Author Topic: Pomello leaf drop  (Read 2168 times)

Plantinyum

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Pomello leaf drop
« on: June 13, 2021, 02:41:55 AM »
My pomello is once again performing leaf drop. The plant is grafted onto a flying dragon rootstock. As u can see from the pics its in a heavy bloom mode right now and I was wondering if this is the reason for it to drop some of its leaves ,which look green and healthy (new and old leaves are falling) .Now I should mention that they did not practically fell on their own ,I was staking the plant and the fallen leaves fell with the slightest of touch.
Its been raining here on and off and  its soil is rather damp right now ,not soaking wet, yet damp.
Should I place the plant in my gh to avoid the soil getting more water?
In one of the pics u can see the quantity of buds I removed.











Millet

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2021, 02:48:24 PM »
As far as the blooms go, only about 1 to 1.5 percent of them will produce fruit.  Most blooms will eventually die on their own, or will set fruitlets, which will mostly drop (called June drop).  Research by Perdue University shows that one fruit left of a very small tree will not hurt the tree.  As to the leaf fall, I would ask two questions:  (1) how long has the tree been growing in that container without being transplanted, and (2) what is the blend of the growing medium that the tree is planted in?  Among the primary  reasons for leaf fall is a lack of soil air, and or a high level of soil CO2, both caused by soil compaction
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 04:31:27 PM by Millet »

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2021, 02:54:22 PM »
As far as the blooms go, only about 1 to 1.5 percent of them will produce fruit.  Most blooms will eventually die on their own, or will set fruitlets, which will mostly drop (called June drop).  Research by Perdue University shows that one fruit left of a very small tree will not hurt the tree.  As to the leaf fall, I would ask two questions:  (1) how long has the tree been growing in that container without being transplanted, and (2) what is the blend of the growing medium that the tree is planted in?  One of the primary  reasons for leaf fall is a lack of soil air, plus a high level of soil CO2, both caused by soil compaction
thanks for the feedback ,the tree was transplanted in this pot this spring , so root bound is not the case for sure. The soil is a mix of store bought soil for transplants and general pot culture and feeding, pine forest top soil and alot of perlite.
I kind of think it is the excess water that is persisting due to the rainy weather , thus I moved the plant in my smaller gh  to let it dry out a bit. My other citrus are all out in the same conditions, their soil is also like that, but they are not having the same problem yet....
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 03:04:56 PM by Plantinyum »

Millet

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2021, 04:35:17 PM »
As you wrote, it  could be too much water (over wet medium) which would of course drive out the root zone oxygen.  However, to cause damage, the over watering (Flood effect) would have to be more than 2 days.

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2021, 12:18:24 AM »
As you wrote, it  could be too much water (over wet medium) which would of course drive out the root zone oxygen.  However, to cause damage, the over watering (Flood effect) would have to be more than 2 days.
yes its like that for around two weeks ,maybe more ..I think its word with the pomello since its newly up potted  and there are no roots yet to use the water.

lebmung

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2021, 06:06:41 PM »
As far as the blooms go, only about 1 to 1.5 percent of them will produce fruit.  Most blooms will eventually die on their own, or will set fruitlets, which will mostly drop (called June drop).  Research by Perdue University shows that one fruit left of a very small tree will not hurt the tree.  As to the leaf fall, I would ask two questions:  (1) how long has the tree been growing in that container without being transplanted, and (2) what is the blend of the growing medium that the tree is planted in?  Among the primary  reasons for leaf fall is a lack of soil air, and or a high level of soil CO2, both caused by soil compaction

Millet, FD takes loamy soil and occasional floods very well, even with the lowest oxygen availability it can survive for a couple of weeks.
It's clear that the aerial parts don't get enough water and lose leaves.
Here I think it's a case of bad graft union. Also pomelo in general shows a lot of incombability with FD/PT

A second cause that I doubt would be a high chloride residue from water, but is this case other trees would suffer as well.

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2021, 02:59:05 AM »
As far as the blooms go, only about 1 to 1.5 percent of them will produce fruit.  Most blooms will eventually die on their own, or will set fruitlets, which will mostly drop (called June drop).  Research by Perdue University shows that one fruit left of a very small tree will not hurt the tree.  As to the leaf fall, I would ask two questions:  (1) how long has the tree been growing in that container without being transplanted, and (2) what is the blend of the growing medium that the tree is planted in?  Among the primary  reasons for leaf fall is a lack of soil air, and or a high level of soil CO2, both caused by soil compaction

Millet, FD takes loamy soil and occasional floods very well, even with the lowest oxygen availability it can survive for a couple of weeks.
It's clear that the aerial parts don't get enough water and lose leaves.
Here I think it's a case of bad graft union. Also pomelo in general shows a lot of incombability with FD/PT

A second cause that I doubt would be a high chloride residue from water, but is this case other trees would suffer as well.

it may be incompatibility ,I dunno much about this subject thought. One thing that is true is that this plant hase never grew well for me ,the graft union looks very good and has healed well.
The problem cant be chlorine, I do not water with city water. I use rain water and well water.
Could it be then the overly moist soil taking a hold on the graft ,as a result of the incompatibility ,if there is any ??

Millet

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2021, 03:33:47 PM »
I do not think it is compatibility issue.  Even if it was it would not show up this early

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2021, 03:53:15 PM »
I have another question about the plant, some of the buds  while forming and growing have their stigma sticking out ,is this normal ?? Its generally the largest bud from every bud cluster, that also happens to be the central one. Are those buds ment to fail as their stigma is exposed to the elements ?? Wondering if I should just remove them now ...
« Last Edit: June 15, 2021, 03:55:32 PM by Plantinyum »

lebmung

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2021, 06:31:42 PM »
Leave the plant alone it will sort out how many fruits it will set. I read several studies made in China and most ruled out PT as a rootstock for Honey Pomelo.
There is only one way to find out if it's incompatible to FD.
In Southern Thailand they don't use any rootstock for pomelo. They use air-layering. It's vary easy to do it in summer. Then you will see which grows faster and fruits better. I put my bets on air-layered plant.

It's being raining here everyday heavily for the past two weeks. None of my citrus lost even a leaf. They are all doing great soaked in water. As long as the temperature is over 18 C they will do just fine.

Millet is right about the root problems, but I see them start with autumn cold rain, not now.


Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2021, 03:54:01 AM »
Leave the plant alone it will sort out how many fruits it will set. I read several studies made in China and most ruled out PT as a rootstock for Honey Pomelo.
There is only one way to find out if it's incompatible to FD.
In Southern Thailand they don't use any rootstock for pomelo. They use air-layering. It's vary easy to do it in summer. Then you will see which grows faster and fruits better. I put my bets on air-layered plant.

It's being raining here everyday heavily for the past two weeks. None of my citrus lost even a leaf. They are all doing great soaked in water. As long as the temperature is over 18 C they will do just fine.

Millet is right about the root problems, but I see them start with autumn cold rain, not now.
I dunno, it has been coldish here lately ,due to the rains and not much sun, at day the temps are around 20-25C ,at night they are around 10 c,quite cold for the season so far.
Ok I wont thin any more of its flower buds, will try to manually pollinate as much as I can , Ive heard citrus does not need hand pollination ,but I dont see many bees usually at my yard to do the work for me.
I really like the idea of layering, thought the plants is very small so I dunno ,on own roots it may bring out its vigor since I have a seedling which is one summer old and its already as tall as the grafted one,started to branch out nicely also....it does not show any stress whatsoever and it was in the same condition as the grafted one...
For the sake of safety I brought all my citrus under my polyethylene greenhouse ,away from rain.

850FL

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2021, 01:17:02 PM »
I have a bunch of year-old flying dragon seedlings that sprouted from buried fruit in a seasonal stream bed and it has been flooded for probably 6months now  and they are still fine..
Pomelos are more vigorous than FD though
« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 01:19:14 PM by 850FL »

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2021, 03:08:54 PM »
I have a bunch of year-old flying dragon seedlings that sprouted from buried fruit in a seasonal stream bed and it has been flooded for probably 6months now  and they are still fine..
Pomelos are more vigorous than FD though
I have also one small fd seedling plant, which is also not doing very well, but I has really been colder than normal all spring so it may have to do with this. I think it may have to do with my soil also, dunno it may be too fancy for them, Ive seen citrus thriving in sandy/ clayey soil.....I may have to try that ....

Whitethorn

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2021, 08:31:38 PM »
My cara cara orange did the same thing the last two years after pushing out large numbers of flowers. And my black sapote just did the same after pushing out lots of blooms. Your citrus appears to be flowering. If it produces a super bloom of flowers you may be seeing a similar phenomenon. I don’t know what causes this but it appears to have something do with a superbloom of flowers.

poncirsguy

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2021, 11:22:54 PM »
Every New Zealand lemonade tree I have super blooms.  Those in containers will bloom to death. A 10 gallon tree bloomed for 6 months putting out over a 1000 flowers and died.  I pick of the flowers when they are small enough to need a 10X magnifier with tweezers.  I will let some bloom and set fruit.  If I don't pick the next flowers the tree will drop formed and growing fruit to send energy to new blooms and eventually kill the tree.  My in ground NZL can push through and produce 40 fruits for a 4 cubic meter canopy tree.

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2021, 02:16:14 PM »
Yeah I think the pomello might have had the superbloom thing going on, I havent counted the flower buds but the number was arround a 150 I think from which I let arround 50-60 to bloom. I may be exaggerating those numbers a bit.
The plant set on its own around 15 fruitlets ,I let it hold 4 which are growing fast and are with the size of a large hazelnut.
The leaf drop has stopped wright when it stopped flowering .....
I have a question about the ripening of the fruit, If it decides to hold them, will they ripen this winter or the next spring? How many months from fruit set to ripeness for pomello??
Thanks a bunch !!☺

brian

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2021, 09:31:07 PM »
my Valentine and Chandler pummelo fruits are about softball sized right now.  I don't recall when they ripen, though. 

W.

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2021, 10:03:25 PM »
That does not seem like a particularly large pomelo considering the number of blooms and the size of the (potential) fruit. How many fruits would a pomelo of that size be able to support?

poncirsguy

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2021, 11:35:46 PM »
That does not seem like a particularly large pomelo considering the number of blooms and the size of the (potential) fruit. How many fruits would a pomelo of that size be able to support?
0 fruits.

W.

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2021, 12:43:37 AM »
That does not seem like a particularly large pomelo considering the number of blooms and the size of the (potential) fruit. How many fruits would a pomelo of that size be able to support?
0 fruits.

I guess that is why it is dropping all of its blooms. I am just curious since I have a few small pomelos and on occasion have thought about how big they will have to get before they can hold any fruit, without the fruit breaking the tree.

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2021, 02:00:18 AM »
Here is the plant right now ...one thing I remembered that I did in order to try to stop the leaf drop was shutting of the watering. I let the soil dry out between waterings and watered and I am still watering with much less amount of water. Do not know if this is the reason the plant fixed itself but I surely think if helped.
I also know that the plant is smallish to fruit now, but I have been growing it for 3 years and I haven't let it fruit past years in order for it to gain size, yet it never really grew the way I expected it to. I am letting it fruit since it doesn't want to grow vegetatively. I am thinking of discarding two of the fruitlets and leaving only two.








poncirsguy

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2021, 09:20:52 AM »
My theories on fruiting potted citrus trees follows.  Container citrus trees are so hard to keep healthy that I let them fruit over growing so that I get some fruit if the tree dies next year.

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2021, 10:35:45 AM »
My theories on fruiting potted citrus trees follows.  Container citrus trees are so hard to keep healthy that I let them fruit over growing so that I get some fruit if the tree dies next year.
that was funny, one more plus to this method in my case may be getting seeds from the fruits for planting. I have one seedling which is growing nicely ,one summer old ,yet taller and looking healthier than this one.

poncirsguy

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2021, 12:46:01 PM »
If your seedling is the same variety as your fruiting tree you can graft a mature bud to your seedling tree's lower trunk and have a mature tree on its own roots.  I am doing the same with a New Zealand lemonade tree.

Plantinyum

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Re: Pomello leaf drop
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2021, 03:49:42 PM »
Yes I am planning on grafting one of the branches of it with the problematic pomello thats grafted on trifoliate orange. Thats my plan if both of them make it trough winter....