Author Topic: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao  (Read 2359 times)

pagnr

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Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« on: June 28, 2020, 08:03:24 PM »
Just wondering if anyone has ever seen fruit of either Biasong aka small flowered papeda and / or Samuyao aka small fruited papeda?
How do the fruit of either compare with Citrus hystrix/Makrut ? Are they fairly close or quite different? .

Plankton

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2020, 04:11:58 PM »
I was wondering about these other hystrix subspecies. Looks like there is not much info out there on that I could easily find.
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pagnr

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2020, 09:01:25 PM »
Yes they seem to be confined to the Philippines, and maybe rare there. I can find pics of the fruit, Samuyao is like a tiny Hystrix and Biasong like a longer smooth version.
I would like to find out if the fruit are that much different to Hystrix ? I guess they are distinct so must be somewhat different, but are they worth tracking down ??
There might be a few other close relatives also.

Plankton

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2020, 03:46:55 PM »
I was looking around because my friend has makrut lime that is thornless. She has had it for a long time and bought it randomly at a grocery store. It bears fruit and has no thorns, fruit and leaves just like Makrut. Have you ever heard of a thornless citrus hystrix? That is how I found the other subspecies, in searching here. Since they are mostly wild trees i assume most/all of them have thorns. She is Thai and tells me even her family in Thailand do not believe she has a thornless makrut.
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pagnr

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2020, 07:39:49 PM »
There are 3 varieties of  Hystrix budwood available in Australia. One has reduced thorns that don't get far past the leaf stalk, even more so as it matures.
The seedlings still seem to come out thorny.

Plankton have you and your friend tried growiing the seed from your friends thornless plant to see if they also come out thornless as seedlings
or if that plant is a one off ??

Plankton

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2020, 11:31:21 AM »


We have not planted the seeds. I was under the impression that citrus seeds do not produce the parent tree, so did not cross my mind to start some of the seeds; will plant some out. After searching around I read lime trees have a good chance of being true to the parent.

We do not live near each other so have to rely on mailing each other material. Looking forward to getting some seeds and budwood from her. Thanks so much for sharing what you know. Here is a photo of the tree. It isn't the best quality but I cannot see any thorns. She told me sometimes a thorn starts but stops short or falls off. She has had the tree for 20 years and bought it when it was a little over a foot tall.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 01:43:53 PM by Plankton »
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Plankton

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2020, 11:41:30 AM »
Sorry if I have hijacked your thread, pagnr, but I am very excited to discuss this topic you have started.
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pagnr

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2020, 06:55:58 PM »
Plankton, thanks for your posts, it's very interesting. Thank your friend for the photo.
Hystrix are highly identical from seed. I heard that bunches of seedlings are sold for their leaves in Thai markets.
Some Citrus vars are highly identical from seed, ie Key Lime. Rootstock vars need to have low seed variability to get uniform grafted trees.
Other vars are highly variable from seed.

Plankton

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2021, 12:40:56 PM »
update: Out of 4 fruits from the thornless tree, there were only 2 seeds. One seedling sprouted, which is about 6 inches tall now. It has thorns. Earlier this year, my friend bought a few thornless citrus hystrix in TX
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pagnr

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2021, 07:40:51 PM »
It is hard to say from that result. Obviously it doesn't give 100% thornless seedlings. Maybe if you grew more, it might throw a % of thornless seedlings.
Ether way you can propagate the thornless trait by grafting.

pagnr

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2022, 10:39:52 PM »
Just thought I would bump this topic, still interesting to find out.

pagnr

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2023, 06:36:24 PM »
Here is a comparison photo of the fruit.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1827547437646262&set=a.131387313928958
I found out further info that the fruit of Samuyao and Biasong are not identical to hystrix fruit.
Makes sense otherwise they wouldn't be seperate varieties.
The Phillipines name for hystrix seems to be balincolong.
Cabuyao seems too be used for Citrus macroptera.
Not 100% sure on this, as seems to be fairly rare even in the Phillipines.

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2024, 08:14:20 PM »
good morning everyone!  👋 Thank goodness someone else is wondering this, I have been researching citrus for a couple of years and this question came up, I know that Oscar Tintori has them in Italy but I don't know anyone who has bought it.  According to multiple genetic analyzes they always group macroptera, hystrix and micrantha.  Due to my deductions and morphology, I assumed that this would be the best evolutionary tree (cladogram) so I am passing it on to you here.  There are all the citrus fruits known and presented in scientific works, the rest would be hybrids.  If someone can try and smell the leaves, I would like to know this question I have, if the aroma is in all of them?  , since I made hybrids with kaffir lime and very few lasted with that aroma, it seems that it is not very dominant.


hardyvermont

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Re: Citrus hystrix/Makrut vs Biasong vs Samuyao
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2024, 07:43:55 PM »
Juvenile citrus plants frequently have thorns that do not persist in the mature fruiting plant, so your plant may eventually be thornless as an adult.