The Tropical Fruit Forum

Citrangors and other backcrosses of existing Poncirus-Citrus hybrids with Citrus were already carried out in the early 20th century in order to achieve better rootstocks for Citrus. The breeding of Citrangor C-43278 also dates back many decades. The disadvantage of using Citrangors as a rootstock was that the fruit yield was low, while other properties were better than with other rootstocks. As with most other Citrus-Poncirus crosses, the breeding goal of Citrangors was unfortunately never to achieve a cold-tolerant hybrid with good fruit. Because where Citrus is grown commercially, winter is usually not a problem.

For interested forum users living in Europe: I can deliver fresh harvested pawpaws in September 2025. I case of interest please send a PM.

The pH value is also a decisive criterion. For example, and I can confirm this from my own experience, there are plants that only thrive in acidic environments. Even if everything else is right, such as climatic conditions and humidity, if the pH value is too high they will wilt and die. Water permeability and thus soil consistency is also an important criterion for some plants. Of course there are also plants, perhaps the majority, that are not so sensitive. But with some you have to pay very close attention to the soil requirements.

1.545 / 5.000
So, I'm a little disappointed with "Golden Courrant" (Ribes aureum). I have several black-fruited varieties as well as one orange-fruited variety.

For all of them, it should be said that the yield is very low in relation to the size of the bush, in any case much lower than with conventional black currants (Ribes nigrum) or red currants (Ribes rubrum)

Then they do not ripen uniformly. You have to come several times at intervals of several days to harvest and that is very time-consuming, including sorting when picking.

It should also be said that the berries all have a fairly long dried-up flower residue, similar to gooseberries )Ribes uva-crispa) , which has to be removed manually by pinching or cutting, so it does not fall off on its own.

The taste of the black varieties is disappointing. It is only somewhat similar to the conventional black currants, but this aroma actually lasts. The aroma is very flat.

The orange selection, on the other hand, has a somewhat exotic taste, but the berries are smaller and also hang on small panicles, which makes harvesting very laborious. Here too, there are different ripe berries at the same time and on the same panicle, which makes harvesting even more difficult, as does pinching off the stems and the dried flower remains.

All in all, I have decided to completely uproot Rubus aureum, in my opinion it is not worth cultivating if you can fall back on other Ribes.

I don't have an HRS899 A, but I do have an HRS899 O/Q, probably the only one in existence, it flowers and fruits reliably and the seedlings are mostly zygotic, which can be easily seen from the different appearance.

Quote from: usirius on November 13, 2024, 09:28:01 AM

Incidentally, as has been mentioned, Poncirus polyandra is more frost-hardy; for years I have been cultivating it outdoors with very little winter protection.

I think this is the first time I've seen anyone state what polyandra's hardiness was.

I estimate that it survived -12 °C and showed no signs of frost damage.

Hello usirius,

great that you have both forms. I've only ever heard that there are 2 forms and didn't know which form mine belonged to
I think I have the one with the smaller leaves. It also seems to be more like the one in the species description.

At the beginning I had a plant outside, but it froze back at -6°C, since then I've had it in a pot. How much has it survived with you?

In the photos it looks as if the form with the larger leaves occasionally develops monofoliate leaves. Is this the case or have the smaller leaves fallen off?
Have your plants already flowered? It has already flowered in Oer-Erkenschwick, but I haven't read anything about fruit yet. One of my plants is descended from this flowering one, but there have been no flowers here yet.

Thank you!

The leafes are in geeneral trifoliat but this year the snails have increased in number and are eating the leaves on the young shoots, so that often one or two leaves are missing, then they appear bi- or monofoliate. Mine showed no damage, even in very extreme winters. I think you have a different variety or one from a different source if it has suffered major damage at -6°C. - They are not very fertile, but every now and then they keep a fruit, which they lose unripe in late autumn.

Well, it's not such a secret. I know the young man personally who visited the native region of Poncirus Polyandra in China over 20 years ago. He got some material from there, which he gave to a citrus friend to save and propagate. From there, some of the material ended up in the Damrstadt Botanical Garden (Germany). There are two types of Poncirus polyandra, which differ significantly in terms of leaf size and appearance. To illustrate this, I photographed both types side by side. Incidentally, as has been mentioned, Poncirus polyandra is more frost-hardy; for years I have been cultivating it outdoors with very little winter protection.

The origin must remain a secret but there are now several collectors who have them and a botanical garden in Germany also got them this way.
So far all the flowers are sterile and no fruit has formed

It can actually happen that Poncirus blooms again on individual branches in late summer, but these fruit buds do not manage to ripen. I have observed this in some years. It may be related to the weather in summer. - It is simply an early opening of the buds that were formed for the next season. But it does not harm the winter hardiness in any way, as the opening does not happen during the dormant period but long before the plant goes into dormancy. The winter hardiness is not affected by this.

Much worse is if Poncirus wakes up too early when temperatures are too warm in early spring, followed by frosts. Poncirus is particularly at risk in a location facing south, perhaps in front of a wall, where the temperatures warm everything up too quickly, for example due to the winter sun, and the sap and shoots start to sprout. A frost can then damage it severely, sometimes to the point of complete death.

In order to give a more complete picture of the fruit comparison described here with Poncirus-like fruits, I would like to give two more short feedbacks, which come from two citrus friends who have also tasted some of the fruits mentioned by Skandiberg.


Feedback from A)

All in all there is only one result: your new HRS fruit, around only 5 seeds, sweet, sour, aromatic Bajusz no comparison Poncirus # 7 new fruit over d > 6cm, juice sour but also no comparison. "


Feedback from B)
 
HRS 899 O/Q was very good. I could drink the juice neat. I also found Hybrid #8 very good. I liked the aroma of HRS 899 O/Q a little better because of the mandarin notes, but Hybrid #8 didn't have a bad aftertaste either. I found Hybrid #7 disappointing, but it was as I remembered it. It's a kind of milder Poncirus, which is good in that respect, but it's clearly behind the others. My relatively negative assessment of Hybrid #7 was also due to the fact that I had tasted my PT #1 at the same time, which at first glance just tasted good, but then had a slightly not entirely pleasant aftertaste, but was definitely better than #7. Bajusz was just as good as my PT #1. So my conclusion about the fruit is: HRS 899 Q/O is the plant of choice for the most important breeding projects. Hybrid #8 comes right after that, closely followed by my PT #1

(Note: His PT #1 he discovered from a bunch of purchased Poncirus seedlings, which produces significant better fruits than common PT)

I'm really happy about your comment. Do you know why? I got this Poncirus from a citrus friend to test. He bought the plant many years ago from Woodlanders Inc. under the name "Poncirus trifoliata". He asked me to tell him my impression of whether it was Poncirus. So, when I compare the fruit with the fruit of my neighbor's Poncirus, one of the externally noticeable differences is actually the navel on the fruit, plus the smaller size and the greener color, which may indicate that it is not yet fully ripe. I could imagine that this Woodlanders Poncirus is not a pure Poncirus, but perhaps an F2 generation of a Poncirus-Citrus hybrid, or a backcross of a Poncirus-Citrus hybrid with Poncirus. What do you think? Or do you think that is a pure Poncirus?

Attached is a picture with several fruits of the Woodlanders Poncirus compared to my neighbor's Poncirus.

Hello, I'm interested in citrus precocity. I don't mind the trait is recessive. Are there any places with seeds or cuttings? Are there aternatively any other precocious citruses?

I currently have few fruits and seeds available from an improve hardy poncirus hybrid and also from a good and hardy precocious poncirus hybrid, 1 fruit of each variety 2,50 EUR

When tasting the fruits of the Flying Dragon tree and HRS899 O/Q, I made a completely unexpected discovery.

But let me first tell som background:

I have planted a Flying Dragon tree about 20 years ago, which was suffering for a long time, then slowly started to grow, but in the meantime was overtaken by the Trachycarpus fortunei that surround it, so that it is now in their shadow. I have never tasted its fruits.

In addition, as posted here in the forum some time ago, I have a seedling of the Hybrid HRS899 (Poncirus x Chasgha mandarin), which has survived many frosts down to -17°C for over 20 years without any damage, and a graft of the same survived -20°C and in following night -19°C this winter without any damage. I once received this seedling and other siblings of this seedling for testing from the citrus breeder and citrus gardener Bernhard Voß, who had received the seeds from the Florida Arboretum. But only this seedling survived and after tasting the fruits, several citrus friends classified them as interesting and better than Poncirus trifoliata or Poncirus Hybrid #7.

Now this year - for whatever reason - a surprise came:

I tasted both fruits together and, lo and behold, the fruits of this Flying Dragon are quite pleasant to taste! The skin also does not have any strong unpleasant aromas typical of Poncirus. Of course, the skin of my HRS899 tasted better in the tasting, but in terms of the quality of the flesh, in my opinion, both are not far apart. However, I only tasted one HRS899 fruit because I have a lot of requests, so I took the one that was lying on the ground and was the very first to fall off three weeks ago. Could this be the reason why the aroma, especially the mandarin note, is not so exceptionally pronounced?

As I said, I had never tasted the fruits of my Flying Dragon before, so I cannot say how they would taste in a normal hot, dry summer and of course without sun protection from palm leaves.

But let me put one thought out there:

Is the reason for these two fruit tasting results the rainy year, because here it rained extraordinarily much from spring through summer and into autumn, and the sun shone correspondingly less.

Perhaps a lack of sunlight reduces both the good and the unpleasant aromas? Could that be the case? What do you think?Pleas let me know your experiences and your thoughts.

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Here are two more pictures showing the sliced ​​fruits that we tasted. You can clearly see the number of seeds, the thickness of the fruit skin and also the appearance of the juice.


Fruit of my HRS899 O/Q


Fruit of my Flying Dragon