Old Potted Avocado Tree in Zone 8a

[Moomin]

Hello everyone

I was lucky enough to find an 18 years old, potted, seed grown Avocado tree for sale (for a really low price, too). This is quite amazing, because it is impossible to buy Avocado trees from nurseries here in Switzerland, let alone named cultivars. I know seedling trees might not bear good quality fruit, but they might as well do, so I wanna try my luck. I can take it home this Saturday.
The catch is, it apparently never fruited before, and hasn't even flowered, as the guy who sells it told me.

Does anyone know a trick to make it flower? It should be more than old enough already... Do you guys think putting it in a greenhouse will help? Apparently it is 2m tall, so I'll have to trim it a bit, but I have a self-built greenhouse available.

I will have to keep it potted so I can bring it indoors when it gets too cold, because our winters can get as low as -15° Celsius (rarely though, mostly it is more like -7°). Would a bigger pot help? I can't tell the size of the pot it has now yet, I will have to measure it when I bring it home.

Also, I somehow managed to kill every Avocado seedling I tried to grow during wintertime indoors, so I'm a bit concerned that it won't survive as well... They almost immediately get root rot whenever I water them during winter, even though I always try my best to be very careful and only water when they are dry. It's probably due to the lack of sunlight... In the summer they grow okay.

What do you experienced Avo-growers think? Is it even possible that it will flower, given the circumstances?

[Greater Good]

The trick to make it flower is to acquire scions of a known variety and graft onto your seedling tree.

[dorian]

"18 years old, potted"
Wow, I can't imagine how root bound that must be. Have you asked them if they've done anything to prevent it becoming too root bound? Maybe that's why it hasn't fruited.

[Moomin]

The trick to make it flower is to acquire scions of a known variety and graft onto your seedling tree.

I would, if I could... But impossible to find scions here.

"18 years old, potted"
Wow, I can't imagine how root bound that must be. Have you asked them if they've done anything to prevent it becoming too root bound? Maybe that's why it hasn't fruited.

That is an interesting thought, will definitely check the roots when I get it!

[Avofan]

You can’t save an avocado tree with that much trauma.
But you can learn how to grow an avocado from seed.
Start in a moist paper towel in a plastic bag and then move to a very tall pot with sandy soil like for a cactus. Under ideal conditions and with some luck in the seeds genetics you could have a seedling that’s 2m tall after two years. That would only be the best seed out of 100 and very good conditions. Once an avocado gets really rootbound or stressed it never recovers. I have tried to save a lot of them. So it’s better to make a new one and try to have it grow as fast as possible.

[Moomin]

You can’t save an avocado tree with that much trauma.
But you can learn how to grow an avocado from seed.
Start in a moist paper towel in a plastic bag and then move to a very tall pot with sandy soil like for a cactus. Under ideal conditions and with some luck in the seeds genetics you could have a seedling that’s 2m tall after two years. That would only be the best seed out of 100 and very good conditions. Once an avocado gets really rootbound or stressed it never recovers. I have tried to save a lot of them. So it’s better to make a new one and try to have it grow as fast as possible.

What trauma? It isn't even confirmed that it is root bound. I don't see any reason for not trying to keep growing it, as long as it looks okay. Besides, as I mentioned, I already grew several seedlings. They just never got older than a year...

Anyway; this is the tree, I brought it home today.



It has a few brown tips, but overall it looks okay, lots of new growth, too.
Anyone got an idea what the cause of the browning could be?




Also, a bit more concerning than the brown leaves, it seems to have a girdling root, altough it doesn't go all the way around.



I decided to leave it as it is for now and will repot in spring, when it gets warm enough to put the tree outside. I'm too much afraid to disturb it beyond repair now during wintertime... I guess it will manage to survive a few more weeks, since it's already been in this pot for a while.

[tritonus]

Hey Alicia

Yay someone else from Switzerland!
I don't have time right now for a full reply, but I would not give up on that avocado for sure.

I have some Mexicola and Fantastic avocado cuttings that I'm trying to root right now, and could spare some.

I just read your other post and it looks like we're in the same boat, I also order from Exoteninsel a lot haha, and got the exotic fruit fever about a year ago. Now I have found a 8000m2 plot where I'm planting everything.

And I'm mad at myself that I missed that liquidation sale from Tropenhaus Frutigen, I just emailed them a few hours ago if they have anything left.

Anyways, have a nice evening and read you tomorrow.

[tritonus]

If the tree was watered with tap water for 18 years, it could be calcium burn, or some nutrient lockout due to high ph? Repotting sounds like a good idea.

I had the same issue with root rot with seedlings. I'm not pro pesticides, but I've found that "Compo Revus" is extremely effective against Phytophthora...

What worked best without using pesticides, so far, is to plant a seedling in a Lechuza clay pebble pot without any soil, and keeping it indoors. It grew 3m in 2.5 years and touched the ceiling two months after this pic:



I had to use mineral fertilizers though.

[Moomin]

Hey Alicia

Yay someone else from Switzerland!
I don't have time right now for a full reply, but I would not give up on that avocado for sure.

I have some Mexicola and Fantastic avocado cuttings that I'm trying to root right now, and could spare some.

I just read your other post and it looks like we're in the same boat, I also order from Exoteninsel a lot haha, and got the exotic fruit fever about a year ago. Now I have found a 8000m2 plot where I'm planting everything.

And I'm mad at myself that I missed that liquidation sale from Tropenhaus Frutigen, I just emailed them a few hours ago if they have anything left.

Anyways, have a nice evening and read you tomorrow.

That's so cool! Where did you get those cuttings? I'd gladly try to graft one or two onto the tree, if that would still be possible (i don't have a lot of experience in grafting yet...) Maybe we could trade some cuttings (if I've got something you don't have yet)?

I wish I had that much space to plant things - or a decent sized, heated greenhouse would be nice... My garden will turn into a potted forest in the next few years at this rate (and my basement too, during winter...) I once saw a youtube video about a woman in Norway that built her house inside a greenhouse. But I doubt that will be allowed where I live, lol.

I literally read about the Tropenhaus-Frutigen sale the evening before it took place. They said it would start at 10am, so I made sure to arrive on time; but when I did, the place was already overrun for some reason . It was complete madness! Most of the really cool stuff was already dug out or claimed by others, so I really had to hurry. Many people immediately went after the bananas or were busy hacking up the huge Monsteras... The Citrus were also mostly gone already, as well as the papayas. They didn't really interest me anyway. But i'm especially proud of the natal plum that I got. I didn't even know what exactly it was (thought it was a strawberry guava or something like that) until the guy at the exit told me "wow, I didn't know we still had a natal plum here". And the suriname cherry seedlings that I dug out are very cool, too. I've got four that are doing really well, so I could also trade for one of them if you'd want one? Sadly the Acerola seeds from the fallen fruits that I collected didn't sprout at all. Should have taken cuttings, too...  The mother tree was way too big, no way to take that one.

If the tree was watered with tap water for 18 years, it could be calcium burn, or some nutrient lockout due to high ph? Repotting sounds like a good idea.

I had the same issue with root rot with seedlings. I'm not pro pesticides, but I've found that "Compo Revus" is extremely effective against Phytophthora...

What worked best without using pesticides, so far, is to plant a seedling in a Lechuza clay pebble pot without any soil, and keeping it indoors. It grew 3m in 2.5 years and touched the ceiling two months after this pic:



I had to use mineral fertilizers though.

Thank you a lot for the tips! That is a really impressive looking tree! I'm currently trying perlite-sand-cococoir mix with a bit of compost on top on a seedling that already lost all its leaves, sadly... It was potted in a very airy perlite-pottingsoil mix before, but since it was starting to die as well I now repotted it with said mixture. I don't think it will survive, though. I will try a new seedling with Lechuza, I have a bag of that at home anyway!

[spaugh]

If the tree was watered with tap water for 18 years, it could be calcium burn, or some nutrient lockout due to high ph? Repotting sounds like a good idea.

I had the same issue with root rot with seedlings. I'm not pro pesticides, but I've found that "Compo Revus" is extremely effective against Phytophthora...

What worked best without using pesticides, so far, is to plant a seedling in a Lechuza clay pebble pot without any soil, and keeping it indoors. It grew 3m in 2.5 years and touched the ceiling two months after this pic:



I had to use mineral fertilizers though.

Looks great

[Daintree]

What a find! It’s one tough tree if it is that old.
My thoughts are - only change one thing at a time. Location, wait a month, repot, etc.
According to the California Avocado Commission, they bloom and set fruit best at a temp of 65-75F, and they need full sun. A window, even a large one, is not full sun. Some good lights may help.  If it has been inside its whole life, that would explain not blooming. 
Have fun and good luck!!!

Carolyn

[Moomin]

What a find! It’s one tough tree if it is that old.
My thoughts are - only change one thing at a time. Location, wait a month, repot, etc.
According to the California Avocado Commission, they bloom and set fruit best at a temp of 65-75F, and they need full sun. A window, even a large one, is not full sun. Some good lights may help.  If it has been inside its whole life, that would explain not blooming. 
Have fun and good luck!!!

Carolyn

Yes, I too think that light deficiency might be a reason for the lack of flowers. The owner didn't really give a lot of details, but since the pot is quite heavy and they had a nice big window, it is very likely that the tree was kept entirely indoors. I will definitely put it out as soon as the last frosty nights are over! I have a nice west facing wall that gets a lot of afternoon/evening sun - I think it will like that. Thank you!

[fishie]

Hello everyone

I was lucky enough to find an 18 years old, potted, seed grown Avocado tree for sale (for a really low price, too). This is quite amazing, because it is impossible to buy Avocado trees from nurseries here in Switzerland, let alone named cultivars. I know seedling trees might not bear good quality fruit, but they might as well do, so I wanna try my luck. I can take it home this Saturday.
The catch is, it apparently never fruited before, and hasn't even flowered, as the guy who sells it told me.

Does anyone know a trick to make it flower? It should be more than old enough already... Do you guys think putting it in a greenhouse will help? Apparently it is 2m tall, so I'll have to trim it a bit, but I have a self-built greenhouse available.

I will have to keep it potted so I can bring it indoors when it gets too cold, because our winters can get as low as -15° Celsius (rarely though, mostly it is more like -7°). Would a bigger pot help? I can't tell the size of the pot it has now yet, I will have to measure it when I bring it home.

Also, I somehow managed to kill every Avocado seedling I tried to grow during wintertime indoors, so I'm a bit concerned that it won't survive as well... They almost immediately get root rot whenever I water them during winter, even though I always try my best to be very careful and only water when they are dry. It's probably due to the lack of sunlight... In the summer they grow okay.

What do you experienced Avo-growers think? Is it even possible that it will flower, given the circumstances?

18 years is quite an accomplishment. Do you know if the prior owner root pruned? Or what kind of maintenance was done during that time?

[fishie]

If the tree was watered with tap water for 18 years, it could be calcium burn, or some nutrient lockout due to high ph? Repotting sounds like a good idea.

I had the same issue with root rot with seedlings. I'm not pro pesticides, but I've found that "Compo Revus" is extremely effective against Phytophthora...

What worked best without using pesticides, so far, is to plant a seedling in a Lechuza clay pebble pot without any soil, and keeping it indoors. It grew 3m in 2.5 years and touched the ceiling two months after this pic:



I had to use mineral fertilizers though.

This is also quite amazing. Do you bring it outside at all? I would think it would be hard to keep watered with straight leca. I saw some plants at the airport in Hong Kong that were grown in pure leca doing very well, but not an avocado  . Great job!

[tritonus]

This is also quite amazing. Do you bring it outside at all? I would think it would be hard to keep watered with straight leca. I saw some plants at the airport in Hong Kong that were grown in pure leca doing very well, but not an avocado  . Great job!

Thank you! I never moved the tree outside, but it's in front of a south facing window. I found that clay pebbles work really well for keeping various plants indoors. When transplanting, it's crucial to not leave any soil on the roots, which is not feasible with older plants. I had zero diseases, pests or deficiencies so far. I use pots with a water reservoir, and the avocado tree drinks around 10 liters each week!

It works very well for coffe as well. This is my 3 year old arabica:


It's best to use RO-water or rainwater and remineralize with CalMag, but since 1 year I just use regular tap water and add Terra Aquatica (General hydroponics) 3-part fertilizier, until I have an EC of around 1.5.

[fishie]

This is also quite amazing. Do you bring it outside at all? I would think it would be hard to keep watered with straight leca. I saw some plants at the airport in Hong Kong that were grown in pure leca doing very well, but not an avocado  . Great job!

Thank you! I never moved the tree outside, but it's in front of a south facing window. I found that clay pebbles work really well for keeping various plants indoors. When transplanting, it's crucial to not leave any soil on the roots, which is not feasible with older plants. I had zero diseases, pests or deficiencies so far. I use pots with a water reservoir, and the avocado tree drinks around 10 liters each week!

It works very well for coffe as well. This is my 3 year old arabica:


It's best to use RO-water or rainwater and remineralize with CalMag, but since 1 year I just use regular tap water and add Terra Aquatica (General hydroponics) 3-part fertilizier, until I have an EC of around 1.5.

Wow, its fruiting, too! You have inspired me, I will give this a try  . I am surprised your avocado is using that much water indoors. Hope to see fruit on it someday soon  .

[drymifolia]

Tree size, not age, is what triggers a seedling avocado tree to begin flowering. That tree is too small. You'll need to pot it up to a larger pot and try to carefully root prune any girdling roots when you do that. Most avocado seedlings will fruit when they reach about 3 to 5 meters in height, but that's assuming normal healthy branches full of leaves. And some trees never flower.

As far as where to get scionwood in Switzerland, there's a flourishing avocado grove on a lakeside near Locarno, with many grafted varieties and maybe a few seedlings too. Maybe the person organizing that would share scionwood.

[Moomin]

18 years is quite an accomplishment. Do you know if the prior owner root pruned? Or what kind of maintenance was done during that time?

I have no idea, sadly... The owner wasn't there when I went to get it, she just put the tree out on the patio for me. I will find out when I repot - I'll post pictures again

[Moomin]

Tree size, not age, is what triggers a seedling avocado tree to begin flowering. That tree is too small. You'll need to pot it up to a larger pot and try to carefully root prune any girdling roots when you do that. Most avocado seedlings will fruit when they reach about 3 to 5 meters in height, but that's assuming normal healthy branches full of leaves. And some trees never flower.

As far as where to get scionwood in Switzerland, there's a flourishing avocado grove on a lakeside near Locarno, with many grafted varieties and maybe a few seedlings too. Maybe the person organizing that would share scionwood.

Ooof, I won't be able to let it grow that big... It won't fit in my house during wintertime When I first saw the tree I thought it looked awesome, but ever since I've seen the nice green plant from tritonus it looks quite shabby in comparison

I'll probably try grafting sometime in the future, if I manage to get scionwood anywhere. I recently heard of a fruiting tree in Brissago, maybe I manage to get a scion from that one... And thanks for the tip about the grove near Locarno, I heard of that from a fellow Swiss forum member, too and will definitely look into it!

[drymifolia]

I have a graft of the Brissago tree, it is actually holding one small fruit in my greenhouse. Unfortunately the graft that I did outside appears to have been killed by the freeze we had last week with a low of 22.4°F/-5.3°C. The varieties in the other lakeside grove are likely more hardy than the Brissago tree.

Just so you know, even grafted avocado trees usually need to get pretty big before they will produce much. You might get 1 or 2 fruit on a grafted tree that is small enough to carry indoors in winter, but it will likely decline in a few years if you don't let it get bigger.

[Moomin]

A little followup on the tree:

I put it outside on the balcony about two weeks ago, and finally repotted it today into a 70 litre pot (60cm diameter). The good news is that it rooted the old soil really thoroughly and the root ball was very stable and didn't collapse when I took it out of the pot. Also, there were almost no circling roots at the bottom. The bad part is that the tree must have been in a too small pot some time during it's younger years. I washed out the top roots to see what is going on, sadly forgot to take a picture of that... The thick main roots are all turning (girdling), as far as I can tell, and they formed like a big clump, growing under and over eachother. I don't think I can correct that without doing fatal damage to the tree. What also concerns me a little is that when I tried to loosen some of the outer roots, they just broke off immediately. They all seem very brittle in a way. I did try to loosen them up a little so they would grow nicely into the new layer of soil and I cut off one of the smaller girdling roots. The rest I left untouched. I also cut the tree a little bit to make up for the amount of damaged roots and took off one bigger branch. Not sure what to expect. Maybe it will inevitably die one day, or maybe I can still get it to grow some more with enough care?