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Messages - Epiphyte

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  We have finalized the price with exporter. This time the price is $50 each for female or male trees. I am starting to take payment. As we did as previous time, the payment method can be via payPal: ( please use the option sending money to friend) or Zelle When you make the payment, please add your order number, name, email address, and shipping address.

 Thank you!
via paypal the friend option isn't available.  perhaps you have a business account?  seems like paypal made the change this year.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: First flowers of Macleania smithiana
« on: December 03, 2022, 02:20:27 PM »
ooo, 1st time seeing an epiphytic blueberry posted here, but not like i've been a member for that long.  i've grown a few different varieties over the years. most are pretty challenging outdoors here in the los angeles area. my friend had a really nice collection but it was largely wiped out one summer when temps hit 116F. i've only had a few different fruits but i think in all cases i decided to sow the seeds instead.  All The Fruits recently tasted macleania punctata...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Monstera deliciosa
« on: November 08, 2022, 01:26:40 PM »
Anybody ever notice any seeds in their fruit?  They are the size of peas.  I've eaten several fruits here in Southern California but have never found any seeds.  I'm guessing that the flower needs to be pollinated (crossed or selfed) in order to produce seeds?  It's kinda strange though that a plant will spend so much energy producing fruit that doesn't have any seeds. 

My Thai Constellation flowered recently.  When the spathe started opening I cut it off entirely and pollinated the spadix using pollen from a friend's albo.  However the next day or two I noticed a greater quantity of nectar on the spadix so I think that I should have waited or saved some pollen. 

Neat!  I tried mine for the 1st time this year and was a bit underwhelmed.  Perhaps mine was a hybrid though.  But I do love the idea of selecting for big and delicious Epiphyllum fruits so I've acquired some NOID varieties that produce relatively large fruit.  Then the trick is to cross them with more tasty varieties.  I do have some seedlings from a NOID variety that I tasted a few years back.  The fruit was on the small side but very aromatic, kinda like a rose.  I really enjoyed it. 

You might appreciate this thread...

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Tropical Fruiting In Guanacaste Costa Rica?
« on: October 09, 2022, 02:26:26 PM »
Next month I'll be visiting Costa Rica for the 1st time.  Going to be staying primarily in Guanacaste for a couple weeks.  Any suggestions or advice?  Is there a particularly good fruit market?  Botanical garden? 

I love all sorts of plants.  I've been obsessed with epiphytes for the longest time but am getting more and more preoccupied with tropical fruit... especially Garcinias and Eugenias.  I'm dying to try achacha and all the other Garcinias in the Americas!  Are any readily available in Costa Rica?  What are their names in Spanish? 

There are a "few" epiphytes that I'd love to bring with me to share in Costa Rica, such as Kalanchoe uniflora.  How strict are the customs agents? 

Thanks in advance! 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Introduce the new Variety of longan.
« on: August 29, 2022, 04:40:56 PM »
"...inducing the fusion of protoplasts in different species..." 

Embryo rescue

16 trees please...

Biqi: 1 male / 1 female
Late Growing: 2 females
Crystal: 2 females
Dongkui: 4 females
Black Crystal: 2 females
An Hai: 2 females
WuSu: 2 females

Los Angeles

Recently I sent the following email to the City of Los Angeles Department of Recreation and Parks (RAP)...



In Southern Spain there's a public park with a bunch of subtropical fruit and nut trees...

How would we go about doing the same thing here? 



I received this response...


Thank you for your interest in collaborating with the City of Los Angeles Department of Recreation and Parks (RAP).   In order to fully consider your idea/s and determine the best route to implement actions, we need to obtain some more information about your organization and what type of service you are proposing.  Please find below some basic proposal questions to provide us with initial information.  If any question is not applicable, merely indicate so. 

1.  Provide Organization legal name, address, phone, website.
2.  Brief description of proposed program, idea, project, or general proposal.
3.  What specific RAP site(s) is the Organization interested in?
4.  How will the program/project be funded, and what is the general program/project budget?
5.  Is there any program/project sponsorship or grant funding involved?  If so who, and are they requesting any form of recognition, promotion, or future facility use? 
6.  Will the program or completed project be free to the community to participate/use?   If not, what will the fee(s) be?
7.  Who is the program/project geared towards serving (adults, seniors, youth, women/girls, men/boys, etc.)?
8.  How frequently will the program be provided?
9.  What is the program/project development timeline?
10.  Has there been any community or Council Office involvement in the program/project planning process?
11.  Are there organizations or companies (non-funding related) who may/will be involved in the program/project, and if so, in what capacity?
12. Will the proposed program/ project be implemented solely by your organization or will another entity be involved?
13. Has your organization entered in a similar arrangement/ collaboration in the past with another government agency (local, state, federal)?
14.  What is expected of Recreation and Parks?


Heh.  I'm hoping that this is something that the local chapters of the California Rare Fruit Growers might be interested in pursuing?   ;D  Personally I'd be more than happy to contribute some trees and labor. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Why no Subtropical folder/category?
« on: August 03, 2022, 05:12:26 AM »
Anybody subscribe to "All the fruit" on Youtube?  In one video he gave a tour of a public park in southern Spain that has a bunch of subtropical fruit and nut trees. 

Naturally I'd love to have the same kinda park here in southern California.  If I created a recruiting thread in the general category I think it would get buried pretty quickly under threads with broader appeal.  So it would be very useful if there was a subtropical category as well as a California category.  And then voila!  We'd have a public park in SoCal that introduced the general public to so many wonderful fruits and nuts trees that they've never heard of.

Creating such categories wouldn't divide us, since there's already a feature that shows us all the recent unread threads

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Botanical Garden Optimization
« on: July 06, 2022, 04:27:05 PM »
Sherman library and gardens has a fruiting cacao, maybe worth adding to your list

Cool, I love that little garden.  Where is the cacao?  Guessing it's in the greenhouse?  The Huntington has, or had, a fruiting cacao in their conservatory, which harbors a few other tropical fruit trees.  A month or two ago I saw a big fruit on their jackfruit tree.  Also saw a bunch of fruits on their Pouteria calistophylla. 

The LA Arboretum also has a jackfruit tree.  Even though it's a lot smaller I prefer it because it is outside, unlike the jackfruit in the conservatory at the Huntington.  It is counterproductive when plants that can be grown outdoors are grown in greenhouses in botanical gardens because it gives the impression that they can't be grown outdoors. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Botanical Garden Optimization
« on: July 04, 2022, 09:02:56 PM »
Which botanical garden in California has the best variety of tropical fruit trees?  I'm guessing that it's the Fullerton Arboretum? 

Several years back I was surprised when the LA Arboretum planted a bunch of tropical fruit trees.  How, exactly, does a botanical garden end up with a decent collection of tropical fruits?  Does credit go to the director, the curator, the board or a generous donor? 

I don't remember seeing any tropical fruit trees at the South Coast Botanic garden, but I did see this donation box...

Imagine if there was a 2nd donation box next to it specifically for tropical fruit trees.  How would you divide your money between the two boxes?

Right now you can decide how you divide your donations between the South Coast Botanic Garden and the Fullerton Arboretum.  But does the Fullerton Arboretum give you the opportunity to divide your donations between tropical fruit trees and roses?  Maybe if you donate enough. 

I've been a member of The Huntington on and off for many years but have never been given the opportunity to specify how my $100+ annual membership gets divided between the library, museum and garden.  How much difference would it make if the members could decide how their dues were divided? 

Let's say that botanical gardens did make it ridiculously easy for all of us to decide how our dues/donations were divided.  Could I guarantee that tropical fruit trees would be the winners?  Sadly no.  All I could guarantee is that botanical gardens would be maximally beneficial. 

And perhaps you'd prefer to hold out for a new director or curator who is gung ho about tropical fruit trees?  I remember being so surprised when I learned that Myron Kimnach, a past director of The Huntington gardens, was gung ho about filmy ferns, especially since he was most well known for succulents.  Here's a pic that I took at Myron's house of him and Elmer Lorenz admiring some Rhipsalis...

Those two guys were so incredibly cool, they are legends in my book, but neither of them told me about the achacha.  That credit goes to the Weird Fruit Explorer guy on Youtube, who seems to have zero interest in sowing any of the precious seeds he ends up with, heh. 

Sure, I've definitely informed curators and directors about plants they've overlooked, but I'm 100% certain it would be more effective to inform everyone instead.   

X = everyone trying to inform 1 person
Y = everyone trying to inform each other

X < Y

We educate each other, we donate to botanical gardens accordingly, and voila, optimization. 

Sweet! I believe they are.  I think the Santa Barbara tree that these originated from is a solitary tree

Did you happen to ever try the fruit at the optimal time? 

You grow them in a greenhouse? 

When I was in high school I was obsessed with trying to grow orchids on trees here in SoCal.  I failed so much but succeeded just enough to keep trying.  Several years later, after I had already figured out the trick, I read in an orchid society magazine that a guy just a half hour from where I had lived in high school had some trees covered in orchids. 

Here you are in high school obsessed with your own planty challenge but you've got this forum, youtube, instagram and countless other sites with so much useful information. 

Basically I had to walk to school 10 miles uphill both ways through 10 feet of snow...  :o

Anybody know if it's possible to cross these two guavas?  Does a hybrid already exist?  If so, what's it called and how does it taste? 

While on the topic, if I plant a Eugenia selloi in between my two unifloras, will they hybridize? 

Does anyone ever group their fruit trees with the intention of facilitating hybridization?   If so, which trees?   

Looks great!  Maybe add some orchids to the palms?  ;D  Which Eugenia varieties do you have?  So far I only have uniflora (red and black) and selloi. 

Planted a Garcinia humilis last year but it hasn't grown much.  Probably in too much shade.  A friend in nearby Eagle Rock has his in lots of sun and it's growing quite well.  We're more inland than you so we are generally warmer during summer. 

Also PM'd

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Cactus Hybrids
« on: March 11, 2022, 01:23:11 AM »
Woah!  I'd love to see all those crosses, but not sure how many are possible?  One thing I'd suggest is to check out the relevant cladograms (ie Rhipsalideae) in order to learn how closely related two species are.  The more closely related they are, the more possible it is to cross them.  Here's another relevant cladogram... Hylocereeae

It would be amazing to have a Rhipsalis type cactus that produced fruits the size and sweetness of grapes.  Hmmmm...a few months ago I bought Disocactus aurantiacus.  Just now I learned that the fruit is surprisingly large.  But how does it taste??

A while back a friend offered me the fruit from her Epiphyllum hybrid.  I went back home and couldn't help but taste it.  I was surprised how good it was.  I made the rather difficult decision to stop eating it and save the seeds, which I germinated and dispersed among friends.  I have at least one seedling that I should really pot up. 

Years ago I gave away my rather substantial collection of Epiphyllum hybrids.  The flowers were too short lived to warrant the amount of space the plants took up.  But I never tried any of their fruit, which I don't remember them ever having. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Prioritizing Fruit
« on: December 04, 2021, 01:22:06 AM »
Like stated above, fruit is subjective and you should go by your own opinion instead of relying on others. Achacha has a good flesh to seed ratio for garcinias and the fruit is good enough to go into my top 10 list. Does it matter to you? No. Fruit is subjective and you need to try for yourself first before getting the tree if you are serious enough. Granted, I buy a lot of trees without tasting the fruit. Some are rare and have not been fruited in the US before. Others are too hard to find the fruit. So what? I grow trees cause they are cool, fruit is a product of me taking care of my trees. While fruit is why people grow trees, the process of growing fruit is part of it too.
Today a plant friend visited me.  I jokingly tried to persuade him to eat some very ripe fruit from my nightshade weed.  He said no way, it's deadly.  So I googled it and showed him what google said.  Admittedly it wasn't very clear.  Just now I realized that I don't think I've ever had Atropa belladonna, the actually poisonous one, in my garden, since it has distinct purple bell shaped flowers that I don't recognize.  The flowers on mine are small and white, which matches the description of Solanum americanum, which isn't poisonous. 

A while back I was visiting another plant friend when I noticed something yellow growing on a distant tree in her neighborhood.  I realized it was a chicken of the woods mushroom and asked her to grab a knife and a bag.  We walked over and harvested it and I told her to take some.  She said no way.  Afterwards I told her how delicious it was, and that I was still alive.  A couple months afterwards she saw it growing on another tree in her neighborhood.  She brought it over to my place, I cooked it, she tried it and loved it. 

Of course your opinion matters to me!  But I probably shouldn't solely rely on your opinion.  The trick is making it really easy to quickly access everybody's opinion, but in the form of a valuation.  Hence the point of using donations to rank achachas and countless other fruits. 

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Prioritizing Fruit
« on: December 03, 2021, 05:56:48 PM »
This is probably the weirdest post I've seen on the site, but, go on.

Fruit is extremely subjective. I don't think this would really work. Most of us here love ALL fruit. I deeply enjoy a plum just the same way I deeply enjoy a durian.
Your next door neighbor asks you for fruit tree suggestions... you're going to tell him to just flip a coin?  My Filipino neighbor loved my lemon guava so I gave him a few volunteers.  He also tried my Surinam cherry but wasn't interested in any seedlings.  My Costa Rica neighbor also wanted a lemon guava volunteer.  She adamantly refuses to even try my Surinam cherry because her mom told her that they are poisonous.   ???

How you would divide your limited dollars/donations among all the different fruits would reveal how you want your neighbors to divide their limited garden space among all the different fruits. 

I am open to donating to TFF, but I don't need it to anything but fund the servers and the work that people put in to maintaining the website back end.
Participating in the rankings would be completely voluntarily.  If you didn't see any room for improvement, then naturally you wouldn't participate.  But I'm pretty sure that most people wouldn't 100% agree with the rankings. 

A couple months ago I bought and planted an achacha based on one Youtube review and the vendor telling me that it can be grown outdoors here in the Los Angeles area.   Since then I read on a forum (here?) several members saying that there wasn't enough flesh to warrant planting it.  Maybe I should have done a better job doing my homework?  Well... yeah, probably.  But the fact is that information about this fruit is distributed among 100s or perhaps 1000s of people.  The most important information that these people have is their valuation of this fruit, which we would all have very convenient access to, if they were able to use their donations to rank it. 

Can you guess how highly achacha would be ranked?  Can you guess how intensely people want their neighbors to plant achachas?

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Prioritizing Fruit
« on: December 03, 2021, 02:29:22 PM »
Would someone have the motivation to spend money to rank their fruit higher? (I get in terms of the forum donation drive but frankly those only last a few hours)
For people who who are already donating, improving the ranking would be an additional perk. 

For people who aren't already donating, they are going to disagree with the rankings, which will give them some motivation to donate in order to improve the rankings. 

Taste is subjective, some people want things really sweet, some people want things sour.
The rankings will be a reflection of people's diverse fruit tastes... more so than the fruit selection at a typical supermarket. 

Fruit access, Let say a bunch of people from South Florida voted for mango because of all the fancy Zill varieties that we have access to here.
If someone in Georgia saw the ranking list and bought a mango from the store they would be very disappointed.

Plenty of awesome fruit has only been tried by a few people and the only way to try them is to live in that locality or grow it yourself.
Part of what motivated me to post this thread was I was scratching my head wondering which tropical fruit seeds to order.  Having access to a prioritization list would make it far easier to decide which fruits to try and grow, and this would greatly improve the distribution and availability of the best "new" fruits.   

There is another thread where members list their top 5 fruits (not only tropical).
We could compile people's top 5 lists, but the result would be same thing as voting.  We wouldn't see preference intensity.  It matters how much you love a fruit.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Prioritizing Fruit
« on: December 02, 2021, 05:58:23 PM »
I recently tried yellow dragon fruit and liked it way more than the red flesh and white flesh varieties.  I also recently tried jackfruit and really liked it.  Since I like these two fruits so much, I really wish that I had learned about them decades ago.  It makes me wonder just how many other fruits I haven't tried yet but would love. 

One of the worst things in life is overlooking the best things in life.  Unfortunately, overlooking the best things is way too easy, given how many things there are competing for our very limited time and attention. 

Fortunately, we don't all look in the same places.  It's a given that plenty of you have tried yellow dragon fruit and jackfruit way before I did.  Those of you who loved it told others about it, which is great, but it took way too long for me to get the memo.  Way too many other people still haven’t gotten the memo.

The solution is simple.  We make a list of fruit and sort it by donations to this website.  For example... I could donate $10 to this website in order to increase the ranking of jackfruit by $10.  The higher up jackfruit is on the list, the more people would try it. 

Why not just use voting?  Because then the top fruits would be things like apples and oranges... fruits that everybody already knows about.  The majority can't know anything valuable before the minority does.  Plus this website needs donations anyways. 

I'll share a couple relevant examples from nature. 

When the 1st bee discovers that my cherimoya is blooming... hah.  Dragon fruit?  Nope.  I can't remember if I saw any bees on my Surinam cherry, but let's go with it.  She flies back to the hive in order to recruit other bees to help harvest the pollen/nectar.  The way she recruits is by dancing.  You probably already knew this, but maybe you didn't know how she conveys her valuation.  She does this by the intensity of her dancing.  The more valuable she perceives my Surinam cherry, the more intensely she will dance, and the more bees she will recruit.  It's important to appreciate that dancing intensely will burn more of her precious calories, so it's a sacrifice for her, just like spending money is a sacrifice for us.  We should use our sacrifices to prioritize fruits, just like bees use their sacrifices to prioritize flowers. 

To be clear, whenever we buy a fruit we are making a sacrifice to help prioritize it.  But of course we aren't going to pay more for the fruit than we have to.  We all want the best possible deals.  The problem with deals is that they skew the prioritization.  No deals with donations though. 

The second example from nature involves a creature that we all hate… slugs.  Ugh.  Go to the ant thou sluggard?  Actually, it seems like slugs are extremely effective at finding and destroying valuable plants.  This is because they are essentially completely honest with each other.  One lucky slug finds your jackfruit seedlings and fills its belly with 5% of them.  Of course the bastard wants to eat the rest of your seedlings, which means it needs to be able to find them again.  It does so by leaving a trail of slime that it can use to essentially retrace its steps.  However, if any other slug happens to stumble upon the slime trail, they will also be able to use it.  So the next night there are 3 slugs eating your seedlings.  The night after that there are 10 slugs… within a few days your seedlings are all gone.  Any subsequent slugs will leave new trails that say “empty belly”.  Well, they won’t sacrifice their calories to say “full belly”. 

Slugs are way too good at recruiting each other.  Good for them, bad for us.  Bees are also really good at recruiting each other.  Good for them and us.  What about us humans in terms of recruiting?  We have lots of room for improvement. 

Logistically, maintaining the fruit prioritization list would only be a lot of work if lots of people are regularly making donations.  By then though a portion of the money could be used to automate the system.  And then another portion of the money could be used to promote the list.  As a result, we will minimize the amount of time it takes for the best “new” fruits to go from scarce to abundant. 

I understand that California farmers want to protect their crops from pests, but it's iffy when they use my tax dollars to do so.  I'm sure they also want to protect their crops from the cold, so should they also use my taxes to subsidize greenhouses and heaters? 

The natural advantages which one country has over another in producing particular commodities are sometimes so great that it is acknowledged by all the world to be in vain to struggle with them. By means of glasses, hotbeds, and hot walls, very good grapes can be raised in Scotland, and very good wine too can be made of them at about thirty times the expence for which at least equally good can be brought from foreign countries. Would it be a reasonable law to prohibit the importation of all foreign wines merely to encourage the making of claret and burgundy in Scotland? - Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations

That was written in 1776.  More recently...

Farmers use the subsidized water to transform desert into prime agricultural land. But turning a California desert into cropland makes about as much sense as building greenhouses in Alaska! America already has plenty of land on which cotton can be grown cheaply.  Spending billions of dollars to dam rivers and transport water hundreds of miles to grow a crop which can be grown more cheaply in Georgia is a waste of resources, a deadweight loss. The water used to grow California cotton, for example, has much higher value producing silicon chips in San Jose or as drinking water in Los Angeles than it does as irrigation water. - Alex Tabarrok, Tyler Cowen, Modern Principles of Economics

The best things for California to produce can only be discerned by competition, which is why subsidies are counterproductive.  They invariably hurt consumers in the long run.  Farm subsidies are especially bad since they encourage monoculture.  If farm subsidies were eliminated farmers would have no choice but to diversify in order to protect against pests, diseases and bad weather.  There would be a huge increase in the supply of tropical fruit. 

So if you love tropical fruit you should hate farm subsidies. 

Today a guy in my plant group messaged me for the 1st time...

I have thousands of Cherimoya seeds I want to start a farm .just haven't found a partner to get property here in so cal.

He has a huge tree that produces tons of fruit and he doesn't pollinate by hand, so I got curious whether the beetle had been introduced, which is how I found this thread. 

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