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Messages - orangedays

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 01, 2022, 03:51:34 PM »
Nice color! Congratulations, this is good progress towards your goals, and in only four years.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: December 30, 2021, 04:11:52 PM »
I am germinating them indoors.  After they come up ( in about two weeks - if seed coats removed ), I either place them in a south facing window or under grow lights. This way, I get a head start on the growing season and these may grow a few feet before next winter.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: December 30, 2021, 10:51:53 AM »
These are pictures of 20 seed from the F2 PT X Hirado Buntan hardyvermont sent.  I pealed the seed to speed up germination. This also gives some ability to determine if the seed are poly-embryonic. 

These seed are larger then most, plump and 100% mono-embryonic.  So hopefully/probably zygotic. They are also very white which may will be useful in detecting future crossed to green seeded citrus.  I will plant them in the ground this spring when they are of size.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Fukushu X PT seed
« on: December 01, 2021, 09:52:50 AM »
I was not aware of this.  There is some question of fukushu being a hybrid of some kind, similar to the calamondin, so maybe the reason lies in that direction. It blooms in the spring unlike my other kumquats which is why I was able to make the cross.  The Thomasville kumquat is reported to be 1/4 PT so there is some success with the cross.  Non-viability may be an exaggeration because all the varieties he tried were not viable as you said.  So far two are still healthy but its early yet.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Fukushu X PT seed
« on: November 26, 2021, 07:14:52 PM »
Yes it was you! It was the calamondin by PT seed description you provided that got me interested in seed color and convince me to try more crosses with polyembryonic varieties as well. I also noticed that seed with a pale embryo often turns out to be mono embryonic or have few smaller secondary embryos, as if the zygote suppresses the nucellar embryo development.

Its very impressive that you were able to germinate a soft seed. I didn't know it was possible unless in tissue culture.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 26, 2021, 06:59:26 PM »
The fruit looks great.  This is a cross I am interested in.  Hirado Buntan is supposed to be 'quite cold hardy' and ripens in the fall with zygotic seedlings.  What I didn't realize was how big the fruit is until I saw the pictures Laaz posted. Does it ripen in the same year it flowers in? That seems extraordinary, given its size.  The size of this F2 fruit is really impressive and encouraging.  I  bought a Hirado Buntan this spring hoping maybe to make this cross next spring. But this is better.

If all the seed not already claimed, may I have some?

 I am also making a few crosses with PT to get away from the current nucellar hybrids and use these to back crosses to cold hardy citrus. After that, use the back crosses to hybridize to each other and to select for for good taste and hardiness. It might work for zone 8 as there are some sweet citrus that can almost survive 8a.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Fukushu X PT seed
« on: November 22, 2021, 08:03:58 PM »

With the changshaw there was also a slight color difference between the peeled seed. I divided the seed according to color. These seed come from 4 fruit and there was a surprising number of pale seed.  So far all the light green seed have trifoliate leaves.  I also make a very few tenuous crosses of hamilin on the PT.  In the spring the winds were high and I found it too dangerous on most days to approach the failing PT limbs in order to apply pollen. Anyway I did harvest fruit and found among the many the tan seed, there were two with a slight off green shade. I planted all the seed from the fruit with the pale green seed, and two came up with a different look. It will be a year before I will be able to distinguish if any of the PT seedlings are crosses but two have much longer middle leaves and are growing more vigorously.

Some one else on this forum that clued me into looking for the color difference in embryo's. Was it you Till?  I had read the  pale embryos are immature. That may be (they seem slower to germinate), but it may also be useful marker for finding hybrids.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Fukushu X PT seed
« on: November 22, 2021, 07:47:46 PM »
They are still alive but not doing as well as I hoped. I started with eight and now have only two that are vigorous.  It seems they damped off or something similar happens with the roots. I am trying to rescue three by grafting on to pure fukushu seedlings but I don't hold out much hope. There are three that seem to be healthy, two are tall and one is very small but looks green and healthy so far.  In this case all of the crosses had alternating leaves. I think also the seed color indicates a cross. I made two additional crosses this spring ChangshawXPT, and PTXHamlin.  I will post those results in a separate post to follow.

Can one see a visible difference between the dormant PT flower buds and leaf buds in the fall? 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: 28 F, -2.2 C
« on: November 18, 2021, 02:51:20 PM »
Are these in the ground cold-hardy plants that don't need protection just the maturing fruit?
Seed from Poncirus  that go through cold winters in the SC upstate will germinate, so if the fruit are mature enough, the cold probably won't harm them. 
The seed may be mature enough to germinate and grow now, even though they were set in June.  I had 3 fruit from a tangerine X PT cross this summer and a fruit  split open in July and another in August.  The fruit ripen late October.  Anyway the seed from the fruit that split in August were firm and germinated when planted. These seed were two months immature.  The seed from the one remaining mature fruit are just starting to germinate.
Also I believe if you pick and store the fruit, the seed inside will continue to mature as long as the fruit is alive. Of course the fruit will start to die after a month or so but it can buy some time.

I am wondering if by pruning that would create new growth that was bushy and more compacted and establish a strong frame to support future fruit.  I guess I should try and see but that means pruning off all the current fruit and flowers to get to an eventual hopefully better end-state. 

I have a Mayer lemon in a pot that has a weeping form. It sends out long sender branches and blooms and sets fruit on the branch tips. It then the branches bends and drops to the side and destabilize the pot. Its cumbersome to move about and doesn't look as nice as it would if the branches were sturdier and shorter.  I noticed and treated it for scale this spring which made it grow more vigorously but still the same long slender framework with fruit at the tips of the branches.

Is there a general practice for pruning potted citrus you can recommend. Thanks!

There are many groves of feral PT growing in SC and Georgia. I have harvest some and and examined the fruit found many which seem to be mono-embryonic.  How I tell it to take the inner seed coat off and see if the kernel is a single almond like seed or of it fractures and falls into many parts.  By they way its interesting to sprout these parts on a wet paper towel. Even the tiny fragments will germinate and send out a root. 

I've read that in the late 1800's people used them for fence hedges. My Mom said they were used for pectin when she was a child. A little of the pulp was mixed with fruit that didn't contain much natural pectin allowed the fruit to jam. The same way crab apples are used for the pectin.  They may be worth having to add genetic diversity to the current limited selection of PT that's available.  I am using the wild PT with mono-embryonic seed growing near me for crosses.  I hope they will confer a better chance of zygotic seedlings to the offspring.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Anyone growing Croxton Grapefruit?
« on: October 15, 2021, 04:45:10 PM »
Thanks, The pictures are impressive. Do you prune it back to maintain size or does the flying dragon root stock naturally keep it that small?  Does it ripen in the fall or spring?   your set up for keeping them covered is nice.  It looks simple to construct and attractive.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Anyone growing Croxton Grapefruit?
« on: October 13, 2021, 09:56:26 AM »
Does anyone grow Croxton Grapefruit?  I would be interested to hear your of experience growing it and how hardy you judge it to be. Thanks.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Fukushu X PT seed
« on: September 28, 2021, 08:05:36 PM »
I also need more experience with storing pollen. I saved some pollen this spring and used it on some kumquats this summer but none of the crosses took. The cross above was done in the spring when both the fukushu and the poncirus trifoliata were blooming. The fukushu bloomed again in July and made and attempt with the stored pollen then, but all the fruit aborted. 

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Can I graft now?
« on: September 28, 2021, 09:52:23 AM »
I don't know if the fall is a good time or not.  But last fall I made a large number of grafts and set them in a cool green house where the temperature at night was often only 4 or 5 degrees F above freezing in mid winter. I checked them frequently and though the scions stayed green nothing happened. They were grafted on the PT seedlings.  When spring finally rolled around they started to grow.  So I may have done better waiting until the Spring.  Since you will keep them warmer, and maybe not onto PT root stock your grafts may not wait until Spring to grow.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Citramot?
« on: September 15, 2021, 12:59:33 PM »
You will probably have good success. I found that is 5 out of 6 crosses I made resulted in hybrids. The one that did not, tangelo X citrumelo was not overly polyembryonic. let us know how it goes.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Grafting on 6 week old seedlings possible ?
« on: September 15, 2021, 12:54:45 PM »
Grafting seedlings worked well for me also.  Here is an updated image of the seedling rescues. They are on PT. They did not grow as fast as the non-grafted seedling. I wonder if its from recovering from grafting of being on PT which is a slower growing seedling than these tangerine X tangelo crosses?

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Are these leaf minor eggs?
« on: September 15, 2021, 12:50:14 PM »
These are definitely butterfly eggs. I caught the butterfly in action and snapped a few photo's. Unfortunately the photo quality is fairly poor but it shows the type of butterfly involved.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Are these leaf minor eggs?
« on: September 15, 2021, 12:46:41 PM »
I do more or less. I plan to spray every week with neem oil and spinosad. But I actually do the much less frequently because of rain or bright sun light or I just don't get to it. When I do the leaf minor is not a problem and it also takes care of scale. I am not sure it works so well for spider mites. It helps but I think they persist in small numbers or else they float in from other plants that don't get sprayed.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: TaiTri
« on: September 06, 2021, 08:01:05 PM »
this is a very healthy tree. What are the fruit like?  I have an unknown PT hybrid with leaves that look very much the same, narrower than citrumelo or citrange. The fruit looks exactly like a very yellow lemon and it tastes like a lemon except the skin and white it is extremely bitter. More bitter than straight Poncirus trifoliata. But none of the latex like gum of PT. This tree does fine in upper zone 8a. I read that Citrus taiwanica is very bitter also.   

Citrus General Discussion / Re: tanglefoot direct application experiment
« on: September 06, 2021, 07:46:06 PM »
-Do you feet the tangle foot server its purpose? I never felt it was that much help, but then most of my insect problems are from flyers.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Are these leaf minor eggs?
« on: September 05, 2021, 07:42:30 PM »
Thanks, There are butterflys fluttering around the citrus all day.  The bird dropping caterpillars have had their share of leaves and even some rather large brown weevils attacked the PT leaves this year.  But the leaf minors aggravate me the most. They sneak up on me when ever I fall behind on the neem oil.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Fukushu X PT seed
« on: September 05, 2021, 07:32:49 PM »
Thanks Tedburn.  I hope to keep these alive so there is something to tell.  Some of the seedlings are showing the PT origin.  The crosses seem to be growing faster than the clones. I think there will be six crosses in this batch.  Hopefully they will survive and grow this winder and next spring I will bud graft them onto an older citrus to see what comes of them. 

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