Author Topic: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree  (Read 1910 times)

Zafra

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Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« on: April 16, 2020, 07:50:10 AM »
Hi all. We have 4 giant seedling sapodilla trees on our property all of which produce lots of excellent fruit. But I’m curious to try a cultivated variety and had the opportunity to bring down a small Molix. One of our trees is especially tall and produces less than the others with most of the fruit too high to reach, so we decided it was a good candidate to cut back and graft at least a few branches with the Molix. I’ve done this successfully with citrus, mango and avocado but have never tried grafting sapodilla. Has anyone done this? How do you deal with the látex? Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for your input.

Zafra

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2020, 08:00:31 AM »
Bump. Anyone?

Zafra

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2020, 11:44:14 AM »
And my last bump. Apparently no one topworks saps?

BonsaiBeast

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2020, 04:56:22 PM »
And my last bump. Apparently no one topworks saps?

Most people are probably still waiting for theirs to fruit.


murahilin

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2020, 07:49:39 PM »
I've grafted sapodilla. The latex is tough to deal with so you need to work quickly to avoid too much latex.

Guanabanus

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2020, 08:05:17 PM »
Or have clean water to rinse with.
Har

murahilin

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2020, 09:18:59 PM »
Or have clean water to rinse with.

That too! I dipped in water after each cut.

Do you know of any chemicals that could be added to the water to stop the latex?

Zafra

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2020, 07:38:22 AM »
Aha water rinsing! Do you pat dry after rinsing or just leave it wet to graft?

shot

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2020, 08:43:16 AM »
How large the tree,diameter?You may need to cut back and wait for regrowth and then graft as normal.That is how I did a couple of mine, but the wood I cut back was only around 8 inches diameter.

Finca La Isla

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2020, 11:01:41 AM »
I graft sapodilla and don’t really worry about the latex.  I use a cleft graft and the latex just gets shoved to the side.
I would cut the seedling off at 3-5’ high and graft onto the sprouts.  Sapodilla is slow to push and needs to be enclosed in plastic, maybe with a little shade for at least 6 weeks.  I wouldn’t be in a hurry to take the plastic off.
Peter

Zafra

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2020, 09:05:47 PM »
Thanks everyone that’s great information. Yes we’re cutting back the tree to the main trunk trying to make the tree more manageable, and I’ll graft the sprouts when they get woody but are still green. That’s worked great for me with citrus, mango and avocado but I’m still worried about the latex with sapodilla - hard to believe it won’t interfere with the union.

Zafra

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2020, 07:50:18 PM »
Another question for you sapodilla grafters: do you prepare scions like we do for mango and avocado? Or what do you do to get ready to graft/select bud wood?

Finca La Isla

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2020, 10:44:40 PM »
We select tips for scion material when it is barely starting to bud out new. That’s the same as I do with mamey sapote and durian. Personally, I don’t do anything to force the bud or prepare it I just keep an eye out for when it wants to grow.
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Zafra

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2020, 07:23:43 PM »
For anyone interested I got my second sapodilla graft (first failed) to push in under 2 weeks having prepped the scion. Of course, I had to wait quite a while for the scion to be ready, so yes you're going to wait one way or the other, either before or after grafting. I prefer to do the waiting before the graft, though, so I can know fairly quickly if it takes or not.

FruitGrower

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2020, 07:13:22 AM »
I’ve been wanting to graft a sap too but I was hesitant based on reports of it being difficult but you’ve given me hope so thanks for sharing your experience. Can you share what you did to prep and what made the second graft successful? Was the latex an issue?

Zafra

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Re: Advice needed on topworking large sapodilla tree
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2020, 11:34:24 AM »
To prep a scion you remove its leaves and leave it on the tree until its buds start to swell, so you know it's full of energy and ready to push. My scion was from a HUGE seedling sap with spectacular fruit we want to propagate. Especially because the tree is so large, it took several weeks for even the slightest movement of the buds. I cut it as soon as the tip bud started to green up a little.
I'm NOT an expert grafter. I had a miserable take rate of about 50% with avocado and citrus (the easiest to graft) and 0% with mango. I got my 50% with clefts and modified clefts - I don't think I ever did a successful veneer graft. My luck changed when I started doing a version of the "gravedigger" graft (search the forum for gravedigger and you'll find the thread), which I would say is a modified bark graft. Suddenly my citrus and avocado percentage shot up to over 90% and I have similar results with mango. I cut off the branch where I want to graft, peel down the bark as for the gravedigger method (usually I leave a flap but it's not necessary) and cut the scion with a long cut on one side and a short wedge cut to a point on the other. I don't have buddytape or parafilm so I use regular plastic wrap which I like because I can pull it very tight for good contact, but I have to be careful to remove it after the graft takes or it will girdle. I'm mostly topworking established trees/seedlings and this method has been virtually fail-proof doing that. Rootstocks in bags are harder to graft because they just don't have the vigor of planted out trees with good root systems, so my luck with those has been considerably less but still better than I had with other techniques. The only caveat with this method is the rootstock needs to be bigger than the scion so the flat cut of the scion has a flat surface to adhere to, otherwise you can only get contact on one edge and it's much less likely to take. If you're topworking or working on established seedlings it's easy to have rootstocks thick enough for most scions, but that can be a problem for rootstocks in bags. If you can, I recommend planting out rootstocks and letting them settle in for a year before grafting. Grafts are more likely to be successful and they take off like rockets on established trees.
As for the latex, I pretty much just ignored it but I do think the first attempt might have failed because I went too slow and maybe the latex started to dry up a bit. The second time I worked more quickly. I also did one with a non-prepped scion that looked it had a swelling tip and it hasn't started to push yet but it's still green. Like I said, you're going to wait either way.
Hope that was somehow helpful! :)