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Trees here are densly planted as original 15 ft spacing has diminished due to overplanting.  Cold temps we experienced 20 years ago (low once of 17ļ-killed many mature eucalyptus trees in area), used return-stack heaters in those early days, covers, etc.  Trees are fully grown now and canopy effect and global warming (recorded evidence for local winter temps) there has been no real damage in past few years.  During the fight against freezing played with many alternatives.  Found temperature, freeze duration, humidity (dry cold nights were the worst) and soil moisture relevant to damage.  Canopy effect keeps humidity high along with soil moisture.  Freeze duration is shortened with higher humidity.  We are in 300 ft of dune sand so never worried about overwatering.  Did burn lot of diesel fuel in heaters in those days.  Plant maturity today makes a difference.  Those were immature plants back then, we are now close to 50 years here on 1 1/2 acres.  Never had C. tetrameira burned except new leaves.  C. edulis have been lost to freeze.  Then again, tree location, humidity, etc. are factors to consider more than temperature.  I have a 10 degree difference from one part of property to another.  Colder areas get citrus, warmer areas hold avocados etc.  If it was easy it wouldn't be fun.
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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Southeastern Citrus Expo
« Last post by Peep on Today at 08:05:43 AM »
I think it's by category.

So if that's the case, then the Nansho Daidai was the best of all the sour orange entries? 
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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Name game
« Last post by Benito Chavez on Today at 07:04:09 AM »
It's a dull game
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I do a little propagation over the winter...



These are on a heating pad and in a greenhouse that has heaters that prevent a freeze, but usually they are still very slow to sprout over the winter. But the time I tried storing the seeds in a fridge instead, I had higher failure/rot rate in spring, so I just go ahead and put them in soil in the fall now.
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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Ice cream bean holding a fruit
« Last post by Timbogrow on Today at 06:16:18 AM »
Thanks Brian! Maybe you could grab one of those cheap kiddie pools and experiment with filling it up so it saves you some effort. All the ingas here need some real rain water so I'm contemplating running a pump out of the canal for my drip lines since it's probably better quality than the well. It just scares me that it could have all those weed killers and whatever else. Probably no different than the well besides the amount of fresh rain runoff. The well water isn't very good quality and high in dissolved solids, especially cause we're around 20ish" short on rainfall this year. Hoping next year we get back to normal.
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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: White Sapote Fruit Shapes
« Last post by FruitForLife on Today at 05:03:45 AM »
Excellent information, keep up the good work.
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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Kishus Are Doing Well This Year!
« Last post by FruitForLife on Today at 04:27:03 AM »
Iím getting mix information, some say sweet, some say sweet sour, so the consensus here is that itís always sweet, Thatís good to hear.

I used to have a Kishu tree but itís gone now, now it seems almost impossible to find one to buy here in ca
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Citrus Buy, Sell, & Trade / SP Urban
« Last post by mikkel on Today at 02:50:39 AM »
I am searching for an SP Urban.


Does anyone in Europe have budwood or even better a plant to share?


Thank you very much!
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Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Idiospermum australiense
« Last post by Ellocot on Today at 02:47:43 AM »
I don't know about the other species from Australia, but Idiospermum australiense was almost logged into extinction. Technically the current species may be a different species or whatever, unlike the first discovered specimens.

The others, were widely found in another rainforest of sorts. And overlogged.

And this species in particular is very interesting.


Sure, you have some living fossil families / genera and the like in Japan. Katsura trees have two species in their genus, after that there's a family. And that's it. Species on other continents went extinct.

There's also a few conifers and other things in single families found there.


Gingko bilboa exists. As dies the much cooler Amborella trichopoda. Plus redwoods.



Idiospermum australiense, is similar to things like Lindera benzoin, Magnolia macrophylla, Asimina triloba, Amorphophallus konjac, Asarum canadense,  Liriodendron tulipifera and some other species. There's also the North American Skunk cabbages, both of which have Asian species in the same genera that can freely hybridize with them, if I remember correctly.

The flowers attract swarms of flies, and beetles. Sometimes bugs and things use their seeds for some purposes, save for Asimina species and things like Cherimoya.

Asimina species flowers can go from a small bad smelling red flower that attracts beetles, to large white flowers and things that resemble Magnolias and smell sweet.


Idiospermum australiense, is found in the Calycanthaceae. Idiospermum is the only known living species in its genus. Chimonanthus is another genus - all of its species are found in Asia.

Calycanthus, is the third family.

Three species are in North America. One in Asia.

The Asian species, doesn't smell fragrant and it has white flowers.

Calycanthus occidentalis, and Calycanthus floridus are known to be quite fragrant.

Similar to Liriodendron, there is an Asian and North American species - other lineages died out.

These also attract insects.



Idiospermum, is of larger interest to scientists than those other genera. For one, it hasn't changed much in fossil records. It's flowers and things look the same.

Also, no living species appears to consume the seed. Similar to the Osage Orange, they drop to the ground and then get dispersed by water or grow at the base of the tree.

Unlike Osage Orange, cattle tend to die after consuming these. Not even cassowary touch them.


Many of these listed species, pollinated by flies and things - they prefer to outcross. But they're having issues with dispersal. North American Magnolias, most seed dispersers are chipmunks. They just break the seed and consume it immediately without burying it.

This leads to less diversity and yeah. Bottlenecking.


Pawpaws are eaten by bears - they're fine. As are some other species.


Many of these are in the Magnoliids order. Which is semi interesting, since many lines diverged and did similar things.



But anyways. Then you have Idiospermum australiense, which just isn't eaten by anything, but insects love it.


Animals don't destroy the seed, it still makes large stands which helps with diversity.

There are other interesting things about the species.


Regardless, you'd need to contact a government official or someone who lives near these forests, to collect seed.


These aren't protected themselves, even though they've lost most of their range and are likely endangered.

But, they're mostly found inside of protected locations, meaning you can't mess around with anything in the areas that they're currently found in.


It's possible that some trees have escaped the forests, or that they're found in smaller locations nearby.


Many Australian species can grow in areas that experience brief frosts, so these would make great specimen trees.


Apologies about the other stuff. This species is quite interesting to me.

Solanum lycocarpum, the wolf apple is something that you wouldn't think is eaten by a canine but it is. Seeing these large toxic fruits makes me think that maybe animals ate these for a similar purpose at some point in time.


Another rather interesting Australian species, which is hard to find and on the same "you may need to goto Australia to get seed" is Solanum plastisexum.


Anyways, I hope you find this seed. It also has the largest embryo of any living plant. And it has multiple cotyledons in its fruit. As mentioned online, pretty much all other flowering plants have one or two cotyledons.

The large round nuts that you'll find online, are the seeds. They're nuts by the time they fall from the trees. It's hard to say what animal would've found something like this, especially with it being toxic and large, to be appealing as a food - and disperse it around.

Maybe giant chipmunks grabbed them and stored them or something.

Very cool plant species. If you're still looking for the species, good luck. Some botanic gardens may have these growing as well.





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I can confirm that my trees on C-22 Bitters are healthier and have stronger sun / heat resistance than my trees on sour orange here in Phoenix AZ high pH shitty desert soil.
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