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Messages - pagnr

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1
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Best seedling citrus for Wet Lowland Tropical areas?
« on: June 08, 2023, 05:10:34 PM »
Other PNG Citrus are the Papuan Citron and Citrus macroptera ( related to kaffir lime / makrut ).

Ugli, Temple and Ortanique are Jamaican in origin. Ortanique is also known as Topaz here.

King ( King of Siam ) mandarin is from Thailand, and other related types from Vietnam.
Many of the original parents of modern Mandarins and Tangelos are from S E Asia.

2
Citrus General Discussion / Re: The Situation on Citrus Greening? Does Florida Still Produce OJ?
« on: June 08, 2023, 05:01:45 PM »
You make a good point, but in this case the disease did come from China.

Makes sense if Citrus came from China. Some of the species evolved there. Pest and Diseases also.
Some modern cultivars are even called Mandarins !!!

It seems most of rutaceae can host psyllids and many can get HLB, but it doesn't seem to do anything to them. HLB seems to specialize in mainline citrus.

Murraya is a very popular ornamental in Australia, and also a potential problem.
Many other wild Rutaceae, like Microcitrus, Acronychia, Flindersia, just to name a couple.

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Georgia's reduced Peach crop because of warm winter.
« on: June 08, 2023, 04:46:53 PM »
This last winter with extremes and days of extremely warm weather confused some of my mango trees.

Similar problems here in Australia in some places. I have Apples and Fig fruit ripe on the tree in winter.
I get around a bit to peoples yards for work, and there are a lot of figs with extra crops this year.
Orchard growers were complaining that the stone fruit season was way out, and varieties were going to miss the Xmass sales window.
Also variety ripening  times were overlapping more, causing a glut, instead of a stretched season.
A mild wet winter also brought fungal problems, and fruit fly surviving thru winter to kick off their attacks again.
Grapes had similar problems with fungus and delayed bud burst and flowering, then summer rains and mild weather slowed ripening down again.
Many grape crops were a write off.
This type of situation did happen in the past, but if it occurs more frequently and repeatedly in the future, it will be the end of some farms.
The success of this area is based on being in a dry semi arid climate, hinting into subtropical.
Irrigation from the Murray River allowed water to be applied in a controlled timed fashion over normally dry summers.
Rain events during fruit ripening season are not welcome in most cases.

Our local Catholic Priest ran 2 churches, one in the irrigated grape and citrus area, and another in the grain growing area, about 50 km apart.
On any Sunday, he would be praying for rain in one church with one parish, and praying for no rain at the other church a few hours later.
At some point in the year he would swap the prayers around, so that the fruit farmers got rain, but the wheat farmers did not get any during their harvest.
Some people blame Climate Change for recent weather events, but it is interesting to note that the priest did eventually retire,
and the parishioners merged and did start all using the one church ??

4
Citrus General Discussion / Re: The Situation on Citrus Greening? Does Florida Still Produce OJ?
« on: June 07, 2023, 04:10:40 PM »
Huanglongbing, China? Seams like there's some bad stuff coming in from China lately... Or maybe I am just to cynical..

Maybe a leap too far ?
Huanglongbing is just the Chinese name of a widespread Citrus disease.
I would be more inclined to blame the Romans. So many plant and animal disease organisms have Latin names !
As for Huanglongbing, it is more commonly known as HLB. Blame the Corporations ?
Interesting that the Australian Citrus species have resistance to HLB, even though we don't have the bacteria that cause it or the insect vector.
Maybe something carried from the ancient past in the plant genes.
A very strong case for the conservation of ecosystems and plant species.
Who would have thought ' Finger Limes " could be so important to the future of the Orange Juice Industry ?
You never know what else you may need from wild plants in the future ?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2023-05-30/gympie-native-lime-fighting-citrus-disease/102386570?fbclid=IwAR3lAZ583jDubc6ZG9VFl-uOhBUbCSssV0902qZSru_iW0K2KC2bwdY7GQE

5
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: cultivars, nobody knows
« on: June 04, 2023, 09:41:28 AM »
They looked at me like I was an idiot when I asked them what variety of Jackfruit it was.  Based on taste and appearance though I'd say they're selling multiple varieties.

How about the style or flavour of Jackfruit, ie crunchy, bubblegum, orange etc Maybe exact named cultivar is too broad.
For some fruits, the country of origin may be meaningful to people from other cultures ie Thai, Vietnamese, Cambodian.
They would know well the fruit types from their own country, and those from neighbouring countries in SE Asia.
Possibly Durian is the exception where named cultivars are known and sought out.
I have always found that a knowledge of fruit and interest in other cultures around fruit to be a genuine point of contact, even if I too look like an idiot at times.

6
Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Chilean Nut trees - Gevuina Avellana
« on: June 03, 2023, 04:24:19 PM »
Geuvina is in the Proteaceae family, and in the group with Macadamia.
You could investigate Macadamia growing problems, or Proteacea problems and the solutions.

7
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Happy donut day
« on: June 03, 2023, 04:12:43 PM »
Krispy Kreme came to Australia about 10 years ago. It was a big hype at the time. They are sold about 100 km from here, so we sometimes get them if we are going past.
Australia also has food vans selling hot strawberry jam filled donuts. They are flat tennis ball sized, not donut shaped.
( After we closed the Hole in the Ozone Layer, we then closed the Hole in the Donut. ).
Pineapple icing glazed donuts from 7-11 were very popular, especially with pot smokers with the late night munchies.

8
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: What garcinia tastes most like Purple Mangosteen? Zone 9b Bay Area Ca
« on: June 03, 2023, 04:11:35 AM »
I have tried 3 wild Australian Garcinias. I like G. warrenii,  (sour but a lot less than the Yellow mangosteen.). No others I have tried are much like " The Mangosteen ".

9
Citrus General Discussion / Re: " Largest collection of Citrus fruit trees in the World" Arboretum PapuaKeikaha?
« on: June 03, 2023, 04:05:54 AM »
Thanks W. that is interesting information. Any more info about what is in the collection ?

10
Citrus General Discussion / Re: " Largest collection of Citrus fruit trees in the World" Arboretum PapuaKeikaha?
« on: June 02, 2023, 07:41:44 PM »
One of the Australian collections has about 10 different distinct Pummelo varieties, and well over a hundred Orange varieties.
In the Oranges, a good number are Navel Orange varieties ( Late Navels, Limb sports etc ) and a lot are Valencia selections.
In a way " more of the same ".
That leaves less than 50 % unique Orange varieties in the collection.
It would possible to have a very diverse Citrus collection, with lower numbers in the collection.
Or a very large collection with less unique / diverse varieties.
I am sure that many members on this forum have highly diverse and unique Citrus collections, with some varieties not widely known or represented elsewhere.

11
Citrus General Discussion / Re: " Largest collection of Citrus fruit trees in the World" Arboretum PapuaKeikaha?
« on: June 02, 2023, 04:47:55 PM »
It would certainly be interesting to get the Arboretum list, and which organisation it disconnected with ( or private collection ).
https://tahititourisme.pf/en-pf/activities/points-of-interest/arboretum-papua-keikaha-ua-huka-en-en-pf-3438682/

quote
A tree nursery with different varieties of fruit and forestry trees and a genetic resources conservatory of citrus fruits, including a hundred or so species from Corsica.

Maybe it is part of the Citrus research based in Corsica ?

12
Citrus General Discussion / Re: " Largest collection of Citrus fruit trees in the World" Arboretum PapuaKeikaha?
« on: June 02, 2023, 04:43:22 PM »
Quote from: Bush2Beach on June 02, 2023, 03:48:51 PM

How can this statement be true? The largest collection of Citrus fruit tree's in the world are at an Arboretum on Ua Huka Island , Population 674 , in  the Marquesas Islands? Hmmmmm


https://tahititourisme.pf/en-pf/islands-and-archipelagos/marquesas-islands/ua-huka/


Maybe the 674 people each all have a different Citrus tree ??

13
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Very Unusual Looking seedlings from Australian Round Lime fruit
« on: June 02, 2023, 04:38:48 PM »
Yes definitely Juvenile leaves, and long and strap like, as usual for C. australis.
Being in Australia, I have collected and grown some seed from the wild around Brisbane.
Can't say I have had seedlings that look exactly like those in the pics.
Also have a feeling that the leaves should be slightly more pointed than round ended.

14
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Very Unusual Looking seedlings from Australian Round Lime fruit
« on: June 02, 2023, 11:46:22 AM »
They do look a little unusual. Are they under strong grow lights that could compact growth/ short nodes ?
Each individual leaf looks a little different to the australis seedlings I have grown before.
I will double check some of my seedlings for leaf shape.
You could try tasting a leaf from the seedling and the seed tree to see if there is any strong difference indicating a hybrid.

15
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« on: June 02, 2023, 11:31:38 AM »
Quote from: roblack on June 02, 2023, 10:54:19 AM
Quote from: pagnr on June 02, 2023, 03:19:17 AM
Quote from: achetadomestica on June 01, 2023, 11:51:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDWq7-eP5sE

I don't think Jordan Peterson should be in this section "Tropical Fruit Discussion".
He really should be in the " Temperate Fruit Discussion".
along with all the other nuts.

lmao!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zetS51I0WwU

16
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« on: June 02, 2023, 03:19:17 AM »
Quote from: achetadomestica on June 01, 2023, 11:51:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDWq7-eP5sE

I don't think Jordan Peterson should be in this section "Tropical Fruit Discussion".
He really should be in the " Temperate Fruit Discussion".
along with all the other nuts.

17
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« on: May 28, 2023, 04:51:36 PM »

Just out of curiosity, if the OP of this thread had instead posted some pictures of yellowing citrus leaves and asked "is this citrus greening" and the first reply had been somebody saying that citrus greening was a conspiracy theory by Big Mango, and then people here had correctly called them out for being chock full of crap, you wouldn't be calling for the thread to be frozen, would you? Honestly if that were the original exchange, the responses in here would seem kind of tame, eh?

Just because something has unfortunately been politicized, doesn't mean that it isn't extremely relevant to what we're all trying to do here, i.e. grow fruit trees.

We don't have Citrus Greening in Australia  as of yet.
How might it get here ?
We are still importing Citrus fruit from USA. Possibly low risk / zero risk with treatment, but who knows.
Australia exports Citrus to USA in your off season, and imports in our off season. The Gap is not that great. The profits must be bigger.
A few years ago exports of Citrus to USA took a dive. The local industry went into local promotion and begged locals to buy local Citrus fruit.
Funny that they didn't ask that previously when they could sell their fruit overseas ??
Citrus canker got into the Darwin area some years back. Suspected by contaminated tools from farm workers who came in from overseas farms.
Another outbreak linked to illegally imported budwood used to start a major orchard in QLD.

Not a "conspiracy theory" as such  but the global movement of produce and workers is linked to the economic forces that further contribute to Climate Change,
above that of each persons individual consumption of goods and services and contribution to the atmosphere.
This was clearly illustrated during Covid, when supply chains went to near breaking point. Goods could not easily be moved interstate.
Another interesting case was here was when a disgruntled worker put sewing pins into punnets of strawberries. ( ps this is a strange case, want really happened is murky).
Basically the whole supply of Strawberries in Australia was shut down because they all come from 1 or 2 large farms in QLD, and trucked Australia wide.
A similar case with Canteloupe melons, Blueberries etc. Totally shut down due to contamination issues on one or two farms.
Local small scale producers of fruit and vegetables cannot often supply their local supermarkets.
It is well known that fresh grapes from this area, travel to Melbourne for supply/logistic reasons, then travel back to our shelves.
If tackling Climate Change addresses some of these issues, it will be a good thing.

18
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Water accumulation in your neighboorhood
« on: May 26, 2023, 06:30:00 PM »
Quote from: Calusa on May 26, 2023, 03:53:20 PM
Quote from: Julie on May 26, 2023, 03:41:37 PM
Is anyone seeing a lot of (or more than in the past) water accumulation in your neighborhood?  My street never had this issue before, I specifically bought a house that wasn't in a flood zone, but this rainy season is different.  Huge puddles are flooding the streets.  It seems like climate change is here.  Also the cold weather today is strange for this time of year.

Julie, if having puddles in Miami means climate change is there, then climate change isn't 350 miles away in St pete, where there are piles of dry sand that's been blown freely by the wind because we have almost no rain at all. What used to be our lawns is now a crunchy mass of dead matter that sounds like you're walking across corn flakes.  ;D

That is Climate Change, the two events are linked.
The rain and weather patterns change or shift in time or geography, or the drought / rain cycle frequency changes.
Last Year was a very wet year here in Australia, this year it is already much drier, little rain.
Also the rain pattern here has move from winter rain to summer rain, similar to further north.
Disaster for grape and stone fruit farmers, with increased fungi and moulds.

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: USDA says silicon helps citrus
« on: May 26, 2023, 06:18:53 PM »
Quote from: David Kipps on May 26, 2023, 07:14:10 AM
I have not understood how silica (like what composes a chemist's inert glass flask) can also be bioavailable such that plants like horsetail incorporate it in their tissues.

How about Fe Iron. It is used to make steel, but is also a component of our blood.
Most of the other minerals in our body also exist as solid rock minerals.
Calcium ends up in bones and shells, but also in other forms in the body.
Glass is inert for our perceivable time frames ? ( eye frames if you wear glasses ?? )
I have heard that a glass bottle is actually melting as you hold it, just takes millions of years to do so.
( Except if you are in a Kombi Van with a bunch of Hippies, they can sometimes see the bottle melting. )

20
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Breeding citrus what affects things
« on: May 26, 2023, 04:19:26 PM »
It was what I needed, thank you very much!

Thanks for that betsyjolas.

Please also see Walts expansion of the info in his post above.
Quote from: Walt on May 01, 2023, 01:18:27 PM
Pagnr gave a lot of useful information.  I want to add a bit more.
He gave an example of a triploid hybrid with A, B, and C sets of chromosomes.  And he treated them as if each set stayed together.  In fact each set has 9 chromosomes  A1, A2, A3, etc.  B1, B2, B3, etc.  and the same for set C.
A1, B1, and C1 chromosomes are similar having evolved from an origional ancester X with chromosomes X1, X2, X3, etc.
A1, B1, and C1 are still enough alike that one can replace another and still be viable.  But they will be different enough that some, about 1/9, of the traits, will be from the the species that donated that chromosome.  So any pollen grain should have a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. 8, and 9 but not always from the same species.  One might be A1 B2 C3 A4, B5 C6, A7, A8, B9. o any other combination having one chromosome of each number.  A few of the combinations might not be able to survive, but most will.  A few will be what you had hoped for, or at least a step in the direction.  Most are rejects.

Now another complicacation.  A1, B1, and C1 chromosomes don't stay as they were when you started.  During the formation of pollen and egg cells crossover happen.  I don't know how often they happen in citrus but the crops I have worked usually have about 2 per chromosome per generation.

chromosome from one species has genes
ABCDEFGHIJKL

chromosome from a different species has genes
abcdefghijkl

after a crossover you have
ABCDefghIJKL
abcdEFGHijkl

This exchange usually happens on each chromosome pair per generation, in a different location each time.  So the deck slowly gets shuffled/



21
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Big problem with bees
« on: May 26, 2023, 04:00:52 PM »
Quote from: bussone on May 24, 2023, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: Bananimal on May 16, 2023, 02:48:01 PM
Went to use the Weber kettle BBQ and discovered a huge hive of bees taking up 80% of the space between grill and cover.

Any ideas on how to deal with it????

Dan

Weber has a solid warranty.  ;D


I think you could sell that " retired bbq / bee hive " to some Vegetarians.
As a vegetarian myself, I find it amusing.

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Table of citrus cold hardiness and %zygotic seed
« on: May 26, 2023, 04:33:34 AM »
It might be useful to present the info in various ways, like increasing cold hardiness, as well as % zygotic seed in different tables ( or a search criteria ).

23
Citrus General Discussion / Re: USDA says silicon helps citrus
« on: May 26, 2023, 04:24:09 AM »
Is this in response to Greening / HLB ??
Interesting how this is now accepted and promoted by mainstream Ag.
20 years ago this would have been a fringe kook idea.
Silicon is an essential plant nutrient, not often present or accounted for in many fertilisers.
It has been well recognised in many alternative / organic agriculture circles.

24
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Wondering if anyone can ID this Australian Nutbush ??
« on: May 25, 2023, 05:47:34 AM »
Wondering if anyone can ID this Australian Nutbush ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkzllccJ0Sw

25
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Can budwood from the CCPP be cloned?
« on: May 24, 2023, 03:09:47 PM »
Quote from: Pandan on May 22, 2023, 10:06:12 AM
I'm thinking of creating an aerocloner.

I do not have the rootstock to graft all the varieties I want and frankly I'm nervous of grafting as I've never done it.

I don't do much grafting. I mainly do chip budding and t budding which are much simpler.
I have also used grafting machines, and found them quite useful.
They are relatively inexpensive on Ali Express. Along with budding knives and tape.
You still need some skill in working out where to make the cuts and using the budding tape.
That comes with practice. You need to get your eye in,  as they say and that only comes with repeated attempts.
Same with using the tape, after a while it becomes automatic.
Things are much simpler since Buddy Tape and Para Film ( nursery type ) came along.
I suggest growing out some Citrus seed like lemon or valencia orange or tangelo, and practice on them.
You can just graft a scion from each seedling back to itself for practice. Or cut a bud stick from one seedling etc.

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