Author Topic: Is this a Sumo fruit?  (Read 615 times)

EricSC

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Is this a Sumo fruit?
« on: October 30, 2021, 07:03:57 PM »
Is this a Sumo fruit?  Note that it does not have the typical little neck Sumo Fruits usually have.

I grafted the CCPP's bud to a Gold Nugget tree in last summer.   It grow into a small branch and produced 5 fruits in this year.   They are all the same size, pretty much a Washington orange size now.   What puzzled me is that none of them have the typical Sumo neck.

Do you Sumo fruits like this?

Goyo626

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2021, 07:36:56 PM »
This is shiranui (sumo) fruit from ccpp budwood. Do any of the fruit have the typical sumo shape?




sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2021, 11:11:21 PM »
Eric, take a few more photos of all 5 of your fruits. Some sumo will not have the bump on the neck. I had some first year fruits that looked similar to what you show but I need to see the other fruits photo. If you take a closer photo it should still show the skin texture as rough and pebbly. Most of my second year grafted branches have the normal looking fruits with the bump as shown in Goyo626 photo.

Also, I do notice that the scions from CCPP are not always the same since they have many trees.The first shiranui budwood from CCPP (2017) that I grafted had the sumo neck and it always had the same shaped fruits for the last 3 years. But some of my newer grafted budwood are showing similar fruits as your photo for the first few years. Also I can taste a little difference between the earlier grafted branch fruits and my newer grafts. The fruits with the neck seems to taste better.

Goyo626

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2021, 10:20:29 AM »
Sc4001992, did your shiranui have seeds? I was reading the info/field notes on ccpp (https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/citrus/CRC4249.html) and it makes an observation that the shiranui fruit from their tree had seeds. Also the second pic on that page kind of looks like Ericsc pic.

sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2021, 11:40:43 AM »
Goyo, no none of my Shiranui grafted branches (on different rootstocks) have seeds in them. Maybe in 50 fruits I found 1 seed, similar to the Sumo you would buy from the market (found 3 seeds in 48 fruits). Now I have 3 nice seedling trees I'm growing.

But I do notice that the Florida grown sumo fruit is slightly different, not as large as the Shiranui from the approved growers here in CA, but their fruits tastes excellent like the ones you would find here in markets in Feb. Also the CCPP budwood grafts are stronger and has a more vigorous growth, branches are larger. My 1 yr old grafts that are a few feet long holds 3-5 large fruits so I thin out to a few on each so the branches won't break. You probably saw my 2 yr old grafted tree (2017 budwood) which had 15 fruits on one graft that broke the branch (but not completely) so I had to do first aid and tape/bandage/add crutch to save it. It still ripened 13 large fruits that were very good. My other grafts from 2019 budwood is also huge and now has about 15 fruits on them.

Check out my sumo from previous years with the wooden branch for crutch support after it cracked from weight of fruits.









Goyo626

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2021, 11:48:03 AM »
It seems shiranui is very vigorous, precocious, and heavy bearing. On my 1yr old graft it set 20 fruit and broke the branch. Hopefully the taste is top tier.

sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2021, 01:07:46 PM »
Probably a good idea to thin the fruits if the branch is small. The fruit tastes very good, but if you pick it and eat immediately it will have a little acid/tartness which is how I like it. But some people let it sit for a while before eating the fruit.

Seanny

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2021, 05:23:47 PM »


A Sumo tree


1 of 2 fruits without top knot

sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2021, 05:36:42 PM »
Nice looking tree.

EricSC

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit? - Photos are added
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2021, 06:52:51 PM »

Photos of 5 fruits are added.   Two of them have the seeable traces of neck.   It was grafted to a mature gold nugget tree.












sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2021, 01:14:44 AM »
Eric,

It might be sumo, my sumo I grafted on my mature gold nugget tree has the neck showing. I have some fruits now on another graft that is 1yr old where it doesn't show any neck, but my fruits are more flatter. Here's some fruits I just picked off the branches since it is a 1 year old graft and the branch had to many fruits. These fruits weighed about 1/2 lb each.







I will let these fruits sit on the table for another week or so then eat them and check if there are any seeds and report back.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2021, 01:51:09 AM by sc4001992 »

sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2021, 01:46:54 AM »
Here's some other photos of my sumo grafted on another tree. This is the CCPP budwood from 2017 order.
Notice all of these fruits have the neck, and the fruits on these grafts ripen later, maybe not until Jan-Feb. I took these photos of the green fruits last week, I have 15 fruits on the tree. These grafted branches always had fruits with the neck.
















EricSC

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2021, 01:53:55 PM »
sc4001992,

Your photos are great. As you said, my fruits should be Sumo, which I grafted in 2020 with CCPP's bud.

Also interesting that you have the "flat" Sumo, which we never saw before.  Maybe you accidently developed a new variety ?


sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2021, 06:34:12 PM »
Eric, it will be interesting to taste the fruits of my newer grafts from 2020 and the older grafts from 2017. I will try to wait until Dec-Jan to do the taste test but I think the 2020 grafted fruits will fall off before Dec.

I have so many citrus varieties that it could be a sport, all my trees are multi-grafted with more than 10 varieites each so you never know. I have an excellent tasting satsuma I call "unk#1" which has small bumpy skin, peels easy, very sweet with a little tartness. It even tastes better now than my Xie Shen fruits, its the one that had 24 fruits on the small grafted branch that I grafted back in 2017 and lost the tag.
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=44898.msg442851#msg442851

Ckitto

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2021, 10:37:02 PM »
It can be flat or have bump in my experience. My picture showing 2 fruits from the exact same branch from CCPP, grafted onto Mineola tree. The fruit on the right was off-season (picked in August), hence the green color skin.


sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2021, 10:50:53 PM »
Ckitto, ok that good news. I hope they taste the same (good).

You saw my funny sumo with the fingers.? It was one large sumo that had 10 individual fingers (w/skin) stuck together and the inside fruits each tasted good just like the normal sumo. I call it my world's record sumo, it weighed 518 grams, but the record to me was the perimeter size of the fruit was 16-1/2". This one fruit was also on my 2017 grafted branch (photo with the branch support) that had the 15 fruits with the normal bump on the neck.

EricSC

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2021, 11:25:18 PM »
Dec-Jan could be too early.   Sumo might be like gold nugget which can hang on tree for several months.   I had gold nugget fruits picked in June.  The longer they hang, they taste sweeter. But it may cause the tree alternative bearing.

Eric, it will be interesting to taste the fruits of my newer grafts from 2020 and the older grafts from 2017. I will try to wait until Dec-Jan to do the taste test but I think the 2020 grafted fruits will fall off before Dec.

I have so many citrus varieties that it could be a sport, all my trees are multi-grafted with more than 10 varieites each so you never know. I have an excellent tasting satsuma I call "unk#1" which has small bumpy skin, peels easy, very sweet with a little tartness. It even tastes better now than my Xie Shen fruits, its the one that had 24 fruits on the small grafted branch that I grafted back in 2017 and lost the tag.
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=44898.msg442851#msg442851

sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2021, 03:17:02 PM »
FYI, I had to pick some of my shiranui/sumo fruits since my 2020 grafted branches were to small to hold the weight of these.

Here's a few photos of the sumo picked to early. The 3 sumo fruits were picked this week because my grafted branches couldn't hold the weight of these fruits. The sumo had no sweet taste, more tart than anything but I ate one. Very surprised to find 3 seeds in the one sumo that I cut up. Last year I did not find any seeds in 20 sumo fruits from my tree. I do notice that even though my budwood grafts are from UCR, CCPP orders, there seems to be two slightly different shiranui varieties. The one's I grafted in 2017 has the nice bump on the neck and it doesn't start to turn color until end of Nov and ripens by Feb. The newer grafts from 2020 do not have much of a neck as you can see in the photo, fruits are more flat, and they start turning color in Oct. I will wait until end of Dec-Jan to taste these again, hope these 2020 grafts get sweet. Also of note is that the 2017 grafted branches still have small green fruits, not full size yet. Maybe as Millet says, there are variation in the fruits. Maybe when the new grafts from 2020 gets older (2-3 yrs) the fruit coloring will follow the older 2017 grafted branches and taste will improve. If not, I will just cut off the new grafts and use my branches from 2017 on these trees.







sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2021, 03:18:35 PM »
Seanny, I wanted to ask you when did you graft your shiranui branches?

Seanny

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2021, 10:46:56 AM »
Iím guessing 2018, before the state came in to treat all my citrus trees.
First year the tree had 3 fruits.
2 didnít have top knot.

Most tangerine fruits 5í from Sumo tree had top knot.


Neighborís Kishu tree.
Itís all about pollens.

sc4001992

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2021, 12:45:31 PM »
Wow, I have never seen a Kishu fruit with a bump on the neck like that. I grow 2-3 Kishu trees and they all do not have that neck. Very interesting Kishu tree your neighbor has.

EricSC

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Re: Is this a Sumo fruit?
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2021, 01:54:36 PM »
I had a Kishu tree which some of its fruits often have some knots. 
Wow, I have never seen a Kishu fruit with a bump on the neck like that. I grow 2-3 Kishu trees and they all do not have that neck. Very interesting Kishu tree your neighbor has.

 

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