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Messages - JSea

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Hmmm. Trying to identify this unknown Citrus.

It peels reasonably easy even though the fruit was unripe. The juice vesicles are firm, like a pomelo, and the membranes are very thick. The fruit was not fully ripe, but tasted sort of like weak grapefruit / mandarin flavour, slightly more sweet than sour.
Approximately 30x seeds in one fruit, and up to 12 segments.
Zest smells kind of 'spicy' and more like an orange/grapefruit (not lemon).

Thinking it might be either kinkoji, sanbokan or possibly ujukitsu. Possibly there's other options as well.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Torreya Californica
« on: April 14, 2024, 06:47:38 AM »
Some of the California native seed suppliers will supply the seed in small quantities, but it sells out very fast. Maybe try visit some botanic gardens that have mature specimens and look under those for some seeds.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Zone Pushing the Sapote Family
« on: April 11, 2024, 02:11:04 AM »
I'm growing lucuma and green sapote fairly well, although no fruit. I have a grafted lucuma that is flowering now, although I don't think it will set any fruit for a few years until it's bigger.

Lucuma is much hardier in our climate and rarely seems to experience any issues at all. I have lost almost no plants over the last few years.

Green sapote seems much weaker, and I lost a number of plants, but a few are doing well, including one grafted onto lucuma rootstock (it has yet to spend an entire Winter unprotected though).

Canistel is absolutely not suited to our climate at all, and I lost all plants that were kept outside in the same conditions as lucuma. Even the one that I bring into a greenhouse to overwinter, basically doesn't grow during Summer due to low heat.

Black sapote, I have one seedling that now survives fine outside. It defoliated the first few years, but seems to be okay now over Winter.

White sapote grow quite well locally, and there's some mature trees locally. I haven't planted any out yet, but am looking to select some new varieties. Some of the varieties have difficulty ripening due to low heat.

Your description eyeckr sounds pretty identical to a citron that I had eaten. Photos in this post here:

I have a feeling that there's dozens of citron varieties that would taste basically identical and that Turunji is not special at all.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Cocktail Pummelo tree (Mandalo)
« on: March 03, 2024, 02:43:38 AM »
These look and sound similar to the NZ Grapefruit, which I suspect is a very similar cross. Wondering if anyone has tried both of them to comment on similarities?

Chironja page at UCR says it's highly polyembryonic, so should come true.

I've been told that Xianfengcheng sweet orange has edible skin, although haven't tried it myself.

Many of the sweet lemons have sweet edible skin, and are worth seeking out.

Re: Turunji. I have a different citron that can be eaten like an apple with zero bitterness, although I wouldn't necessarily describe it as very sweet. I suspect Turunji is a pretty standard citron and that there are dozens of citron varieties that are as good.

If my Meiwa would set some pollen, then I would try making some hybrids with it. I suspect most Nagami F1 seedlings will have a lot of acid in the fruit, which if true would mean using very sweet variety pollen to counteract the acid is probably a good approach.

I'm doing some hybrids at the moment of NZ Grapefruit x sweet lemon, which should have a decent chance of edible skin.

Also I understand that there are some egg-sized kumquat hybrids in China.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Meiwa dying back
« on: February 26, 2024, 02:15:36 AM »
Possibly the interstock isn't doing a good enough job, but also I've noticed kumquats seem to be pretty weak plants even straight on trifoliata. My Meiwa and Nagami on trifoliata are nowhere near as healthy as the Indio or Nippon mandarinquats also on trifoliata. Have recently re-grafted both onto C35 in the hopes that it's a better rootstock for them.

Citrus General Discussion / Carvalhal mandarin - anyone growing it?
« on: February 18, 2024, 03:48:58 AM »
I bought a supposed Carvalhal plant, but it has a fairly distinct smell that is not mentioned on any of the online descriptions for Carvalhal, so wondering if anyone can report as to what the crushed leaves on their plant smells like. Also any taste reports and comparisons welcome :)

Hi folks, looking for seeds (not corms) of Colocasia esculenta - thanks :)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poorman Orange/New Zealand Grapefruit
« on: February 12, 2024, 10:43:08 PM »
I will definitely post more updates, although usually I prefer to post results rather than "hopefully I can..." :)

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poorman Orange/New Zealand Grapefruit
« on: February 12, 2024, 08:38:11 PM »
At the moment I have hand-pollinated fruits of these hybrids on the plant (of course they can still fall off):
NZ Grapefruit x Calamansi
NZ Grapefruit x sweet (low acid, edible peel) rough lemon

In both cases, the goal is to have the edible peel of the pollen parents, while retaining the sweet flesh of the NZ Grapefruit and maybe even reduce the bitterness further (it's already not a problem, but I know most people don't like bitter fruit). The fruit should also become smaller in both cases, which may make it a bit faster to ripen. Otherwise maybe a good marmalade fruit could be the result.

No I would definitely say it's very different to Seville orange. Seville orange is far too sour to eat the flesh of (at least the ones I tried), unless you are one of those crazy people. NZ Grapefruit is as sweet as an orange when fully ripe (it will hang on the tree for months after being ripe, gathering ,ore sweetness), with only a mild bitterness (much less than true grapefruit). I have made marmalade from both Seville orange and NZ Grapefruit (using the same recipe), and the NZ Grapefruit marmalade is far sweeter, but also more runny. The peels also disintegrated much more in the NZ Grapefruit marmalade vs Seville, so that was another interesting factor, it reminded me a slightly bitter honey. The fruit size is also very different, with NZ Grapefruit being almost twice the size of a Seville orange on average.

We don't have any Japanese varieties apart from the usual mandarins and Yuzu, so I can't compare to Natsudaidai. I think it might also be similar to Sanbokan, which is described as a mixture of orange and grapefruit flavour.

I have been told that there are some oranges with quite edible peels, such as Xian Feng Cheng. Not yet tested it myself.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poorman Orange/New Zealand Grapefruit
« on: February 12, 2024, 12:00:17 AM »
Can confirm that they are very 'cool tolerant' and will withstand frosts, but the fruit also take a long time to ripen. At least some of the cold tolerance comes from it having high vigor, so it's able to outgrow minor damage.
I wouldn't say it's particularly cold tolerant compared to for example mandarins from what I've seen.

Over here, they are definitely sweeter than true grapefruits in most areas where they are grown. When fully ripe they can approach and meet the level of sweetness of a decent orange quite easily. The main problem with them is that they are too juicy in my opinion, and could do with being a bit firmer flesh. I would also be happier if the fruits were smaller, as then they would ripen quicker.

This variety is very common in New Zealand, much more common than true grapefruit, but is becoming less common as the younger generations don't have a strong like for grapefruits these days so it doesn't get planted as often as it used to.

I am also doing some hybrids with one of the NZ Grapefruit varieties, so potentially will have some interesting new fruits in years to come.

I managed to visit Eriobotrya hookeriana, and grow some seedlings. Attempted few grafts from the parent tree, but not expecting them to take as the grafts were not performed in optimal conditions.

I grew a Sumo seedling that I grafted onto a seedling trifoliata (itself only a year old or so), and it has already started flowering at about 10cm tall.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Calamansi / Calamondin as rootstock
« on: October 19, 2023, 04:56:40 PM »
In California, Meiwa kumquat is incompatible on Troyer citrange (and probably on Carrizo). It is also incompatible on the calamondin and on Citrus shunkokan.
McClean and Engelbrecht (1958) report that Nagami kumquat budded on seedlings of Nagami were incompatible. This is not surprising since Nagami produces only hybrid seedlings.

Well that is unexpected. I did not expect at all that Meiwa would be incompatible on calamondin, or that Nagami wouldn't go onto its own seedlings.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Jaboticaba not growing well
« on: October 18, 2023, 05:59:19 PM »
Unfortunately the jaboticaba looks extremely upset. They don't like too much fertilizer and can easily get burned from too much. If you gave rapid release fertilizer, then that's even worse.

They like acid soil pH, and so if you're using standard potting mix, then the pH may be too high. I would also suspect because of you're in Pakistan where (I understand) the natural soils are usually high pH, that the potting mixes available will also be higher pH.

They also don't like to be permanently wet, but moist is the better description for the soil. If the soil is too wet without oxygen, it would become anaerobic and kill the roots.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Planting seeds of Citrus Bergamia
« on: September 23, 2023, 06:24:41 AM »
What's interesting is that apparently one of the parents of bergamot is a limetta.

What I don't know, is whether it was an acidless limetta or not - maybe someone knows that.

If it was an acidless limetta, and your bergamot seeds were self-pollinated, I think that means there's a 1/4 chance that the seedling will be acidless as well. It would've been possible to tell this before you germinated the seed - just look for the chalazal spot being tan (no clue how to do that though haha, good luck actually doing it).
The other clues are whether it can make any red pigment (new growth reddish, as some lemons/citrons have) - if it can, it's more likely an acid Citrus.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citron/Etrog ID
« on: August 20, 2023, 07:33:44 AM »
I was thinking it's slightly similar to the Turunji, but if the description for that variety is accurate, this one isn't as sweet and seems to have slightly too much bitterness to be of the same class as an apple.

I've checked most of the citron variety lists I can find (e.g. UCR, citruspages, Tintori) and so far nothing exactly like this one. Yemenite citron matches the rough shape and pith characteristics, but is truly dry citron whereas my citron here definitely has pulp and a more rugose outside.

Agree it does look pretty great for candying :) I'm a big fan of marmalade, but haven't done any candying yet.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citron/Etrog ID
« on: August 19, 2023, 05:14:06 AM »
This citron/etrog is just an unknown fruit sourced from a home gardener (I didn't grow it), and they said there's no real history to their plant other than they bought it locally a few years back.

The fruit I pictured is indeed much bigger than yours hehe, 1600g was the weight of this fruit.

Citrus General Discussion / Citron/Etrog ID
« on: August 19, 2023, 01:07:59 AM »
Hi folks. Wondering if there's any thoughts on whether this Citron/Etrog is an existing variety or not.

Zest is a bit bitter. Pith/albedo was fairly crunchy, a bit juicy, and sometimes sweet. Only a tiny bit of bitterness. Flesh was sour, but not as much as a true lemon.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus seed vendors that can do phyto?
« on: August 12, 2023, 09:37:39 PM »
I have been in contact with Auscitrus and they have been very helpful, but sadly they only really have rootstock Citrus seeds, and their budwood is of relatively homogenous stuff (e.g. mandarins, navel oranges - not really any wild Citrus). When did you contact CRI? I was thinking about trying as well.

That budwood program is defunct now. There is a remaining Citrus collection in a Crown Research Institute, but I've not yet figured out exactly what they have in there. Maybe will visit it in a few months. Can dig up the list of what varieties they had in the budwood program if that's helpful.

There are no domestic seed suppliers, and even if there was - it would be only trifoliata. Maybe one day I will have sufficient quantity to ship internationally, but can't comment on how difficult the phytosanitary stuff would be.

There is no real evidence of alternative rootstocks anymore, at least for public use. Some small scale nurseries imported their own seed and sold things grafted onto C35 recently though.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus seed vendors that can do phyto?
« on: August 12, 2023, 03:44:00 AM »
Thanks caladri.

Yes I'm aware of the extra declarations required. US seed is mostly off the list, although I don't yet understand if there's a difference between a disease-tested, insect-free facility and the general area around the facility in terms of HLB presence.

Any further hints on these government/university programs? I did find this article on Citrus collections which lists a few names:

Citrus General Discussion / Citrus seed vendors that can do phyto?
« on: August 11, 2023, 06:05:14 AM »
As the topic states :)

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Best lemony scent
« on: July 28, 2023, 09:03:03 AM »
Putting a vote in for Rough lemon (possibly it's a sweet rough lemon - aka Australian bush lemon). I've got one here that is much better than every other lemon I've tasted. Far more 'lemony' than a lemon, and without the extreme sourness of true lemons that limits their usage to a small quantity. Can be eaten whole without too much difficulty.

Ponderosa lemon is a pomelo hybrid, and to my tastes, I can indeed taste 'white pomelo' mixed in with the juice. It's okay, but I wouldn't rate it highly.

I've not had much citron tasting, and the one I did taste was maybe too old (was from the ground rather than picked), so the pith tasted a bit off. Hoping that fresh off the plant it will taste nicer next time.

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