Author Topic: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial  (Read 40754 times)

tedburn

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #375 on: November 08, 2021, 11:54:17 PM »
This are very interessting positive news, fruits after 3 years from seeding !!!  Could there have been genes of precautious poncirus in this seeds ?
All what I ever heard is that in our colder climates blossoms and fruits of citrus seedlings need at least 5 to 8 years if its early ?
So this is a very encouraging case - congratulation Kumin  :D.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #376 on: November 09, 2021, 12:52:31 AM »
I obviously don't know if the seed parent tree was self pollinated. My assumption is that it was. In all the thousands of Citrus, Poncirus and hybrid seedlings I've grown, I'd never seen any fruit this quickly. Due to the long juvenile period observed in grapefruit, this came as quite a surprise.

SoCal2warm

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #377 on: November 09, 2021, 01:29:36 AM »
I'm in zone 8a in the US, at a similar latitude to you (well maybe just a little bit less far north than Mühlacker).
I have multiple varieties that have been in the ground for 3 years and none of them have fruited yet. Well, only two (the Sudachi and Keraji) of them have seemed to begin to form just the tiniest beginnings of little fruits, but they never ripened in time and eventually fell off.
Of course something hardier like citrange might behave a little different. My Dunstan citrumelo has a reached a fairly medium size and still no appearance of fruits. But grapefruits are known to take much longer until they begin producing fruit.

Due to your more continental location, the summers where you are do just get a little bit warmer than where I am. About only 2 degrees F (just a little bit more than 1 degree C) but that can make a difference. Maybe your plants put on more growth during the growing season.

See, I'm growing in the Pacific Northwest region, and while hardy citrus may easily be able to survive through the level of cold there, they just have trouble putting on much growth through the year, due to short duration of the summers and the cool temperatures throughout most of the year, it seems to me.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 01:39:55 AM by SoCal2warm »

Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #378 on: November 09, 2021, 03:53:24 AM »
I got a bit of shock today as I was watering my seedlings in the cold frame. I happened to look up at the roof plastic film and did a double take. One of the  31 month old 5* citrumelo seedlings has 4 fruit in the upper branches. I consider this to be quite precocious. The tree is a bit over 9 (3 M )feet tall. The tree likely flowered a bit late as the fruit aren't ripe at this time. So I suppose it's a precocious citrumelo! This tree was germinated from seed in April 2019

Thanks Ilya, this tree originated from seed you provided.

Congratulations, 3m growth in two years is quite an achievement.
This probably explains the precocious fruits.
In my climate 5star seedlings  usually start flowering at this height, but it is reached only in 5-6 years.
Since these fruits are still green, they probably come from the late flowering in summer.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #379 on: November 11, 2021, 11:15:21 AM »
I'm questioning whether having the apical leader strike the ceiling and deflect has any bearing on the early fruiting of 5 star citrumelo?



Additional plants approaching the ceiling, which will not be clipped back.


Ilya11

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #380 on: November 11, 2021, 11:53:32 AM »
It really depends on the variety.
With hybrids of 5star I systematically observed the first flowers on the top branches in-curved to grow horizontally, while on ichangensis, its hybrids  and Thomasville it starts on the lower horizontal branches.
Best regards,
                       Ilya

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #381 on: November 12, 2021, 05:54:45 AM »
Current photo of monofoliate Conestoga 058, the most Citrus-like in appearance of the original trial seedlings. this selection is vigorous and has good graft takes. It remains dormant a bit later in Spring, but grows too late into Autumn. I'm anticipating tasting this fruit when it transitions into mature phase. The leaves release a fragrant scent if they're bruised. A graft of this tree survived out doors last Winter, but had considerable cold damage.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 03:47:53 PM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #382 on: November 18, 2021, 10:43:12 AM »
5* Citrumelo in the center, with Poncirus+ on the left, and F2 Citranges on the right side.

Poncirus+ is showing strong deciduous habit. The F2 Citranges are variable from fully deciduous to strongly evergreen. 5* is the most persistent evergreen of all the hybrids I have at this point.



Taitri seedling showing deciduous habit.TaiTri is inconsistent, with some trees being persistent, while others are rather freely deciduous. The tall, slender growth habit and similar narrow, long leaves of TaiTri initially led me to suspect they were nucellar seedlings. However, they vary in deciduousness, hardiness (some tops are already cold damaged, while others show no damage). There are also nuanced variations in branching and foliage.



hardyvermont

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #383 on: November 18, 2021, 12:14:04 PM »
"Taitri seedling showing deciduous habit.TaiTri is inconsistent, with some trees being persistent, while others are rather freely deciduous. The tall, slender growth habit and similar narrow, long leaves of TaiTri initially led me to suspect they were nucellar seedlings. However, they vary in deciduousness, hardiness (some tops are already cold damaged, while others show no damage). There are also nuanced variations in branching and foliage."

That's great to know.  Seedlings look alike and I assumed they were nucellar.

mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #384 on: November 18, 2021, 01:56:38 PM »
because of the uniformity, i also suspected that they are most likely clones. very good to know.

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #385 on: November 18, 2021, 02:58:15 PM »
I agree with the observation that there's a lot of conformity. To be more certain they should be tested with a pollen donor that's very distinctive. If my seedlings are indeed clones, I will have more than I need, due to limited cold frame space. At present my plants are becoming quite crowded. An Arctic Blast might quickly cure that issue!

Perplexed

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #386 on: November 18, 2021, 04:00:45 PM »
If you need help getting rid of some taitri for space im here  ;D

mikkel

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #387 on: November 19, 2021, 03:53:24 AM »
@kumin  It's good when a cure is so easy to reach ;D

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #388 on: November 19, 2021, 04:31:27 AM »
Mikkel, root separation becomes very difficult as closely planted trees grow larger. Within pots, jets of water can remove the soil, making the task somewhat easier. In the ground, not so easy.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2021, 07:02:50 AM by kumin »

kumin

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Re: F2 citrange winter hardiness trial
« Reply #389 on: November 24, 2021, 04:11:07 PM »


Taitri seedling showing deciduous habit.TaiTri is inconsistent, with some trees being persistent, while others are rather freely deciduous. The tall, slender growth habit and similar narrow, long leaves of TaiTri initially led me to suspect they were nucellar seedlings. However, they vary in deciduousness, hardiness (some tops are already cold damaged, while others show no damage). There are also nuanced variations in branching and foliage.


[/quote]

Upon closer observation, I need to retract the statement that TaiTri shows considerable variability. Upon closer inspection I see that the differences in leaf yellowing in preparation for leaf drop is now minimal. I looked at photos of the very young seedlings, there's a bit of difference, but much less than as apparent in the F2 citrange seedlings. I now must agree with other members who came to the conclusion that TaiTri is largely nucellar.

Lots of conformity, with an exception or two.


Another example of similarity among seedlings


TaiTri seedlings on the left side, a bit older, .


 

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