Florida Natural Farming?

[Epiphyte]

when i'm sowing seeds, which is quite often, the two main youtubers i watch are flying fox fruits (fff) and florida natural farming (fnf). 

fnf used to regularly participate here but in several of his videos he said that "we" drove him away.  were torches and pitchforks involved?  i'm not sure, it happened before i joined. 

my guess is that perhaps 1 or 2 of yous, or maybe more, viewed his preaching as heresy and weren't shy about sharing your views.  or maybe the majority of you thought he was spouting nonsense? 

since i personally appreciate that, in the description section of his videos, he cites credible sources on important topics, such as the relationship between fungal diversity and drought tolerance, i figured it's worth it to discern our group's true preferences on the matter. 

contrary to popular opinion, voting is a very bad way to learn what a group truly wants.  voting is just cheap talk.  it doesn't require any effort to click the thumbs up button, which is why videos on eating tide pods get more attention than videos of eating rare fruit.  when you like a rare fruit of course you'll click the thumbs up button.  but when you truly love a rare fruit, then you'll shell out some big bucks for it, you'll blister your hands digging a big hole to plant it, and then you'll spend time caring for it.  there is no love without labor, effort, sweat, skin in the game... personal sacrifice.  so in order to unearth tff's true view on fnf, we need the opportunity to put our money where our mouth is. 

if you genuinely care one way or another about fnf's participation here on tff, make a donation to tff of any amount, then let us know the amount and whether you oppose or support fnf.  since i won't be able to edit this post, i'll keep a running tally in a google sheet...

tropical fruit forum's true view on florida natural farming

for example, i just donated $20 to tff and obviously i support fnf. 

even if more money is donated in support of fnf clearly there's no guarantee that he's going to participate again.  but at least he won't be able to say that we, as a group, do not support him. 

if you don't know the donation paypal address, just message patrick or myself.  uh, just to be clear, this post isn't in any way official or endorsed by tff admins. 

[johnb51]

I was wondering what had happened to him.  I liked his ideas, but there were others that had a different philosophy with a strictly "UF research"/ "best science" kind of approach, seeing trees as fruit-producing machines.  I was thinking that maybe he had sold the farm, which he had up for sale at one point.

[dolomis]

I enjoy watching his videos, very in depth.
It sounds like nonsense sometimes, but i thought about it and growing up in jamaica we have wild tropical fruits everywhere thriving among other wild weeds shrubs and trees with little to no human interference other than consuming the fruit .
This is the natural way of forest and has been that way before we arrived and will stay that way long after we are gone until plants become sentient and take care of themselves, which ironically is the point he is making is they already take care of themselves without us...

I myself want my yard and garden to be tidy and clean so i have a different approach but i dont disagree with his methods .
He has never showed up trying to my garden trying to convert me anyway.
I support FNF however.
I wont be donating since i dont agree with being "cancelled" from a group over his gardening practices.

Cheers~
 

[Frog Valley Farm]

My goal is to help Florida and humankind

https://socialmediavictims.org/cyberbullying/laws-in-florida/

[John B]

Funny thing is somehow I stumbled across his videos a couple years ago and I've watched so many even though we can't dry farm here. I find it funny how he calls out his neighbors for spraying glyphosate near his property. Seems he still checks the website

[Finca La Isla]

I left the forum for awhile some time ago being disgusted with Mark from Texas making very critical remarks on an organic growing thread.  Just butting in with his hostile views.  I started to miss the forum and I complained to the admin about what happened and he was pretty receptive.  In tropical agroforestry I’m pretty well known and my farm is a commercial success so I’m very convinced you can farm naturally.  I don’t get the hostility.
Peter

[roblack]

For every hostile poster, there are many more curious people and those in support. Problem is, you may not know it because they often do not post.

I love reading about natural ways of farming, and really enjoy the posts and vids about such.

Please don't let a minority of negative views push ya'll away from your community. We need you here, along with those with different ideas, and can learn from each other.

[vall]

Thanks for posting again Eric. I too abandoned California for Vero so I think your videos are going to be insightful for me. Rob said it well, I'm one of those people that doesn't often post but I have learned so much from this forum thanks to people like you.

[K-Rimes]

I don’t get the hostility.

It's difficult to compare people's situations and climates, and that discrepancy can be really frustrating to some folks. "Dry Farming" is challenging at best in an arid climate, and downright impossible in a covered greenhouse. What works for someone in the tropics will not be all that applicable to a zone pusher who has all their plants potted and vice versa. I have plenty of mushrooms and and fungal activity in my soil, especially when it's raining in winter, but that will cease to exist after just a few weeks of hot dry weather here with no watering - I could put thousands of pounds of fungus on my orchard and it wouldn't change that reality. It's not that FnF's theory doesn't hold water (ha), it's just not as applicable here in a desert.

Some people really want data to back up hypotheses and there isn't much of that in the organic world, whereas commercial products will almost always have robust data sheets to back them up (the secret to this is there's profit there). If you explain your lived experience, it just won't do and further inflames their feelings - they have data, you don't.

I always say I am a mix of an organic regenerative soil farmer long term, but I also like to use synthetic fertilizers to reach my goals sooner. You can be both, but most people like to pick a team.

[JCorte]

I'd enjoy hearing more from the natural farming community.

Scott and I started a farm 3 years ago using a combination of permaculture, regenerative agriculture, and agroforesty principles in our low rainfall area.  Finding a balance between growing food crops and restoring the native ecology is important to us.

Maybe I'll share in a post what we've done so far.

Janet

[0hip]

His brag about the only/first biodynamic achacha farm isn’t true though. The achacha farm in Australia has 16,000 achacha trees and is certified biodynamic (although it’s mostly voodoo anyway).

 He had some awesome garcinias too. Only videos available of some of them. Maybe the videos needs to be a bit shorter and more focused rather than just randomly walking around every video

[kapps]

I enjoy Eric’s videos. I’m not sure if getting a YouTube following is what he really wants but doing individual plant videos like Pete Kanaris did at first would probably get more interest. I’d like to pay him a visit one day since I live just north of him in Sebastian (on one of those 1/4 acre lots on septic ). I’d have code enforcement on me if I went full Florida natural but I’m doing what I can in the side and back yards.

[fliptop]

Was he "chased away", or did he leave on his own because there were differing opinions?

I'm perhaps the most ignorant person on this forum, and therefore appreciate many different points of view. Somewhere in all these opinions and experiences is the truth, right?! And I can *usually* take people's tones with a grain of salt; it comes in handy when sifting through posts for information.

I got nervous when FVF disappeared--got me thinking biodynamics lead to thin skin??

I think SeaWalnut may have been the only one ever actually chased away?

Anyhoo, we're just wasting our time discussing this--it's all a bunch of cheap talk. Donations, people, donations. Then, and only then, will we know . . .

[fliptop]

Janet, that would be awesome if you created a post on what you've done at your place. Lots of pics, please!

[johnb51]

I think SeaWalnut may have been the only one ever actually chased away?

There was this lady in London, I believe.  She was a nutcase and was banned after a while.  And there was also bsbullie, who liked to insult and/or demean people but had much useful mango information, being a friend of the Zills.  He stopped participating on his own.

[palmcity]

🐸My goal is to help Florida and humankind🐸
https://youtu.be/m81un5CKUk4?si=lqPaCYk4h36mF-OO

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3202163/

Below the video link there is the first study he lists and thus I assume most important to him but maybe not as I went to read the Discussion section of the reported study of many variables of weight/cholesterol/age/concentration of PFPA and Concentrations of PFOS levels; way too many variables for my liking. But regardless did you read what they wrote in Discussion as I'm not sure you did...

There is a significant Negative association between serum PFOS and a reported diagnosis of osteoarthritis.
That means less arthritis association than expected with highest serum PFOS individuals.

PFOA was reported to have a significant Positive association between PFOA and osteoarthritis.
The positive association of PFOA with osteoarthritis also appeared evident only at serum concentration above the mean of the US general population, suggesting a possible threshold effect for the association.

Soooo, they did find a positive association for osteoarthritis for 1 of the 2 (if serum concentrations were elevated above the mean of the US general population)....

Let's see what else they said clearly has a postive association for osteoarthritis::: 1. Female gender 2. Obesity, 3. Advancing age 4. lower educational level 5. poverty 6.Chronic comorbid conditions....7. Serum Cholesterol 8. Serum Uric Acid levels 9. etc. etc. etc. with many many things that have a positive correlation to osteoarthritis.....

Sooo, how is it that only 1 of the many many many positive associations to osteoarthritis is in your video is the one positive association that you tell us you are trying to get your friend and everyone else to believe is why he has osteoarthritis?

Yes, I see he does not agree with you for the reason he has osteoarthritis and perhaps many of the Eight other listed positive factors he feels is much more likely to be the cause of his osteoarthritis....

I do not recommend taking PFOS to increase serum levels of PFOS as they report a negative association between high serum PFOS and osteoarthritis.... I would suggest weight loss, lower your serum uric acid levels, get more educated, avoid poverty, avoid other chronic comorbid conditions by staying healthy exercising as much as your physician allows and see them regularly. These suggestions would probably be more meaningful to the world & your friend than your suggestion.

Nice pictures in video.... But tell me your opinion once instead of every 5 minutes in video repeating your harping on plastics and forever chemicals as the material cited does not agree with your opinion at least not the first listed....

I also like seeing you attempting more of a natural farming and seeing the native weeds growing with the editable plants.. I'm curious as to how fast they will grow vs. conventional practices and videos are a very nice comparison experience.

I do a lot a recycling plants/wood/etc. and also have an area that is close to but not as thick with natural plants as you.... So I will be looking for more of your farming efforts/ideas.

[K-Rimes]

That means less arthritis association than expected with highest serum PFOS individuals.

Makes sense that dosing yourself with non-stick ingredients helps with arthritis 

[pineislander]

fnf has his own abrasive and very boastful attitude. Nobody forced him away. Generally he wasn't receptive to anything or anyone who made suggestions, even folks with decades more local experience, it's his way or the highway...... The same happens at his youtube channel, blocks and deletes anything which doesn't agree 100%. You can see that he doesn't get along with neighbors, has few friends, which should tell most of what you need to know. I grow similarly to him, but just the fact that I use irrigation and mulch made me part of the horrible ones.... You are dealing with an extremist mindset, huge chip on each shoulder type of guy.

[flauro01]

I believe pineislander very curtly explained why fnf chose well in leaving this forum.  I have personally seen him bashing Eric on several different websites across the internet.  Calling him a "kook" or "nut job."  Then he gets mad when he is not allowed to continue this on fnf's personal youtube channel.  I find it interesting how you and other people can imagine and say such harsh, negative things about a person you have never actually met.  I believe you should find what it is in yourself that makes you project such negativity onto others and eliminate it before you bash the wrong person and it catches up with you.  Hint:  Matthew 7:3-5.  Good luck! 
I have known Eric for several years now personally and consider him to be a friend.  He is probably the most intense natural grower I have met.  But he has also proven himself to be one of the most honest and decent human beings I have ever met.  People may not agree with what he says or how he comes across but the information he posts is invaluable to people trying to grow naturally.    I am personally very thankful for his knowledge and friendship.
I will not be donating to this forum under the guise that it supports fnf or natural farming at all since I do not find this forum a good place to discuss either.  I do find this forum to be a great source of knowledge for many other things like meeting people interested in trading plants and seeds.  There are a lot of good kind people on TFF who are passionate about growing and love sharing.   I wish you all the best. 

[JCorte]

I will not be donating to this forum under the guise that it supports fnf or natural farming at all since I do not find this forum a good place to discuss either.  I do find this forum to be a great source of knowledge for many other things like meeting people interested in trading plants and seeds.  There are a lot of good kind people on TFF who are passionate about growing and love sharing.   I wish you all the best.

I disagree that the forum is not a good place to discuss these topics, especially because there are a lot of good, kind people passionate about growing and love sharing.

Janet

[Bush2Beach]

it happens, Mark believes in drinking round up and has imitated his Mexican neighbors in a demeaning accent describing them line drying their laundry.
The guy is an old kook. He was kicked off other forums in the past for this BS. Most of the growers in this forum are in Florida, and many don't care about organic growing and share here it's stupid and a waste of money for dumbasses that believe in global warming and vote for Brandon. some don't leak their views much lest it take away from their sales ,but can't stand organic farming the same way, can't understand more like.

I left the forum for awhile some time ago being disgusted with Mark from Texas making very critical remarks on an organic growing thread.  Just butting in with his hostile views.  I started to miss the forum and I complained to the admin about what happened and he was pretty receptive.  In tropical agroforestry I’m pretty well known and my farm is a commercial success so I’m very convinced you can farm naturally.  I don’t get the hostility.
Peter

[Bush2Beach]

Starling, Fruitlovers and many a female chased away.

bsbullie not being able to handle low IQ bs is different. He got better things to do.

I think SeaWalnut may have been the only one ever actually chased away?

There was this lady in London, I believe.  She was a nutcase and was banned after a while.  And there was also bsbullie, who liked to insult and/or demean people but had much useful mango information, being a friend of the Zills.  He stopped participating on his own.

[Timbogrow]

Then there's the guy that claims he is the only one that has seeds that are labeled correctly lol, an insult to everyone listing seeds/plants for sale.

[vall]

Most of the growers in this forum are in Florida, and many don't care about organic growing

Last week I was talking to an older master gardener, who said people have quit asking "how do I kill this bug" and instead ask "how bad is this pesticide". Even Florida is making progress.

[Satya]

I have met Eric @ Florida natural farming personally and my youtube video on his farm has over 9K views now with frequent comments of interested growers in the video. That was 2 years ago, from my recollection, he was doing something different from the mainstream style of farming and something that resonated with what i/we wanted to do in our North Miami Beach garden. We were impressed with the new ideas that he had to share and implemented some of the techniques of the biodynamic farming in our garden. It was not that he was chased away from here, but rather an atmosphere was created in the forum in those days that made posting anything undesirable, much like when someone fills a room with black fumes and dust, and one would just escape the room to breathe fresh air. I have felt the same way many times and don't post in discussion forum these days. I have a long list of those who have behaved rudely with me and a longer list of people who have been kind, sharing and joy to talk to. Like with everything else: food, clothes, people - we choose based on our understanding and experience, and some are open to evolve and some get comfortable with their known ways of eating, behaving, growing, and anything that is out of their norm becomes uncomfortable, anything alien, be it culture or growing habits, makes them feel uncomfortable and want to defend by being aggressive against such change or such person.


I agree that forum is a great resource, and the fact that so many growers can post their growing experiences and taste reviews is invaluable. I respect their opinion on their choices but i will do my own way. I have thrashed people's growing ways in my channel and will continue to do so. But i am not going to say that this is the only way.