Author Topic: Xie Shan- fruit photos  (Read 9258 times)

EricSC

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #75 on: November 27, 2021, 07:09:43 PM »
sc4001992,

I also notice fruit sizes of Satsuma family vary a lot.   

In an on-year, you get a lot of fruits but most of them are small.  In an off-year, for the same tree, you will get fewer but much bigger fruits.

Even on a same tree for the same year, you will get some fruits much bigger than others. 

The bigger fruits tend to be baggy and a little dryer with tougher inner cell and thick rind.   

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #76 on: November 27, 2021, 07:22:18 PM »
Yes Eric I agree they do grow with different size fruits. My Ponkan had lots of fruits last year and they were still nice medium to large fruits. This year I only have average amount of Ponkan fruits and they seem to be medium size. Yup I noticed the same thing that the bigger fruits have more puffy skin.

 

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #77 on: November 28, 2021, 04:28:47 PM »
Here's the photos showing the Xie Shan and the rest of the fruits that were almost ripe. The ripe fruits were Xie Shan,  unk#1 satsuma (with wrinkle skin), and unk#3. These taste numbers are my taste (I like it with a little acid taste). If you like only sweet with no acid/tartness then Xie Shan would be number 1 and unk#1 satsuma would be number 2.

Also note the 3 sumo/shiranui fruits shown in the cutting board, the one on the right which is the flat top (no bump) sumo has a lot of seeds, the other two on the left with the neck/bump has no seeds. So there seems to be something different with the sumo fruits that are flat with no bump.

=> Update on my comments about the sumo fruits with seeds (right side fruit). After picking a few more fruits, it looks like I had grabbed the wrong fruit, this one with seeds is a Kiyomi. I picked more of the flat shaped sumo fruits and they all had no seeds, will update with photo later.












 
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 12:56:13 PM by sc4001992 »

EricSC

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #78 on: November 28, 2021, 11:32:27 PM »
sc4001992,

Very nice pictures and comparison.  It is great to hear that your Xie Shan get 1.

It is a surprise that the Kiyomi fruits are so small.   On paper, they should be about 200 gm or more.

For the taste and ripe time, Kiyomi is about Feb-Mar, about the same as Sumo.  So, if you can do in again in Feb, you may get better numbers.

If you keep Kiyomi flowers off from bees, you might get seedless fruits.

For Sumo, are these tree fruits from the same graft?  The fruits usually don't get that much seeds.   The seedy one looks more like a Kiyomi fruit.

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2021, 11:52:33 PM »
Eric, I may have mislabeled the one sumo which might be Kiyomi. I will need to cut it open immediately off the tree next time since I know which grafted branch I took the fruits. I do have another flat sumo that I know is not a Kiyomi so I will cut it open tomorrow and check for seeds. This larger flat sumo was not from the same grafted branch as the ones in the picture. I had a lot more fruits (10) than what I showed in the photos so I may have grabbed the wrong fruit and thought it was a sumo with no neck. As I mentioned these sumos are turning color now so it will not hang up to Feb-Mar but my other grafted sumo branches with the large green fruits will hold until March.

jim VH

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #80 on: December 06, 2021, 12:54:36 PM »
What a difference a month makes.  Now the Xie Shan has much lower acid levels, only slightly sourer than the LA Early.  Here's a phot of several fruit currently on the trees:




from left to right: LA Early, Xie Shan, Changsha and Prague Citsuma.
I deliberately selected a LA Early with a neck, and a Xie Shan with almost no neck at all as a confirmation of Millet's observation that there is considerable variation in the fruit even in the same tree.
     Here are the fruit peeled and separated:

     



Top, left to right: LA Early and Xie Shan; Bottom left to right Changsha and Prague Citsuma.  LA Early, Xie Shan are zipper skinned, Changsha is very easy to peel, Prague Citsuma is very difficult to peel, although I suspect it will peel easier as it gets riper.
     In terms of flavor:
Prague Citsuma is far and away the best, although still somewhat on the sour side.  I would rate its flavor as excellent.
Xie Shan is next best, probably upper-mid range compared to store Satsumas, a bit sour.
LA Early is next, about mid range, and well balanced sweet and sour.
Changsha is last; lower mid range and very low acid, though still good enough.

The Prague Citsuma and Changsha are rather small; I suspect that's in part because I barely watered them this past hot summer, whereas the Satsumas got plenty of water due to nearby plants that needed it.  Also, the Prague Citsuma is just plain weird, probably because it's a chimera; most of the fruit is sub-golf ball sized, with two branches having larger fruit.

 


tedburn

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #81 on: December 06, 2021, 02:32:11 PM »
Very interesting fruit comparison Jim  :D, how old are your mandarin trees, and in which age/ size did your Changsha and Citsuma Prague fruit for the first time ? I also have them in ground and so I' m glad to hear that Prague tastes very good.
Best regards Frank

jim VH

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #82 on: December 06, 2021, 03:47:43 PM »
Hi Frank,
     The LA Early I bought from Stan Mackenzie and put in the ground 12 years ago; It bloomed and set fruit right away, though I picked the fruit off the first year.  The fruit quality seems to be improving with age.  It's on a Flying Dragon (FD) rootstock and is still quite small; I may post a picture in that Mandarin and fruit photo thread Kaz started.
     The Xie Shan I grafted onto an FD rootstock from its original Citrange rootstock and put in the ground 3 years ago; this is the first year I let it set fruit.  When on the Citrange rootstock, it produced rather sour fruit; the earlier ripening claimed for FD rootstock appears to have resulted in sweeter fruit. 
     The Changsha was one of 24 I grew from seed in December 2007; it is the sole survivor of a 10F (-12.2C) arctic event in 2009.  It subsequently survived an 8F (-13.3C) event in 2017 on an FD rootstock.  It first set about 6 lbs. of fruit last year, a bit over 12 years after it was started.  I discussed this hardy survivor on another thread last year; I'll probably update that in a week or so.
     The Prague Citsuma on unknown rootstock came from Mackenzie farms about five years ago.  It bloomed, but didn't fruit, until 3 years ago, when it set about 4 lbs., then bloomed but didn't set fruit last year, then set fruit again this year, again about 3-4 lbs., at a guess.  Each time it set fruit, about half a dozen were satsuma sized, the rest sub-golf ball sized.  Not what I would call a commercial fruit, but it is good for hours of entertainment.   Maybe with lotsa fertilizer and water it will do better.

tedburn

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #83 on: December 06, 2021, 04:47:43 PM »
thank you very much Jim for your detailed interesting information to your varieties I appreciate this very much.
And for me as a nearly citrus beginner compared to you and other long cultivating citrus experts these informations are very helpful, especially in our challenging climate for in ground planted citrus in middle Europe.

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #84 on: December 06, 2021, 05:24:12 PM »
Jim, thanks for nice photos of all your fruits and the taste comparison. I'm glad to see the Xie Shan is moving up in your ranking. I hope it goes to the top of your list on the next round of tasting. I noticed on my 2yr old grafted branches of the Xie Shan, none had sour fruits, all were sweet when it turned yellow/orange. As I let it hang longer it just got a little more sweeter but I did not taste any acid/tartness on the few fruits I tasted.

I'm thinking of waiting until the end of Dec before I try to taste the last Xie Shan fruits, I may have only 4 left.
I didn't know the Prague Citsuma tasted that good.


EricSC

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #85 on: December 07, 2021, 12:24:32 AM »
sc4001992,

I have a ten years old unknown Satsuma tree.  This years' fruits are flat just like yours.   They are all still have sour taste probably due to warm weather.

 

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #86 on: December 07, 2021, 05:36:33 AM »
Eric,

The unknown flat satsuma #3 in the above photos were actually from my family trees. My dad planted them over 30 yrs ago so this is a pretty mature tree. Here's more photos in the link below.
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=45836.0

I know what you mean about the bland tasting satsumas. My in-laws have 2 older satsumas(20 yrs) with the bland tasting fruits (no sweet or acid taste) and it only gets sweet if you let it hang until Jan-Feb here in CA. The unknown flat satsuma #3 is much better tasting in the early stage (skin color turns yellow as in my photos above), still tastes sweet but it does have acid taste. As the fruit hangs longer the acid taste disappears and it is only sweet. But the bad thing with these satsuma fruits is that the shelf life is very short, maybe 3-5 days on the counter before it starts to go bad/mold. You can keep it longer in the refrigerator of course but I don't have the space.

For my taste, the unknown #1 (bumpy skin) is my favorite so far. The fully ripe fruit is very sweet with a little tart/acid. This may be a mutation from my grafting on the Chandler pummelo rootstock since it doesn't match any of the CCPP varieties I grafted.

I hope I still have one unk #1 fruit left on the tree when I pick the Xie Shan at the end of December for my final comparision before the fruits fall off.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2021, 05:42:12 AM by sc4001992 »

EricSC

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #87 on: December 07, 2021, 06:46:14 PM »






Photo 1 is the ten years old unknown Satsuma.  The fruits are flat and still some sour taste.

Photo 2 is a fruits on a small Owari Frost Satsuma tee.  The tree had about ten fruits in early summer but they were removed.   The fruits generally are bland.  I used it to graft other varieties.

Photo 3 are fruits on a Clementine tree.  To get seedless fruits, bees have to be kept off.   Without cross pollination, it produce fewer but good fruits.  The fruits have somehow richer but different flavors than Satsuma with tender segment. 



sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #88 on: December 07, 2021, 07:21:54 PM »
I like the Fina Clementine (VI-518), seeds are few but the seeds are not in the center of the fruit, only citrus that I have seen such a thing. Fruit tastes a different taste than satsuma as you said, is it richer?

EricSC

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #89 on: December 07, 2021, 11:11:48 PM »
sc4001992,

The trees I have are Algerian clementine, the original variety.   I just grafted some Clemenules  on them but don't expect too much difference.  I also grafted Pixie and Xie Shan on them.

The fruits ripe at or after Christmas but can hang on tree much longer than  Satsuma fruits do.   They taste richer (or more tasty) than Satsuma,  same or sweeter than Satsuma because they can hang on tree longer without baggy or dry.   The skin are thin and easily be peeled.   The inner sections are easily separated with tender cell which don't get tough.   The people tasted both all prefer clementine.

The drawbacks:
The fruits will have a lot of seeds if bees help pollinations.   If cross pollinated, the fruits will have the tastes and seeds from the pollen.  (you can use it to develop new varieties)
If not cross pollinated, the tree bears fewer fruits.   Commercially, chemicals are sprayed to increase the fruits bearing.
Leaf miner really love this tree.

Millet

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #90 on: December 08, 2021, 02:40:10 PM »
Yes, Clementine's are sprayed with Gibberellic Acid for more production.

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #91 on: December 08, 2021, 03:37:44 PM »
Eric,

Yes, I hear Nules Clemintine tastes good from Janet. I might add that one to compare the taste with my Fina Clementine. I have Fallglow which has a lot of fruits and hangs long, many seeds, and it is on the sour side with some sweet taste. I only keep the Fallglow because it ripens earlier than the other mandarins (Oct-Dec) so I can eat some fresh fruits starting in Oct-Nov.

Your Clemenules/Nules is a mutation of the Fina Clementine so it will taste good. I had my Fina Clementine for over 5 yrs and the fruit taste is always consistently very good. I have not seen much leaf minner problem with my Clementine fruit tree but do see some on my other trees but only on the new growth leaves.

EricSC

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #92 on: December 08, 2021, 07:27:31 PM »
sc4001992 and Millet,

Yes,  Gibberellic Acid can be sprayed for more production. It can be purchased from Amazon or Ebay.

I looked web for Nules' info but could not find much.  Yes it is a mutation from Fina but not as sweet as Fina.  For Nules, I guess the followings may still be needed:
1, provent bees to pollinate
2, manage the alternative bearing (it is one of clementine's problem).

If it shows better quality and performance, will gradually replace all the clementine branches by Nules.

jim VH

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #93 on: December 28, 2021, 12:16:32 PM »
My last post on this particular thread.  The impending arrival of an Arctic front motivated me to pick the last of my Satsumas, which were LA Early, Xie Shan and Prague Citsuma.  I also snagged a couple of 'Wonderful' Peels from a Christmas party.  In terms of taste comparison, the results are:
     LA Early, good.  The quality seemed to have peaked in early December, and remained constant since.
     Xie Shan, very good.  The quality has improved greatly and is almost excellent.
     Prague Citsuma, excellent.  The quality has also improved greatly.  It also peels more easily   
     'Wonderful' Peels.  Verdict: poor.

I finished the last Changshas in early December, the flavor was becoming rather bland at that point and deteriorating.

No pictures of the fruit this time, since there is nothing new to see, but, going with the title of the thread, here's a picture of my Xie Shan tree from early December, nestled in its winter shelter:


 


For comparison, here's the LA Early:




And finally, three of the Satsumas after the snow arrived, after midnight Christmas night:




Temperatures won't be too bad with this stalled out front; highs in the low thirties, lows in the twenties, but it's possible to see a couple nights in the upper teens when the skies clear, at which point I'll turn on the thermostatically controlled C9 Christmas tree lights.  Temperatures should moderate back to cold rain in a week.  Temperatures are a few degrees colder up around Puget Sound, including Olympia and Seattle.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2021, 03:11:29 PM by jim VH »

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #94 on: December 29, 2021, 03:15:11 AM »
Wow, nice photos of your Xie Shan, and I didn't know you need to protect the trees since you get snow where you are. I like the wooden cover you made to protect the trees. I will need to consider grafting a Prague Citsuma on my tree.

poncirsguy

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #95 on: December 29, 2021, 10:53:34 PM »
I saw those wooden boxes and I was thinking Beehives

jim VH

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #96 on: December 30, 2021, 11:01:39 AM »
Yeah, I'm about a thousand miles north of Southern California.  In fact, I'm further north than Detroit and Ottawa Canada.  The only things that save the PNW from nonstop citrus killing cold is the proximity of the Vancouver-Portland area to the Pacific 0cean 70 miles away, and the Cascade Mountain range, which shunts most of the Arctic air to the east, where it belongs.  Occasionally though, every 3-5 years, the cold breaks through and we get an event down to 10F (-12C).  The present snow event turned out to be pretty humdrum.  Still, the shelters for tender citrus, like Satsumas, are needed for such rare events.
     They're made out of the repurposed concrete form boards, which I used to build my raised vegetable beds, one of which can be seen to the right of the snow picture.
     I thought of getting a beehive once, but there are plenty of both wild and honeybees around.
     The Prague Citsuma is a very strange plant, and not terribly prolific.  Below is the entire two pound crop, from a tree twice the size of the LA Early.  The LA Early had sixteen pounds of fruit.



They tend to the rather small, but I didn't really water it much, despite th record heat we had this year.  I did water the bleep out of the Satsumas, and they produced huge fruit, so I'll try the same with the Prague Citsuma next summer, and see if their size approaches that of the Xie Shan or not.

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #97 on: January 03, 2022, 10:30:00 AM »
Here's some update on the taste of my Xie Shan fruit. Just picked this fruit over the weekend.

Compared the taste with some other mandarins I that were ripe now.




The Unknown#1 Satsuma and Xie Shan were the best tasting. Very sweet with no acid taste.




This second group taste test resulted with Unknown#1 Satsuma as the top tasting so the Xie Shan would also be better tasting than any of these (2-7).

« Last Edit: January 03, 2022, 10:38:07 AM by sc4001992 »

Millet

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2022, 12:17:30 PM »
Evidently  the Valentine pummelo was not fully mature, as the Valentine in the picture has not colored up to a deep purplish red.

sc4001992

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Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« Reply #99 on: January 03, 2022, 06:49:02 PM »
Millet, yes you are correct about the Valentine. I noticed last year the fruit doesn't get fully ripe (redish blush flesh) until end of Feb here. I don't know what variety my Tony1_Pomelo is but it seems to always have a larger fruit than the Valentine and the flesh colors up about 1 month sooner than Valentine. Both the Tony1_Pomelo and Valentine has similar flesh texture and flavor (juicy, sweet). This year my Valentine fruits were on the smaller side.

 

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