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Messages - hardyvermont

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Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: cold test on seedling New Zealand lemonade
« on: January 09, 2022, 09:41:35 PM »
Have you been bringing the plant back indoors after every exposure to cold?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: new thoughts on breeding hardier citrus
« on: January 08, 2022, 11:21:34 PM »
Crossing Satsuma with Poncirus yields a sour fruit. Based on the link above, domesticated Satsumas have less sourness, so would be the preferred choice as the sourness is not coming from both parents.

If these wild species were available, it would be good to try for hardiness.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 08, 2022, 11:58:07 AM »
This is fascinating, how cold has it gotten so far?  Looking forward to seeing how well they make it though the rest of the winter. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: January 03, 2022, 10:04:42 PM »
A-026 is actually an F-2 seedling of C 35 Citrange, itself a hybrid of Ruby blood orange and Poncirus.

Interesting, Morton, Rusk and Thomasville all have Ruby parentage

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: December 31, 2021, 06:44:31 PM »
That is very encouraging, a hardy deciduous F1 plant with improvement in fruit and only 4 seeds. 

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Urea Spray
« on: December 16, 2021, 10:47:34 AM »
Is there enough biuret in urine to be a concern?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Taste Test
« on: December 04, 2021, 06:46:09 PM »
2. Bishop citrandarin seems very promising , Does anywhere in Europe cultivate Bishop citrandarin and what are the experience concerning fruit quality and frost hardiness ?

It is doubtful that it is in Europe.  However if anyone grew a lot of US 852 from seed which should be available In Europe, there would be an excellent chance that a seedling would be of better quality than what I have, mine is just a chance seedling that I bought thinking it was US 852.

Seedlings of US 852 have been sold in Europe as HRS 899 a, b, c, etc.  They have varying degrees of hardiness, leaf shape, and taste.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Taste Test
« on: November 29, 2021, 08:29:30 PM »
I found Bishop Citrandarin to be intensely flavored. It is surprisingly sweet, plus tart. Here are 2 photos of Bishop grafted on Poncirus. They'll be observed and compared for hardiness this Winter.
Apparently fruit will be sweeter as it continues to ripen for a few more weeks, last year the brix was 14 in December

Cold Hardy Citrus / Taste Test
« on: November 29, 2021, 01:19:45 AM »
A casual taste test with 4 people, in general order of preference. Fruit are my own or from Citrus Expo. 

1) Sugar Belle, taste like smarties, zing!  sweet and sour.  Brix 12

2) Juanita, juicy, flavorful, orangey.  Brix 11

3) Ventura Lemondarin, sweet, sour, lemony. Brix16

4) Early Pride "better than cuties" very sweet, juicy, mild orange flavor. Brix 11

5) Sweet Frost, very sweet, good flavor. Brix 10.5

6) Owari, sweet, bag of juice, bland.  Brix 8.5

7) Changsha, a little juice, OK flavor Brix 12

8) Loch Laurel, Juicy, less flavor than Early Pride. Brix 8

9) Early St. Anne.  Bland. Brix 6

Poncius hybrids:

US119 seedless, yellow skin, sweet, very orange smell and taste, an earth taste giving way to the orange.  Hard to separate pulp from seed.  Brix 12

Bishop Citrandarin 851 F2  Bitter then milder, not Poncirus flavor Lemony scent.  Bright orange skin.  Taste popular enough that request was made for seed.  Brix 10

Pomelo x Poncirus F2 plant 1-2,  grapefruit taste, would go well in gin, sour, not Poncirus flavor Brix 8

From Expo, Unknown mislabeled Poncirus hybrid, scent of grapefruit, floral, 'Wow, OMG' 'Like Sour Patch Kids' musky pine 'Like you made a citrus beaver'  Brix 9

Picture is of unknown fruit collected from presentation table.  Ideas?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 26, 2021, 10:46:00 PM »
The fruit looks great.  This is a cross I am interested in.  Hirado Buntan is supposed to be 'quite cold hardy' and ripens in the fall with zygotic seedlings.  What I didn't realize was how big the fruit is until I saw the pictures Laaz posted. Does it ripen in the same year it flowers in? That seems extraordinary, given its size.  The size of this F2 fruit is really impressive and encouraging.  I  bought a Hirado Buntan this spring hoping maybe to make this cross next spring. But this is better.

If all the seed not already claimed, may I have some?

 I am also making a few crosses with PT to get away from the current nucellar hybrids and use these to back crosses to cold hardy citrus. After that, use the back crosses to hybridize to each other and to select for for good taste and hardiness. It might work for zone 8 as there are some sweet citrus that can almost survive 8a.
There are 5 fruit altogether so there is more seed to come.  Waiting for further ripening to improve flavor and brix.  Plant probably blossomed in April.  The winters are too cold here to have fruit survive the winter. 
Good luck with your breeding, there are a few sweet citrus that can usually survive zone 8a winters, throwing in some poncirus background could get hardiness down another 5 degrees F. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 26, 2021, 12:11:00 PM »
From research I've looked into in the past, there's probably a higher than 50 percent chance the seedling you grew was nucellar, so it may be an exact clone of the original parent hybrid. But there's also a fair chance, maybe somewhere between 20 to 40 percent, that the seedling could have been zygotic (probably resulting from hermaphroditic sexual reproduction. If that's the case there is a chance the genes might get scrambled around to improve characteristics of edibility and cold hardiness. But even those chances of an improvement are probably 1 out of 4, or 1 out of 8 (I would guess, from apply basic statistics to how dominant/recessive gene pairs work). I know this is very speculative but maybe that will give you some small idea of what could be happening here and the chances of any change from what you did here.

I do find it very interesting that you chose to use an actual pomelo in your (original) cross.
No, it is zygotic.  The parent had a smaller fruit.  The siblings have different characteristics

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 24, 2021, 10:42:16 AM »
Is it F2 seedling of your own F1 PomeloXPT cross?
Yes, an F2 of the original cross.  The original crosses were made many years ago.  I moved and almost all of the plants were lost.  A few fruit were scavenged when I went back to my old place.  7 plants from one fruit have survived which appear to be zygotic.  Three have fruit now. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 23, 2021, 09:33:53 PM »
Thatís wonderful! Looks like you made your own citrumelo. Looks kind of like Dunstan. Congratulations.
Thanks.   There are differences.  The leaves are unifoliate, there are no thorns and the fruit is larger.  Dunstan may taste better, and has a nicer color.  There are more fruit on the tree and hopefully they will ripen enough before cold weather for a more positive evaluation.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 23, 2021, 09:08:25 PM »
This is the first year this F2 Pomelo x Poncirus has fruited.

Is it F1 or F2?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 23, 2021, 05:41:13 PM »
Congratulations.  Will you be planting the seeds?  If so, good luck and keep us up to date please.  If not, there are people who would like to grow them. 
I'm surprised it is winter hardy that far north.  That's very encouraging.  Walt
I'm not keeping the seed.  You can have them.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 23, 2021, 02:30:19 PM »
Nice fruit and quite hardy plant, did you cross it and raise it from seed ? How long dit it take to fruit ?
Yes, I made the original cross.  This is from a seedling from that cross.  It is about 8 years old.  It would have bloomed earlier if it had been planted in the ground sooner rather than kept in a pot. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Hybrids
« on: November 23, 2021, 12:13:36 PM »
Congratulations, what a large fruit! How early in the year did it flower? What is the ancestry
estry of the tree?
The flowers were not noticed, when the fruit appeared it was a surprise.  It probably bloomed in early April.  The female parent is Hirado Buntan, the male is from a seed collected at the Arnold Arboretum. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Hybrids
« on: November 23, 2021, 11:20:10 AM »
This is the first year this F2 Pomelo x Poncirus has fruited.  It is grafted 5 ft up on a Poncirus which has not been pruned back.  It has gone through several winters without protection, including a low of about 6 F, -14.4 C.  Fruit does not appear to be ripe.  Brix is 8.5.  Taste is sour with Poncirus overtones.  Somewhat like a grapefruit picked too early.  Fruit is oval 5.5 inches (14 cm) at the widest and 4 (10 cm) inches high. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: 28 F, -2.2 C
« on: November 19, 2021, 01:13:24 AM »
Are these in the ground cold-hardy plants that don't need protection just the maturing fruit?
Seed from Poncirus  that go through cold winters in the SC upstate will germinate, so if the fruit are mature enough, the cold probably won't harm them. 
The seed may be mature enough to germinate and grow now, even though they were set in June.  I had 3 fruit from a tangerine X PT cross this summer and a fruit  split open in July and another in August.  The fruit ripen late October.  Anyway the seed from the fruit that split in August were firm and germinated when planted. These seed were two months immature.  The seed from the one remaining mature fruit are just starting to germinate.
Also I believe if you pick and store the fruit, the seed inside will continue to mature as long as the fruit is alive. Of course the fruit will start to die after a month or so but it can buy some time.
Yes, these are hardy plants growing in the ground.  There are two goals, collecting seed and seeing what the ripe fruit taste like as this is the first time they have set fruit.  Thank you for the suggestion to pick fruit and let the seed ripen within.  Latest prediction is a low of 29, so maybe there will be none or minimal damage. 

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« on: November 18, 2021, 12:14:04 PM »
"Taitri seedling showing deciduous habit.TaiTri is inconsistent, with some trees being persistent, while others are rather freely deciduous. The tall, slender growth habit and similar narrow, long leaves of TaiTri initially led me to suspect they were nucellar seedlings. However, they vary in deciduousness, hardiness (some tops are already cold damaged, while others show no damage). There are also nuanced variations in branching and foliage."

That's great to know.  Seedlings look alike and I assumed they were nucellar.

Cold Hardy Citrus / 28 F, -2.2 C
« on: November 17, 2021, 02:25:16 PM »
It is going to freeze next week.  Do citrus fruit survive without damage at 28 F, -2.2 C temperature?

June flowers on a couple Poncirus hybrids set fruit and I want them to have as much time on the plant as possible for the seeds to develop.

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: September 26, 2021, 02:58:51 AM »
Was precocious poncirus the pollen parent?

Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: hybrids with precocious Poncirus
« on: September 25, 2021, 10:05:18 PM »
Likewise any update Hardyvermont?
One cross with precocious bloomed after three years, this year a second hybrid at four.  F2 of first cross looks like segregation.  The cross was blood orange x precocious.  May know in a couple years if precocious is simple recessive.   

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