Author Topic: Golden Queen Mango?  (Read 42560 times)

bsbullie

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2012, 07:04:10 PM »
Making another trip State side, in a few weeks, and just checking to see if there are any sources for this mango in Fla.  I know my chances are slim but what the heck, gotta keep on trying.
I am not sure, and even have my doubts, this mango is truly available in the states, whatever it really is....
- Rob

bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2012, 01:51:45 AM »
Hi everyone,
I'm positive that the Golden Queen of Taiwan is not the Ivory of Thailand. I have eaten the Golden Queen in Thailand many times and it is never as slim/narrow as an Ivory. Funny thing when fruits are imported to other countries their original/names names are usually lost. Not always, though >> Nam Doc Mai, etc.

The Ivory is probably not called "Ivory" in Thailand (at least as far as I have seen). Mangoes in Thailand have Thai names, so I'm pretty sure I've eaten an Ivory over the course of a year there (mango binge for the entire time!) but I just didn't know it.

The Golden Queen on the other hand, is labeled as "Taiwan mango" in upscale Paragon-International Market, in Bangkok. The fruit tag on the mangoes have "Golden Queen" written on them in impossibly small letters. The fruit tree nurseries in Chatuchak have the Taiwan mango labeled as "Kim Hong, Jing Hwong, Jin Hwang" probably because the Thai language is phonetical, with complex tones, and with an even more complex alphabet-- which does not transfer over to English easily. Adding to the confusion, the Taiwanese keep improving their strains of Golden Queen mangoes via annual mango competitions, and have read of several improved strains grown locally in Taiwan. This is all, of course, IMHO and experience.

I do have two seedlings of the Golden Queen BUT sorry to report that they are most certainly monoembryonic in every instance I have seen (around 12 seedlings total grown in Thailand) and under my local conditions, the seedlings struggle a bit. Low/moderate anthracnose resistance but very vigorous. Mine were both stunted severely by grubs recently. Heaven weeps.... Now I am trying to initiate multi-rootstock to increase vigor... I just started with them, so we will see what I have in a few years... or maybe 20?

Greenthumb on eBay sells Golden Queen (or something very very similar) from time to time... Taiwan mango...Kim Hong.. Jin Hwang...Jin Hwong... who knows what is being sold by who anymore? I kid..LOL


I eat mango's in Thailand for 10 years but never had Ivory or Golden Queen. I have seen them in Siam Paragon supermarket but i won't buy it there. Supermarket mango's always taste boring so i prefer them from the markets.

I think i also have a plant from Kim Hong but that should be my purple mango which never flowered so far. Thai don't label their mangotree's on the wholesale places so they can sell me anything and i will find out what it is many years later. I bought that Kim Hong for 500 baht (which is much for a small tree) and it has 2 stems going into the soil. They are grafted but i don't know why they did not cut one stem off. It should be a nice purple mango from Taiwan they told me, we will see next year i hope.

I also will go see Chatuckak again then to see what species they have now. If there is Ivory then i will  buy it.  The problem is they again can easy cheat me by selling an expensive species which is not what they say it is but we will see. I really would like to have Rapoza if they have it.

It is annoying that the thai always use the thai names but what can we do about it?

Heartwood

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2012, 03:17:21 PM »
i know a guy with a tree, but he doesn't give out budwood...sorry for posting this...I guess it's no help. :(
Google earth should work, what's his address?  ;D ;D ;D

And what time does he go to church on Sunday?   Just asking.

bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2012, 08:27:19 PM »
Sam ru do can bloom 3 times a year. That is what the name says in Thai language. Sam=3.

There are always mango's for sale in Thailand, all year around. Out of season they eat them green in salads or with sugar/condiments. I have never seen people scared for green mango's but i read on the web that it is very dangerous to do that. Also they pick and peel/prune mango's without any precautions at all, i read on some websites that the sap can be very dangerous on your skin.

On the street they peel them using gloves but i guess that is for hygienic reasons not of being scared for the sap.

msk0072

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2012, 02:06:51 PM »

I eat mango's in Thailand for 10 years but never had Ivory or Golden Queen. I have seen them in Siam Paragon supermarket but i won't buy it there. Supermarket mango's always taste boring so i prefer them from the markets.

I think i also have a plant from Kim Hong but that should be my purple mango which never flowered so far. Thai don't label their mangotree's on the wholesale places so they can sell me anything and i will find out what it is many years later. I bought that Kim Hong for 500 baht (which is much for a small tree) and it has 2 stems going into the soil. They are grafted but i don't know why they did not cut one stem off. It should be a nice purple mango from Taiwan they told me, we will see next year i hope.

I also will go see Chatuckak again then to see what species they have now. If there is Ivory then i will  buy it.  The problem is they again can easy cheat me by selling an expensive species which is not what they say it is but we will see. I really would like to have Rapoza if they have it.

It is annoying that the thai always use the thai names but what can we do about it?
Hi Bangkok
You love mango like me!
My friend is traveling around Thailand and he tell me that he likes to buy some different trees when he comes back. Of course the trees will be small size and most of them mangos. How can be sure about the quality and the varieties of them if you say they sell anything? Is Chatuchak the best place for it?
Mike

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2012, 04:55:13 AM »
Well Mike that is also hard for me to get what i order. I bought a plumeria variety on Chatuchak which should be Bali Palace but when i finally grafted it and had it flower it was a yellow one but the same one we had on a big tree allready. I saw them on Bali and they were totally yellow and ours had also white parts in the flowers.

He can try Chatuchak but then the tree should be labelled before you arrive there, in that case they can not give you some tree and tell you it is the one you ask for. On the other hand i bought many tree's without labels and those guys have 10 species standing all over the shop and they can see which one is which species by looking at the leaves and stem. I cannot do that but i am not a thai and in the mango-business.

Well the tree's are not expensive for us so if he decides to bring some then just buy some extra from other shops. They will not all be cheating i guess. On Chatuchak i was stupid one day and paid with a billiet from 1000 baht which i thought it was a 100 bill. When i walked away the lady followed me to give me my change.

If he goes to Kanchana Phisek road around the area of Bang Bua Thong he will see loads of mangoshops along the road. That area is not the centre of BKK but there the shops from Chatuchak might buy them, it is a very long area where they sell them and you can see them from out of the car/taxi/bus. Go where Kanchana Phisek road meats Ratthana-thibet road that area has loads of plantshops all over, you cannot miss them. They are along the road for many km/miles

Most tree's are full of diseases so spray them at home. If i was him and just want to buy it simple then buy on chatuchak. Also i read story's that the plant market there is open on wednesday, i thought friday but they are also there in the weekend but maybe not that many as on the plant day. Check internet if you want to be sure. Google on chatuchak and plant market and you will find many hits.

All the tree's there are grafted and mostly 1 meter high or taller. Good luck to him i think he will find what he wants.




bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2012, 05:09:06 AM »
I meant Bang Yai instead of Bang bua Thong, solly.

http://maps.google.nl/maps?hl=nl&q=bang+yai&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=X&ei=_mCnUIupKonUrQe11IDwAg&ved=0CAsQ_AUoAg

Where the Western Outer ring meats Ratthana thibet on both sides of the Western Outer ring (which is Kanchana Phisek road) you will find loads of plant shops. Nobody speaks english so good luck haha.

Do you  have nam doc mai = Miee Ma-Muang Nam doc mai mai?

Or Miee Ma-muang Mahanchanok mai? (Do you have mango mahanChanok?).

Better go Chatuchak or you must be in for an adventure.



Mike T

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2012, 05:35:08 AM »
Bangkok don't get your plumerias,lotus seeds or desert roses from chatuchuk as they are won't grow true.I could show you my purple,triple corolla and splash desert roses that all turned out to be pink trash ones after more than 2 years of close care.I have fallen for that trick more than once.It is like buying jewelery or gemsin thailand.The specialized nurseries on the outskirts of bankok are alright but not as got for fruit trees as those around ubon,udon,chanthaburi,chang mai and other regional centers.The nurseries in Ubon over the Mun River are impressive and cheap with big diversity.

bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2012, 08:24:53 AM »
Yes Chatuchak is known for bad quality products but sometimes the salespeople also got cheated by their wholesaler.

I am also still looking for a good gardencentre in Bkk but i think they do not exist here. You can buy tree's with fruits on them but they are too big to fit in your suitcase or even in a taxi.

My plumeria's were almost dead after the floodings, i cut the rotting stems off and let the trunks root again and now they grow well. Many mangofarms also were flooded last year and after that the prices of ndm went up a lot because of the tree's all died or got anthracnose from the humidity.


msk0072

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2012, 08:39:07 AM »
Well Mike that is also hard for me to get what i order. I bought a plumeria variety on Chatuchak which should be Bali Palace but when i finally grafted it and had it flower it was a yellow one but the same one we had on a big tree allready. I saw them on Bali and they were totally yellow and ours had also white parts in the flowers.

He can try Chatuchak but then the tree should be labelled before you arrive there, in that case they can not give you some tree and tell you it is the one you ask for. On the other hand i bought many tree's without labels and those guys have 10 species standing all over the shop and they can see which one is which species by looking at the leaves and stem. I cannot do that but i am not a thai and in the mango-business.

Well the tree's are not expensive for us so if he decides to bring some then just buy some extra from other shops. They will not all be cheating i guess. On Chatuchak i was stupid one day and paid with a billiet from 1000 baht which i thought it was a 100 bill. When i walked away the lady followed me to give me my change.

If he goes to Kanchana Phisek road around the area of Bang Bua Thong he will see loads of mangoshops along the road. That area is not the centre of BKK but there the shops from Chatuchak might buy them, it is a very long area where they sell them and you can see them from out of the car/taxi/bus. Go where Kanchana Phisek road meats Ratthana-thibet road that area has loads of plantshops all over, you cannot miss them. They are along the road for many km/miles

Most tree's are full of diseases so spray them at home. If i was him and just want to buy it simple then buy on chatuchak. Also i read story's that the plant market there is open on wednesday, i thought friday but they are also there in the weekend but maybe not that many as on the plant day. Check internet if you want to be sure. Google on chatuchak and plant market and you will find many hits.

All the tree's there are grafted and mostly 1 meter high or taller. Good luck to him i think he will find what he wants.
Very good and with details your information. Thank you very much Bangkok. I will transfer the information to my friend. He is now in the area of Sakon Nakhon.
I have to plan my next travel to Thailand as soon as possible! Can you be my guide for tree and fruit hunting?   ;) haha!
Last time when my friend was there a few months ago took some tree in his suitcase traveling back home. Small trees like mangos, durian, jackfruit, etc. about 60-70cm high. I do not know where he bought all these. He packed the tree in plastic bags bare root without anything. They arrived fine but in about 4-5weeks all the tree died. He didn't know how to handle such stuff. I hope this time is better prepared. If you find another good place where some one can  buy really good stuff let me know.
Mike

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2012, 09:19:43 AM »
Well i can show you the shops Mike but it is not so relaxed to hang around there. Those shops are at a very busy road (outer ring) so it is very noisy, smelly and bloody hot there in the sun. Also there is a lot of traffic jam and not many places to park easy.  The shops are on the pavement right next to the road but i know some sidestreets where they also sell them but there it costs a little more but is much more relaxed.

I will go see chatuchak plant market soon on a wednesday, i have never been on wednesday because i thought it was on friday and then the market is also open with plants. All species availlable on the place i mentioned i have allready so i need to find a new spot with new species.




bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2012, 08:44:31 AM »
http://www.00ff00.com/2009/02/05/elephant-tusk-mango/

This is the elephant tusk mango and also the name in Thai language.

I know a shop that has a tree from 1.5 metre high and am still in doubt to buy it. For 16 us$ i should just not think and give it a new home in a big pot i think. Tomorrow i will go see if they still have it.

Does anybody know if this one is nice? I have never seen nor eaten it.

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2012, 10:11:52 AM »
that mango reminds me of an emperor penguin, with no black coloration on it's back.

it is a beautiful and unique looking fruit.

it looks like you could club someone with that thing!
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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2012, 10:45:54 AM »
I let google search on that thai word for Ivory Red and found an interesting website with new fruits. Red Dragon mango (Swan) has a brix up to 24.




Saffron you should check this website and let google translate it. There is an Annona with durian flavor or it is a Durian with custard flavour i dont know because the translation to Dutch is not that good. You can see the pic and Annona Muricatal is the name. Maybe you got them allready but you  never know.

http://soclaimon.wordpress.com/tag/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A9%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%9C%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A9/

Tropicdude

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2012, 12:14:19 PM »
I let google search on that thai word for Ivory Red and found an interesting website with new fruits. Red Dragon mango (Swan) has a brix up to 24.




Saffron you should check this website and let google translate it. There is an Annona with durian flavor or it is a Durian with custard flavour i dont know because the translation to Dutch is not that good. You can see the pic and Annona Muricatal is the name. Maybe you got them allready but you  never know.

http://soclaimon.wordpress.com/tag/%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A9%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%9C%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A9/


Nice colors on that one, from the thumbnail they looked like flowers.

been trying to get Jin Huang ( Golden Queen ) in Fla, I think only Jeff has one,  not sure if they have specimens at Fairchild or Spice park, over here.  maybe next year I will have luck finding a tree or scion for it.
William
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bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2012, 12:25:07 PM »
Well the pic looks the same as Jakrapat (emperor cost 200 baht) mango. That one is also from Taiwan.

I also just found out that my Aywen mango is just Irwin, i think the taiwanese could not say that word so they make it Aywen. The Taiwanese mango's are mixed species from Irwin mango from Florida.

For me it is good news, now i will go grow the Irwin in a big pot and hope to get nice red mango's.

If the brix is really 24 i dont know, that was what i read in the translation but 24 is pretty high, sweeter then a namdocmai which is very sweet allready.

Red Dragon is also for sale here but expensive (1000 baht= 34 us$). Normally the best things cost the most in Thailand but that Aywen mango that i bought was only 100 baht so that makes it strange to me. Why is emperor so cheap then?

I m sure that next year or the year after that we can buy that Red Dragon for a much lower price on the streets. I did not buy it yet but i m still thinking if it is worth the money or not.

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2012, 12:50:18 PM »
bangkok,

thanks for the great link,

there is a strange annona at the bottom of the page I've never seen!
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Tropicdude

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2012, 06:05:38 PM »
Quote
If the brix is really 24 i dont know, that was what i read in the translation but 24 is pretty high, sweeter then a namdocmai which is very sweet allready.

Brix ratings need to be standardized some how, you can really only compare them with varieties tested at the same location by the same meter, and person.

Some stations will test brix at the time the fruit is harvested ( not fully ripe ) and other locations will measure when they are at optimum ripe stage ( this is when I think they should be measured ) and finally some places seem to take measurements of "Maximum" Brix, this may mean they are over ripe.

Same goes for Papaya measurements, they seem to be all over the place for the same varieties.   but one can get an idea if a fruit is high brix or not, when they compare readings from the same testers.

also I think brix can vary depending on location and minerals in the soil.

another factor is the ratio between Brix, and acid.   so just having a super high brix doesn't necessarily mean its a great tasting fruit.

here is some numbers on 9 different mangoes popular in Thailand, probably one of the most in depth details on things that effect taste. pretty cool.
https://www.uni-hohenheim.de/fileadmin/einrichtungen/sfb564/events/uplands2002/Full-Pap-S3B-3_Vasquez.pdf
William
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msk0072

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2012, 09:01:33 AM »
Well i can show you the shops Mike but it is not so relaxed to hang around there. Those shops are at a very busy road (outer ring) so it is very noisy, smelly and bloody hot there in the sun. Also there is a lot of traffic jam and not many places to park easy.  The shops are on the pavement right next to the road but i know some sidestreets where they also sell them but there it costs a little more but is much more relaxed.

I will go see chatuchak plant market soon on a wednesday, i have never been on wednesday because i thought it was on friday and then the market is also open with plants. All species availlable on the place i mentioned i have allready so i need to find a new spot with new species.
Did you visit Chatuchak market on Wednesday to transfer us some impressions?
Mike

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2012, 09:51:18 AM »
Yes Mike i wrote it in another thread. I bought Irwin which is allready growing on the tree (grafted).

They sold Red Dragon, jakrapat and ndm-red but i did not buy it. Also a red ivory mango.

The website about thai mango's is nice info but it says ndm4 is not that sweet compared to other ones in thailand. I never ate a very sweet keow savoi but they are also nice green or half ripe.

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2012, 05:40:35 PM »
Last night I came across a newly uploaded youtube video report ( in Spanish ) , an Ecuadorian mango exporter is doing a trial on Nam Doc Mai, which they may export to the US.   I think it would be nice if you could find NDM in supermarkets during the off season, instead of Tommy Atkins, which seems to be what I have seen in stores here during my visit.

Exportación de Mango en Ecuador | Elproductor.com
William
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bangkok

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #46 on: December 11, 2012, 08:01:28 PM »
Here we have NDM in the supermarkets year around. They do not taste as good as in the season though and cost 4us$ a kilo or more.

What i was wondering yesterday is that i have never seen or eaten an Atemoya or Anonna in Europa. On this forum many people love them a lot but if they are that good why are they not shipped then? Maybe it is too hard to  keep them fresh? They even grow in Madeira Island and that is a popular holiday-destination with airlines going there daily i guess.

I found out my new Irwin mango is attracted by small ants a lot. Also something like a scale insect likes to sit on that small tree and it also has a small hole in the stem. I will see what happens if it fruits one day but i think it is a pest-attracted mango compared to the thai ones.

Here it is hard to find a Mahachanok mango in the supermarkets. I still have never eaten one. Also Ivory is still on my list to eat.

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2012, 12:48:33 AM »
I think the reason is they just do not ship well.  they get really soft, fast.  my A. squamosa went from ripe to mush in a single day. soursops, which are popular, are hardly ever found in supermarkets in the DR. and if you do find them, they are fruit picked prematurely  and hard like a rock.

I do not think they will ever be viable as a supermarket fruit,   maybe in farmer type markets though. and of course processed into frozen pulps and things like that.
William
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msk0072

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2012, 08:05:11 AM »
I think the reason is they just do not ship well.  they get really soft, fast.  my A. squamosa went from ripe to mush in a single day. soursops, which are popular, are hardly ever found in supermarkets in the DR. and if you do find them, they are fruit picked prematurely  and hard like a rock.

I do not think they will ever be viable as a supermarket fruit,   maybe in farmer type markets though. and of course processed into frozen pulps and things like that.
I think you are right. As an example of prematurely picked fruits I can mention the imported mangoes from Brazil. They are sold here in the local SMs very hard and until you get them ripe they loose their flavor. At the end you eat a tasteless mango.
Mike

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Re: Golden Queen Mango?
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2012, 01:09:35 AM »
I found a little background history on the Jin Huang ( aka: Golden Queen, Elephant ) Mango.  and according to this article Jin_Huang parents are "White" and "Keitt". which i find a bit strange,  not sure what the "White" variety looks like, but Jin-Huang looks more like an over grown Nam Doc Mai, and I remember coming across a post somewhere saying it was a chance seedling of NDM.

http://enquarterly.tzuchiculture.org.tw/?mod=tc_monthly_en&act=detail&id=94
« Last Edit: December 14, 2012, 01:25:18 AM by Tropicdude »
William
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