The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: Nwflarenegade on September 07, 2022, 10:25:13 PM
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Is anyone familiar with the named varieties of white sapote and can explain their attributes? They’re one of my favorite fruits but I’d like to know the differences between them before I buy one. Ideally I’d like a variety with no bitterness, doesn’t mind the heat and humidity of Florida and produces large fruit. Thanks in advance y’all.
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Marta has written a few blog posts reviewing over 10 cultivars. Not sure how they'll do in Florida compared to California.
https://fruitsandgardening.blogspot.com/2021/11/a-tasting-of-ten-white-sapote-cultivars.html
https://fruitsandgardening.blogspot.com/2021/11/early-white-sapote-cultivars.html
https://fruitsandgardening.blogspot.com/2021/12/
Janet
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Thanks for the info Janet.
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Good luck trying to get California varieties in Florida. Overall, they seem to not be a popular fruit here, and the trees are hard to get a hold of. But I'm with you. I like them a lot, too.
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Maybe start some seeds for rootstock, then buy scions in the spring. Mark Lee was sharing scions of his favorite, Mary Lane, this past spring and member Bush2Beach had scions as well. When mine are big enough, I'd be willing to share. I'm trialing Sunset, Rainbow, Mary Lane, Campbell, and some seedlings from Exotica.
Janet
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From crfg fruit facts page:
CULTIVARS
Chestnut
Origin Vista, Calif. Wesley C. Chestnut, 1935. Seedling of Suebelle. Tree large, heavy production, fruit has withstood shipping to eastern states. Spherical, yellow-green when ripe, taste good, skin bitter. Alternate bearing.
Cuccio
Origin Fallbrook, Calif. Cuccio, 1973. Probable syn. Florida. Very quick to come into bearing. Green when ripe, taste excellent, keeps long and well on tree. Fruit sunburns if tree defoliates.
Ecke
Origin Encinitas, Calif., Paul Ecke, Sr., 1963. Single fruits,uniform in size and shape, Skin becomes bright yellow several months before maturity.
Fiesta
Origin Yorba Linda, Calif., Ray Vincent, 1973. Reliable,productive but very late cropper of rather small (1-2 inch) fruit. Pale yellow, thick skin, endures handling.
Lemon Gold
Origin Escondido, Calif., Martin Reinecke, 1958. A less vigorous tree, moderate crops, usually in November. Keeps well when ripe, can be picked immature and ripens well off the tree. Uniform, pleasing appearance; flesh quite yellow. Flavor excellent, occasional hints of lemon.
Louise
Origin Chula Vista, Calif., Bill Nelson, 1973. Nearly everbearing, Jan. – Sept., productive. Fruit yellow, medium size. Suggested for home gardens, not commercial.
Malibu No. 3
Origin Malibu, Calif., Washington MacIntyre, 1981. Fruit spherical, yellow, ripens Oct – Nov. Pick when soft. Tree is long coming into bearing. Most promising new cv.
Maltby
Origin Carlsbad, Calif., Guy Maltby, 1928. syn. Nancy Maltby. Frequently found in Florida, obsolete in California. Tree large. Fruit to one pound, irregular in shape, pointed, flesh yellow, flavor varies by season, can be good. Productive.
McDill
Origin Orange, Calif., McDill, 1968. Precocious, excellent taste, among the largest. Shape oblate, large, greenish-yellow. Bears early autumn. Tree large, grafts easy.
Michele
Origin Pasadena, Calif., Michele Montllor, 1940. Tree small, nearly everbearing. Fruit smallish, yellow, with distinct taste of caramel. For home culture.
Pike
Origin Santa Barbara, Calif., intro. USDA, 1928. Tree med. size, heavy cropper, mid-season, Large green fruits. One of three most popular cultivars of the mid-century, is still found commercially. Taste fairly good, skin bitter.
Reinecke Commercial
Origin San Diego, Calif., John M. Reinecke. Fruit irregular in shape, weighing about 5 ounces. Skin attractive golden-orange when ripe. Flavor good, seeds moderate in number. Has excellent keeping qualities, and even if picked prematurely will soften and become fairly good eating. Tree is a relatively poor yielder.
Stickley
Origin La Mesa, Calif., Stickley 1967. Seedling of Vernon,less alternate in bearing. Broad vigorous tree. Fruit yellow-green, quite sweet, uniformly large. Ripens very early, sweet even if harvested immature. Keeps well when soft.
Suebelle
Origin Encinitas, Calif., Susan Hubbell, 1931. Syn. Hubbell. The best known cv of sapote, still not surpassed in performance by others; common in nurseries. A distinct cv., Neysa was commonly sold as Suebelle from 1955-65. True Suebelle fruit is variable in size, usually small, yellow, asymmetrical, sweet. Pick when soft. Bears nearly year-round. Tree medium, for home culture.
Vernon
Origin Vista, Calif., Wells Miller, 1953. A mature tree found by him and may prove to be another, older cv. Tree large, rounded, vigorous but medium height. Fruit green, round oblate; flesh white, not becoming bitter when over-ripe. Alternate bearing, over the winter months. Performs well in northern California. Difficult to graft.
Wilson
Origin Monrovia, Calif., W. C. Wilson, 1927. Introduced then by Armstrong Nurseries and still found in collections. Tree productive, fruit flattened, flavor good, poor keeper.
Mac’s Golden
Origin Carlsbad, Calif., Charles Ramsey, 1932 A wooly-leaf sapote (C. tetrameria). Fruit large, yellow with deeper-colored flesh. The best, and least yellow, of the matasanos, preferred by some, with characteristic aroma. Elongated oval, few seeds.
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Why would this be difficult?
They’re all there. I’ve sent them north to south. Good luck trying to get California varieties in Florida. Overall, they seem to not be a popular fruit here, and the trees are hard to get a hold of. But I'm with you. I like them a lot, too.
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I would go find a grower in FL that has known varieties with no bitter.
I first tried in FL at Kampong and was pretty bitter. Not sure if it’s varietal or climate.
Grow out some seeds or buy a tree and multi graft is a good option too.
I can’t think of anyone in FL that is all gung ho about casimiroa or has a bunch of varieties in fruition .
Is anyone familiar with the named varieties of white sapote and can explain their attributes? They’re one of my favorite fruits but I’d like to know the differences between them before I buy one. Ideally I’d like a variety with no bitterness, doesn’t mind the heat and humidity of Florida and produces large fruit. Thanks in advance y’all.
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I used to have a large tree, either Suebelle or Malibu3 based on the look of the fruits. Some direct sun exposed fruits with orange color on that side. Skin was not bitter and some people didn't peel the skin. Very sweet and good flavor, and sometime with sugar crystals in the flesh. The best fruits were picked just when it gave with a light squeeze. Fruits picked when hard were useless. The biggest problem is when overripe fruits fall down making a big mess.
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WOW!!!! Thanks for all the great info y’all!
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Wayne Clifton recommended Smathers for Florida. He had two multi grafted trees, so he had trialed several varieties. He was such a big proponent that he actually gave us a tree when we were there buying some other stuff. I wish I had picked his brain a bit more on the topic before he passed. The one fruit I have tasted so far was not bitter at all even though it dropped off immature. I think a multi grafted tree is the way to go. Some varieties don't fruit well without cross pollination. If I recall correctly the original Smathers tree was part of Adolf Grimal's collection in the keys (along with a unique Jaboticaba which bears his name).
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I'm interested in this as well. I've been trying to taste white sapote for 3 years! Now I know, the Fruit & Spice Park has a tree, I will go during the season and eat some of the fruit from the ground. Lara Farms is selling Campbell & Younghans - how do these varieties taste?
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Younghans is supposed to be very good tasting. I have a small multi-grafted tree and the Younghans grafted branches are the only ones with nice fruits, hope to taste some in a month.
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I'm interested in this as well. I've been trying to taste white sapote for 3 years! Now I know, the Fruit & Spice Park has a tree, I will go during the season and eat some of the fruit from the ground. Lara Farms is selling Campbell & Younghans - how do these varieties taste?
From the website it seems Lara Farms has neither one available at this time. Whatever Campbell trees he grafted a few months ago, from what I can tell, he sold them out almost immediately. I contacted him a few times, and he would say maybe next month, maybe next month, and then it was "they're all gone." Younghans was mentioned in the past very favorably on this forum.
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I thought “Smathers “ was full on or mostly Casimiroa Tetrameria, as the leaves are super fuzzy?
Wayne Clifton recommended Smathers for Florida. He had two multi grafted trees, so he had trialed several varieties. He was such a big proponent that he actually gave us a tree when we were there buying some other stuff. I wish I had picked his brain a bit more on the topic before he passed. The one fruit I have tasted so far was not bitter at all even though it dropped off immature. I think a multi grafted tree is the way to go. Some varieties don't fruit well without cross pollination. If I recall correctly the original Smathers tree was part of Adolf Grimal's collection in the keys (along with a unique Jaboticaba which bears his name).
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I had a white sapote at the Fruit Spice park back in June that was nearly the size of a softball and had absolutely no bitterness, with a creamy caramel flavor and just a hint of citrus. It was the best white sapote that I have tasted so far and I’ve had few of the CA-origin varieties. Of course, the tree had no label that I could find, but i remember it growing right off the main path. I tried to bring back some seeds from the fruit, but I cooked them on my heating pad. If I was looking for a good variety that puts out large fruit and does well in FL, I would find out the variety of that tree.
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I had a white sapote at the Fruit Spice park back in June that was nearly the size of a softball and had absolutely no bitterness, with a creamy caramel flavor and just a hint of citrus. It was the best white sapote that I have tasted so far and I’ve had few of the CA-origin varieties. Of course, the tree had no label that I could find, but i remember it growing right off the main path. I tried to bring back some seeds from the fruit, but I cooked them on my heating pad. If I was looking for a good variety that puts out large fruit and does well in FL, I would find out the variety of that tree.
Would the white sapote seeds be true to the variety or make bitter fruit? I am going to go to Fruit & Spice Park in June to try this fruit.
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White sapote does not grow true
I don't know the Parks rules on scions?
You could buy some fruit/seeds now from CA and get your
rootstock started. By next June you will have your rootstock ready
when you sample the fruit at the Park. If it's really good then get a scion
if possible?
I hope to have Supersweet and Youghan's gold fruit next year that you could
possibly also sample. So far I only had a handful of Youghan's gold last year and
it was better to me. Also seems to be happier in the sun/humidity
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F&S Park must let legitimate people take scion wood, but I wouldn't be passed smuggling a little out from a big tree! ;) (I'm glad this topic has had legs.)
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F&S Park must let legitimate people take scion wood, but I wouldn't be passed smuggling a little out from a big tree! ;) (I'm glad this topic has had legs.)
borrowing sounds better then smuggling?
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F&S Park must let legitimate people take scion wood, but I wouldn't be passed smuggling a little out from a big tree! ;) (I'm glad this topic has had legs.)
borrowing sounds better then smuggling?
There you go!
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Maybe they will know the variety. I'd like to learn how to do grafting but I have no free time.
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Maybe they will know the variety. I'd like to learn how to do grafting but I have no free time.
White sapote and loquat are suppose to be some of the easiest to graft.
There are tons of relativity really short videos on youtube on grafting
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Maybe they will know the variety. I'd like to learn how to do grafting but I have no free time.
White sapote and loquat are suppose to be some of the easiest to graft.
There are tons of relativity really short videos on youtube on grafting
Good to know - it's definitely something I want to learn in the future.
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Jonah,
Do you have most of the varieties listed from CRFG page? If so, I need to start more seeds. ;D
On the Lara Farms website, Julian notes that Campbell was the best he ever tasted. Was this collected by Dr. Richard Campbell? The grafted plant I received was really small, so I want to make a backup before I plant it out at the farm.
Janet
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Does Fruit & Spice park let you take fruit out of the park? Since I live near there it may make sense to get a membership and then just go and collect fruit, not sure if they would let me take it out though
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Jonah,
Do you have most of the varieties listed from CRFG page? If so, I need to start more seeds. ;D
On the Lara Farms website, Julian notes that Campbell was the best he ever tasted. Was this collected by Dr. Richard Campbell? The grafted plant I received was really small, so I want to make a backup before I plant it out at the farm.
Janet
In a YouTube video not too long ago, I believe that Julian said he discovered this unnamed white sapote tree with excellent fruit at TREC (UF) in Homestead so he named it in honor of Dr. Carl Campbell, Richard's father, who was associated with TREC for many years.
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Does Fruit & Spice park let you take fruit out of the park? Since I live near there it may make sense to get a membership and then just go and collect fruit, not sure if they would let me take it out though
If i'm not mistaken, the rule is that you can pick up and eat fruit that you find on the ground. So eating it on the premises only.
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Does Fruit & Spice park let you take fruit out of the park? Since I live near there it may make sense to get a membership and then just go and collect fruit, not sure if they would let me take it out though
If i'm not mistaken, the rule is that you can pick up and eat fruit that you find on the ground. So eating it on the premises only.
I live about 20 mins away-if I had more time I could get a membership and then eat fruit there every day. Oh well-I will definitely be going during white sapote season - their website says they have several varieties!
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I've been growing out some seeds for a year now and I've noticed a few things about white sapote in FL.
- They do not like full sun when young. They yellow and grow very slowly but in partial sun they do great. I have them planted all over my yard in different conditions and the ones with some afternoon shade are doing much better.
- Grafting a seedling can set them back on growth. Make sure you are grafting on one that is pretty thick and has vigor.
- They are in the citrus family (distant cousin) and seem to get some of the same pests/diseases. I haven't seen citrus leaf miner on it yet but one plant has citrus canker. Another attracted the attention of the Giant Swallow tail butterfly and hosted a bunch of babies. They didn't do much damage, just a few leaves and now it is growing back like crazy. Here is a article on citrus canker and how it can infect white sapote. Wampee gets it which surprised me. https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/pests-diseases-weeds/plant/citrus-canker I'm praying HLB won't infect them like all the other citrus. :(
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John,
Thanks for the info on the Campbell.
Janet
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I've been growing out some seeds for a year now and I've noticed a few things about white sapote in FL.
- They do not like full sun when young. They yellow and grow very slowly but in partial sun they do great. I have them planted all over my yard in different conditions and the ones with some afternoon shade are doing much better.
- Grafting a seedling can set them back on growth. Make sure you are grafting on one that is pretty thick and has vigor.
- They are in the citrus family (distant cousin) and seem to get some of the same pests/diseases. I haven't seen citrus leaf miner on it yet but one plant has citrus canker. Another attracted the attention of the Giant Swallow tail butterfly and hosted a bunch of babies. They didn't do much damage, just a few leaves and now it is growing back like crazy. Here is a article on citrus canker and how it can infect white sapote. Wampee gets it which surprised me. https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/pests-diseases-weeds/plant/citrus-canker I'm praying HLB won't infect them like all the other citrus. :(
HLB should not infect white sapote. At least, it has not infected ours which is within 50' of infected citrus.
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- Grafting a seedling can set them back on growth. Make sure you are grafting on one that is pretty thick and has vigor.
That’s an interesting observation, I’m seeing the same thing in CA but hadn’t drawn that conclusion.
I grafted Walton onto a seedling that was at least half inch caliper with great success, and grafted Walton and Malibu #3 to much smaller caliper seedlings. Those all failed though Walton held on longer. I had to store my grafts in a much warmer/sunnier spot than I would have liked due to a new puppy in the yard. I had considered the heat and sun as likely culprits, as well as Malibu#3 being challenging to graft, but I’m seeing that those failed grafts are now low vigor, as you’ve observed.
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What do you guys fertilize your white sapotes with?
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For in ground trees I use osmocote citrus because I have it on hand for my other trees. I use orchid fertilizer for my potted ones because it's easier, balanced and on hand. My soil is almost pure sand so the in ground plants need additional zinc, iron and mag I sprinkle separately.
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I've been growing out some seeds for a year now and I've noticed a few things about white sapote in FL.
- They do not like full sun when young. They yellow and grow very slowly but in partial sun they do great. I have them planted all over my yard in different conditions and the ones with some afternoon shade are doing much better.
- Grafting a seedling can set them back on growth. Make sure you are grafting on one that is pretty thick and has vigor.
- They are in the citrus family (distant cousin) and seem to get some of the same pests/diseases. I haven't seen citrus leaf miner on it yet but one plant has citrus canker. Another attracted the attention of the Giant Swallow tail butterfly and hosted a bunch of babies. They didn't do much damage, just a few leaves and now it is growing back like crazy. Here is a article on citrus canker and how it can infect white sapote. Wampee gets it which surprised me. https://www.agriculture.gov.au/biosecurity-trade/pests-diseases-weeds/plant/citrus-canker I'm praying HLB won't infect them like all the other citrus. :(
HLB should not infect white sapote. At least, it has not infected ours which is within 50' of infected citrus.
What white sapote varieties are you growing Galatians?
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Julie, we have Homestead, Redlands, and Smathers. They have all been neglected and are not in the best location. I have decided to put more effort into them after tasting the fruit last year, though. The Homestead will set fruit without cross pollination, but the seeds don't develop and they never size. I'm doing some grafting to fix that, though. None have shown any symptoms of citrus greening and the oldest is over 15yrs old now.
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Here are some things that we have learned trying to grow white sapote.
1). They need good drainage
2). They need full sun for good fruit production
3). At least some varieties need cross pollination
4). Cold has not been a problem in central Florida
5). Varmints love the fruit
Maybe this will help some other people be more successful in a shorter time frame. :-X
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I've been growing out some seeds for a year now and I've noticed a few things about white sapote in FL.
- They do not like full sun when young. They yellow and grow very slowly but in partial sun they do great. I have them planted all over my yard in different conditions and the ones with some afternoon shade are doing much better.
Same in Phoenix. They seem to prefer to grow into the sun from part/ afternoon shade at their own pace. I lost a Vernon in the heat this year even protected, although it was already having some kind of fungal problem when I received it.
Where is everyone getting their scionwood for these? I've seen a few forum members offer but there are a lot of varieties mentioned regularly (Malibu, Santa Cruz, Rainbow) that I have no idea where to source.
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Galatians- Is your "Smathers" leaves way fuzzier than the leaves of your other 2 varieties?
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Julie, we have Homestead, Redlands, and Smathers. They have all been neglected and are not in the best location. I have decided to put more effort into them after tasting the fruit last year, though. The Homestead will set fruit without cross pollination, but the seeds don't develop and they never size. I'm doing some grafting to fix that, though. None have shown any symptoms of citrus greening and the oldest is over 15yrs old now.
Which one of these is the best tasting? Do I need two trees of different varieties in order to produce fruit? Thank you!
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Galatians- Is your "Smathers" leaves way fuzzier than the leaves of your other 2 varieties?
Yes, on the bottom of the leaf.
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Julie, we have Homestead, Redlands, and Smathers. They have all been neglected and are not in the best location. I have decided to put more effort into them after tasting the fruit last year, though. The Homestead will set fruit without cross pollination, but the seeds don't develop and they never size. I'm doing some grafting to fix that, though. None have shown any symptoms of citrus greening and the oldest is over 15yrs old now.
Which one of these is the best tasting? Do I need two trees of different varieties in order to produce fruit? Thank you!
I have not tasted enough fruit to really make a good recommendation about which is best. I THINK that would be different if the tree had gotten some cross pollination. I am grafting some branches to see if that is indeed true.
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I've been to Fruit & Spice Park many times. The Redlands variety (tree is unmarked) is right is next to the asphalt path, near the "SES2" variety, also near path, which produces small fruit (have not tasted).
I've eaten a few of the Redlands, and it is sweet and mild with a hint citrus. Maybe a tad bitter near the peel, but not offputting.
Off the path a bit but still near the Redlands is the Smathers variety (marked) which makes large, bumpy fruit (did not taste).
The Smathers sounds more like what you described (softball sized), since I have not noticed Redlands variety to be as big as softball sized.
Another part of the park has the Bonita Springs variety. To me, they taste the same as the Redlands. I've read that Bonita Springs is self-fertile.
Julie:
Membership is definitely worth it. I think White Sapote season at the park start around May and goes into June-July.
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Awesome! Thank you! Will have to get a membership & start stalking the white sapote trees around that time lol.
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Awesome! Thank you! Will have to get a membership & start stalking the white sapote trees around that time lol.
FYI: I called them, and they said membership is $25 per year for an individual.
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Awesome! Thank you! Will have to get a membership & start stalking the white sapote trees around that time lol.
FYI: I called them, and they said membership is $25 per year for an individual.
That's a bargain if you can eat unlimited tropical fruit.