Author Topic: Concerning hand pollinating soursop  (Read 4196 times)

JoeP450

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Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« on: November 20, 2019, 09:39:33 AM »
Hey Forum,

Wondering if anyone could share some links or first hand experience with hand pollinating soursop. Looking for specifics on timing and flower stage. I have a “Miami” soursop from Lara farms in flower right now.

-Joep450

roblack

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 01:26:26 PM »

johnsonw

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2019, 10:40:52 PM »
Have you looked at any of Jason Pepes videos? He just put a book out about this. I’m about to order it myself.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1710046872

Regards,

Will

johnb51

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #3 on: November 22, 2019, 08:39:23 AM »
I understand that the Miami soursop was selected because it bears heavily without hand pollination.  I have a similar seedling tree that bears heavily.  If I were to hand pollinate, the overabundance of fruit might damage the tree.
John

FMfruitforest

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2020, 07:22:20 AM »
Is this the flower in right stage for hand pollinating?




FMfruitforest

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2020, 09:27:48 AM »
I thought i did a rather fine job of getting pollen on the gooey stigma @ 5.30 am but still not seeing a fruit set, there must be something I am missing. I see another Florida grower has removed a couple soursops from his yard because they did nothing for him, he did show one of his soursop trees that is actually a producer and loaded with fruit with no hand pollinating.  Im just curious why some soursops seem so reluctant to set fruit. From looking at how the pollen falls and is collected near the stigma on the petals naturally it seems to me it should set fruit rather easily on its own.

skhan

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2020, 11:15:53 AM »
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0063PG40G/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_fabt1_8n9VFb3ZEJ4NC

I've used this in the past with pretty good success. My father in law tried it on his tree too, first time he got fruits.
At least this is what works in our limestone and sand soils

Zinc, iron and boron seems to help annonas set fruit.
There is a research paper from India the goes into it. I've linked it in the forum a few times.

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2021, 10:22:32 AM »
Reactivating an old post because I have the same question.

I have a soursop that is in serious flowering mode.  Over the past month I am sure I have seen well over 20 flowers.  Not one set fruit.  I assume it is running its course now and will like to see if I can help it along by pollinating a couple of the flowers so I can get some fruit from the tree.

I have tried using a brush to pollinate taking pollen from open flower and using on partially open but I thin my timing must be wrong.  Any first hand experience on successful hand pollination and what should I be looking for?




Picture from today, two flowers, one open and lost its petals the other not open yet.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 10:26:21 AM by Orkine »

Guanabanus

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2021, 10:49:35 AM »
At least with the varieties that I worked with, the pollen became available at full darkness, a half hour or more after sunset.  Wearing a head lamp, so I could gather the anthers and pollen in a film bottle, using both hands, I would use the pollen right then, at its freshest.  Time availability to do it, and temperature, are usually good then--- if there aren't hordes of mosquitos.

Brushes did not work well.  For flowers on flexible branches, where I could turn the flowers upside down, I would pour in the anthers and pollen.
For stiff positions, where the flowers cannot be turned up without breaking them off, I would smear pollen up them on my index finger.

Fruits resulting from carefull, full hand-pollination are usually more symmetrical and far larger than fruits resulting from partial pollination by insects.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 11:05:03 AM by Guanabanus »
Har

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2021, 11:09:55 AM »
Thanks Har, looks like I have homework for the next few nights.

I broke a petal off the one that is closest to being ready to open (already partially open in picture below) I will keep an eye on this tonight and tomorrow.

I have also included pictures of a few more that are not quite there yet but perhaps later this week.



Will be keeping an eye on this one tonight


Perhaps a few more days for this one


Even longer for this


Same as the one just above but shows the older flower that opened already better


I expect this to drop off but I will keep an eye on it in case it got pollinated and sets fruit
« Last Edit: October 30, 2021, 11:16:04 AM by Orkine »

mangokothiyan

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2021, 03:23:56 PM »


Fruits on my Miami soursop tree develop to the size of a fist or even bigger and then turn black and fall. This has been happening for the last 3 years at least.  Anyone else dealing with the same problem and know how to fix it?

Guanabanus

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2021, 08:59:01 PM »
Have you tried bagging the fruits, when they are about the size of a quarter?
Har

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2021, 09:13:07 AM »
......
For stiff positions, where the flowers cannot be turned up without breaking them off, I would smear pollen up them on my index finger.
...
So I gave it a go with the first flower (alas it was this morning), The pollen still looked fresh but I am not not as fresh as it would have been last night.  I have to remember to look after dark the next few evenings.  Fortunately I have several more flowers to work with.

mangokothiyan

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2021, 09:22:31 AM »
Have you tried bagging the fruits, when they are about the size of a quarter?

I have not. I will do that. The tree has flowers right now.

Thanks, Har.

roblack

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2021, 12:15:58 PM »
Just keep trying. Morning, daytime, and at night.

Whenever I see the fallen petals of a flower, I go to it.

Sometimes it takes weeks to tell if you were successful.

Fertilization schedule helps with fruit set.

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2021, 09:19:31 PM »
Just came in from a trip to the tree.
Two flowers tonight and I think at the right time.
The petals were open but had not come off.
Some type of cap fell off and lots of pollen too as soon as I touched the flower, same in both cases.  I was able to apply the pollen and I feel good about these ones I could see yellow pollen on my finger and it was sticky so I believe some got transferred.

Now we wait.  I still have a few flowers that will mature over the next several days including one on a different tree that should open tomorrow. 

Question:  Any chance I can save pollen from tonight to use to cross pollinate tomorrow night?

Guanabanus

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2021, 10:28:58 AM »
The "cap" that comes off is the full set of stigmas.  Don't expect the flower to be receptive after that--- it already wasn't receptive for quite a few hours before the stigmas came off.

You can try refrigerating anthers and pollen with dessicant packets included.  That works with atemoya pollen.
Har

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2021, 07:13:26 PM »
Thanks. 
I have one more due to open tonight.
I will try to get it earlier and see if I can get it to work this time with nothing falling off.

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2021, 07:30:13 PM »
The "cap" that comes off is the full set of stigmas.  Don't expect the flower to be receptive after that--- it already wasn't receptive for quite a few hours before the stigmas came off.

You can try refrigerating anthers and pollen with dessicant packets included.  That works with atemoya pollen.

Thanks Har, it crossed my mind it was something like that but I was not sure which is why I mentioned it.
Well I just did a new one, the flower had not opened fully and the pollen isn't falling out yet.  I used pollen from last night and I hope it works.



Guanabanus

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2021, 08:54:50 PM »
I always took the pollen to another flower, one just entering female stage.  In that closed-up, protective space, the pollen will stay fresh for a few hours, while the female stage matures.
Har

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2021, 01:15:26 PM »
The batch I did last week are still on the plant.  There is no color or green to suggest there is a fruit but the stalk didn't dry up and fall off.  Or hasn't in a week.  I take this as a good sign. 
I have 3 more flowers coming due to night or tomorrow night.  With the relatively low humidity we expect is it a good idea to bag them in a sandwich bag?  I know it assures no pollination unless I do it but would it keep things moist and receptive to hand pollination a little longer than if I left it open to the elements?


Guanabanus

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2021, 07:21:35 PM »
Sounds good.  And when you do momentarily open a flower to pollinate it, try not to break petals.  Re-close carefully.
Har

roblack

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2021, 07:23:32 PM »
Use a skinny brush! =)

FMfruitforest

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2021, 05:53:44 AM »
Flower petals have fallen and pollen is dropping, stigmas are still white, Im wondering if they are still receptive in this stage.




roblack

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2021, 11:45:07 AM »
You want to pollinate flowers before they develop anthers. Once they turn male, you have pretty much missed the window for fruit set. While there may be a little wiggle room time wise, you want to take your pollen and add to flowers that haven't opened all the way yet.

When you find anthers, you have pollen. Time to find a good female flower.

Others show hand pollinating flowers with their own anthers. I think they are fooling themselves.

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2021, 04:23:52 PM »
Thanks Rob, I have watched the videos that show hand pollinating flowers with their own anthers.  I know for atemoya that this would not work since the flowers are male by the time the petals are open and the anthers dropping.
I was not sure if this was the case with soursop and have tried what I saw as well as saving pollen and applying with a brush to other flowers.

Is your observation from your experience with soursop? 

My last couple used pollen I saved and refrigerated, but I broke off enough of the petals to get good access with my brush.  My next two which should be tonight or tomorrow will be with saved pollen with petals teased apart but not broken. 
I will eventually get this right. 

roblack

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2021, 10:15:31 PM »
I've tried to pollinate enough guanabana flowers with their own pollen to know that it usually does not work.

I've had success using the method described.

Works great for rollinia too. Also, atemoya and sugar apple, I assume most/all annonas work the same way.

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2021, 03:02:20 AM »
Thank you.
The new attempts are with stored pollen.  Hopefully I will get a couple of takes.

FMfruitforest

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #28 on: November 16, 2021, 05:24:13 AM »
I have one tree that sets fruit well on its own. I have not seen  any nitidulid beetles on the tree or its flowers, I have only seen small ants and some flies on tree and flowers. Im thinking Maybe this tree sets fruit very well because it’s receptive to its own pollen.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2021, 08:58:28 AM »
I have one tree that sets fruit well on its own. I have not seen  any nitidulid beetles on the tree or its flowers, I have only seen small ants and some flies on tree and flowers. Im thinking Maybe this tree sets fruit very well because it’s receptive to its own pollen.
Is that a seedling or a named cultivar?
Is the tree in full sun?
Carlos
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FMfruitforest

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #30 on: November 16, 2021, 01:44:00 PM »

[/quote]
Is that a seedling or a named cultivar?
Is the tree in full sun?
[/q

Seedling from PIN. It does get the most sun outta the 3 trees flowering.

Guanabanus

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2021, 03:07:09 PM »
Bull ants are suspected to be pollinators.

Nitidulids are attracted to sweet-fruity-smelling flowers like Sugar-Apple flowers, not to alcohol-chloroform-smelling flowers, such as Soursop.
Har

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2021, 03:45:57 PM »
Har, I saw some ants (I assume bull ants) on the tree.  They were not on an open flower but on a tiny one just forming.
I was considering finding a way of dissuading them from visiting the tree without harming potential pollinators, only to find out they may be pollinators.  I hope they take care of a few flowers, I will be good with a poorly formed fruit or two, than no fruit at all. :)


Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2021, 03:48:43 PM »
I have one tree that sets fruit well on its own. I have not seen  any nitidulid beetles on the tree or its flowers, I have only seen small ants and some flies on tree and flowers. Im thinking Maybe this tree sets fruit very well because it’s receptive to its own pollen.
Is that a seedling or a named cultivar?
Is the tree in full sun?
Carlos, is full sun good or bad?
I have one tree in full sun, one is partially shaded and a third is in a pot currently parked in partial shade.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #34 on: November 16, 2021, 06:09:50 PM »
I'm not sure, I'm just beginning to get into annonas. The guy I know who has 5 acres with good production are in full sun. The ones I have SEEN IN SHADES AREAS DONT PRODUCE AS MUCH.
Carlos
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zone 10a Miami-Dade County

roblack

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #35 on: November 16, 2021, 09:59:38 PM »
There's definitely a colony of bull ants hanging out on my Guanabana tree. Maybe I shouldn't have nuked em with DE and slathered the tangle foot wrap with Vaseline to cut them off. While they may pollinate, they also appear to be farming pests, which may be suppressing fruit production.




Guanabanus

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2021, 09:13:13 PM »
The bull ants will have no reason to be there if the tree is clean.  They eat honey dew from the pests.
Har

roblack

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2021, 11:07:05 AM »
That is what appears to be happening Har.

Have seen low to decent fruit set with the ants around, and no help from me. If they do pollinate, they're not that great at it.

Much better fruit production and size with hand pollination.

Was checking flowers last night. 2 flowers were open, with an opening just big enough to fit the tip of a chopstick in it. Thinking they were female, I went to pollinate them. A ton of fresh pollen fell out, so instead just decided to collect the fresh pollen. Other flowers were barely opening in the middle, no pollen falling from them, so pollinated them.

My point is there is very little difference in outside appearance between a male and female flower. You probably have one plus day of a receptive female flower, that then turns male and has viable pollen for a day plus. Trying to catch them before the petals fall off, think that is a better strategy.

Found this today:


« Last Edit: November 26, 2021, 11:09:55 AM by roblack »

roblack

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2021, 06:46:50 PM »
...and this today:



Bigger fruitlet at early stage. Hand pollination appears to be helping with not only fruit set, but hopefully yield as well.

Orkine

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Re: Concerning hand pollinating soursop
« Reply #39 on: July 17, 2022, 09:20:27 PM »
At last, one made it and it was delish.
 


 

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