
Without genetic testing, an enforcer may claim it is the same.

For a non GMO plant, say a patented Orange X Mandarin hybrid " OMH ",
it would probably be difficult to work out if your new seedling or re crossed plant had genes from the OMH, or genes from the parent Orange or Mandarin varieties.

There seems to be a few " Red Limes". 
Some of the Rangpur types are called Red Limes, but they seem to be pretty much Rangpur with orange or darker orange skin.
None of there are particularly red.
A lot of these are very similar, possibly some have been lost and mixed up over the years ?
Excalibur Red Lime is on this list, not strictly a Rangpur, but not red pulped either.

There are also Red Limes that have red skin and red pulp, a little more mandarin like with sour juice.
Anybody growing any of these ?
Some on the Citrusgrowersforum posted pics years ago.

How were the cocktails ?
Any different to using regular Lemon or Lime ?
I hear it has flavour elements of both.
Sounds interesting.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: soil wetting agents
« on: March 17, 2023, 02:47:02 AM »
Horticultural wetting agents when applied at correct rates should wet up pot mix, and as a surfactant, increase drainage
Something similar to a clean windscreen or kitchen sink. The water flows away after soap is applied.
Too much wetting agent can cause big problems with excess water holding.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bordeaux mix as Fungicide
« on: March 17, 2023, 02:40:28 AM »
If copper is sprayed only 3 or 4 times a year using copper soap or copper oxide, there is no reason worry about soil accumulation. Copper is a vital nutrient to plants. It is sometimes added to fertilizer and trees that are never or rarely sprayed may suffer from copper deficiency.

Fertilisers with trace elements contain a Copper addition. That is at a rate usually sufficient for growth.
Straight NPK fertilisers probably have zero Copper.
Spraying supplies extra Copper, it may add up depending on other fertilisers or natural levels in the soil.
Copper sprays are well known, but that may not mean you can't overdo it.
If you can, spray the least effective amount, either by formulation, stickers, or spray nozzles.
Plants in containers with pot mix might be more at risk from excess copper than plants in the ground, where the soil can act as a bigger buffer.
I once collected a lot of grape vine canes for basket weaving, but borers got to them.
When I burnt them I was impressed by the beautiful blue green tint to the flames, I guess from the previous copper sprays ?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Bordeaux mix as Fungicide
« on: March 16, 2023, 02:45:29 PM »
Copper sulfate is used as an algicide and root killer. When using it as a fungicide, it is important to neutralize its acidity (3 to 4) with lime or other plant friendly pH raising agent to a pH of 7. Low pH increases absorption by plants to possibly toxic levels. I believe copper sulfate has been replaced with other copper molecules because it is inefficient and leads to excessive copper accumulation in soil, which at high toxic levels is harmful to roots, blocks iron absorption and disrupts photosynthesis. Copper soaps (Cueva) and copper oxide (Nordox) work similarly as a fungicide with less copper and less worries about pH and toxicity.

Thanks, you raise important points.
Copper Oxychloride is used heavily on grapevines around here, the Cu issues are a concern after decades of use.
As Copper Oxychloride washes off with rain, several sprays are required per season. Overhead irrigation will be the same.
If Bordeaux spray persists better, less sprays may be required per season.
That may or may not be less actual Cu Copper applied over time, depending on the chemical formulation and spray formulation.
The same for the other copper products.
I have used Copper Oxide, seemed similar holding to Oxychloride, but that is just a just an observation.
The Bourdeaux mix proportions of Copper and Lime will affect activity of the Copper, probably the persistence on the leaves and ease of spraying through nozzles.
Highly efficient low volume spray nozzles will allow good leaf coverage without using too much spray mix. ( for all  Copper sprays ).
To dilute the amount of Copper applied and increase the stick, I used Copper Oxychloride and powdered milk as a painted paste on trunks and wounds.
Somewhere between 30% Copper & 70% milk powder to 50/50 each.
As for Copper toxicity issues, those with a few trees sprayed can collect the fallen leaves and dispose or burn/ compost and spread more widely around than just under the same tree.

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