Author Topic: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina  (Read 1982 times)

vnomonee

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Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« on: February 05, 2023, 07:43:00 PM »
A friend of mine who you can find on youtube (Lautaro Dix @lautarodix2272) has made these hybrids. Not sure which plants recieved the pollen to make the cross but here is a list he gave me. I've asked him to make an account here but if anything I can post the pictures. Let me know if you'd like more information:

Kumquat nagami hybrids

Tarocco rosso
Rangpur lime
Genoa lemon
Willow leaf mandarin
Limequat
Meiwa
Calamondin
Citrus maxima
Nova
Hindsii
Nippon orangequat
Makrut

Kumquat meiwa hybrids

Nagami
Genoa lemon
Rangpur lime
Chinotto orange

Genoa lemon hybrids:

Nagami
Meiwa
Sour orange
Chinotto orange
Tarocco rosso
Moro orange
Juice orange
Citrus maxima
Makrut
Willow leaf mandarin
Rangpur lime
Calamondin

Limequat hybrids:

Nagami
Makrut
Willow leaf mandarin
Tarocco rosso
Genoa lemon
Hindsii
Calamondin

Chinotto orange hybrids:

Willow leaf mandarin
Genoa lemon
Nagami
Meiwa

Poncirus hybrids:

Rangpur lime
Genoa lemon




« Last Edit: February 06, 2023, 05:45:34 PM by vnomonee »

mikkel

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2023, 02:36:42 AM »
Are these the mother plants?
So f.e. the first line is Tarocco rosso x Nagami?

vnomonee

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2023, 05:44:04 PM »
I am not sure which plant was mother or father, just copied the list as was sent with a little translating to English common name.
I will ask though!

Are these the mother plants?
So f.e. the first line is Tarocco rosso x Nagami?

Florian

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2023, 07:31:12 AM »
Sounds like a nice and knowledgeable guy on Youtube. It helps if you speak Spanish ;D. I would certainly like to see the crosses involving Citrus hystrix.

vnomonee

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2023, 08:29:50 PM »
Here's some of the hystrix hybrids (don't know what recieved pollen) there's x genoa lemon, x kumquat, x limequat :


x Genoa lemon


x Genoa lemon (some anthocyanin in new growth less than lemon and makrut)


x Genoa lemon (the most makrut scent, darker growth, no winged petioles)


x Nagami kumquat (no anthocyanin on new growth, no makrut scent)


2nd plant of x Nagami kumquat (some anthocyanin, no scent, bigger leaves)




x Limequat (no anthocyanin, no scent)







Sounds like a nice and knowledgeable guy on Youtube. It helps if you speak Spanish ;D. I would certainly like to see the crosses involving Citrus hystrix.

« Last Edit: February 12, 2023, 10:08:37 PM by vnomonee »

850FL

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2023, 01:39:33 AM »
How do you determine anthocyanin content?

mikkel

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2023, 06:23:26 AM »
this can be easily recognised by the colour of the new shoots. anthocyanin-free varieties are green, anthocyanin-containing ones reddish to red. anthocyanin is probably linked to the acidity of the fruit. Varieties with green shoots, i.e. anthocyanin-free varieties, tend to be low in acid.

vnomonee

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2023, 03:33:17 PM »
Yes the anthocyanin in plant description refers to new growth.

Btw YouTube has built in auto translate for videos, but it has to be enabled. Click the settings cog on the bottom right and you should see an auto translate option for your desired language

Till

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2023, 05:28:30 PM »
Mikkel, the link between anthocyanin content and sourness is a bit more complex I think. There are a number of species that do not contain anthocyanin in leaves and twigs (mandarins, oranges, all kumquats, pummelos [with perhaps one exception]) but can be sour. The link is most clear when it comes to citrons. As far as I remember two defect NOEMI genes result in the inability to produce anthocyanin in leaves and shoots and in the inability to accumulate acids in the fruits. But there may be other genetic factors that hinder plants to produce anthocyanin for instance a defect in the Ruby gene itself what is said to be the crucial factor in mandarins, oranges, kumquats and pummelos.

Blood oranges seem to be a special matter as an inactive Ruby gene was via mutation given a new function in fruit development. Yet neither my Moro nor my Amoa8 produce pink shoots or leaves. I can at least not remember any. They seem to be unable to produce anthocyanin for the purpose it was originally intended for namely sun protection.

vnomonee

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2023, 04:26:14 PM »
Rangpur lime x poncirus






martweb

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2023, 05:05:21 AM »
Would love to see as many informations as possible about those quat hybrids.

Nagami x Meiwa: did he receive any seedless habrids?
Nagami x Limequat: how is the taste of the fruits and how is the rind?
Or are those hybrids still too young?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2023, 05:08:35 AM by martweb »

Peep

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2023, 08:10:01 AM »
Would love to see as many informations as possible about those quat hybrids.

Nagami x Meiwa: did he receive any seedless habrids?

Nameiwa (Nagami x Meiwa) is already an established hybrid. Lots of nurseries in France sell it, I have one as well (still small). It's not seedless though.

vnomonee

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2023, 08:20:33 AM »
They're all seedlings, nothing is fruiting yet

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2024, 10:45:32 PM »
Hello everyone, my friend Victor made this post for me, I am the author of the crosses.  If anyone has any questions or wants to see a hybrid, I can upload photos, but I don't have fruit yet.  For this year I have hope for new hybrids with Poncirus, we will see if I surprise those who are looking for cold-resistant citrus fruits ☺️👌.  I have already become a user and I can share with you what you like... thanks to the forums and more I achieved everything I put into practice, so I can give you my experience to give back some of what others gave me.  Between everything we can do more 💪

Till

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2024, 03:00:05 PM »
Hello Lauta-hibrid,

thank you for your openness to give and share! And thank you for sharing information with us. You have a long list of interesting crosses. I am most curious to know how your Limequat hybrids develop. You are welcome to share any new observation about them.
I wanted to make crosses with makrut myself. But now I see that the leaf taste is largely not dominantly inherited. That is a very important information for me, though not the one I hoped for. I think you saved me a lot of time in that you did the experiment I wanted to do. I shall by oportunity only still check what happens when Markut and Ichang Papeda are crossed.

Oldmanfig

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2024, 07:25:44 PM »
I think this is great….I want to see more..😀🫡

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2024, 07:51:29 PM »
It's all a matter of experimenting, lemon x kaffir has given me the best results, although it may be that I was able to take care of more plants and statistically I achieved more hybrids to obtain those that inherited the aroma.  There I review the hybrids I made and their photos.  Only 3 hybrids of lemon and kaffir have that smell, the rest's smell is undefined until now.  Kumquat nagami, limequat eutis and most lemons did not develop odor.




















Fotos:
1° limón x kaffir 1
2° limón x kaffir 1
3° limón x kaffir 2 crecimiento
4° limón x kaffir 2 hoja
5° limequat eutis x kaffir
6° Nagami x kaffir 1
7° Nagami x kaffir 2
8° limón x kaffir (más plantas sin olor)
9° C. maxima x kaffir
10° Orange x kaffir

Till

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2024, 03:51:46 AM »
Thank you for the photos! I believed Pumelo x Kaffir would be trifoliate because of old otherwise recessive genes. That is not true then.

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2024, 04:43:51 AM »
If we see them and their connection, and the close relatives only see that they have very large winged petioles, that would be the common characteristic between them.  They also have anticyaninous (red) growths and young C. maxima, or some adults, have a kaffir lime odor.  so the trifoliate is derived characteristics only present in Poncirus and not an ancient characteristic.  Also Severina buxifolia, which is a sister branch of citrus, does not have trifoliate leaves, nor do its relatives.  so no, it does not seem that the ancestor is a trifoliate plant.  Then I upload the photogenic tree that I put together with "all the citrus fruits" discovered to date and on the same scale.  💪

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2024, 05:50:03 AM »
It took me a long time to create it, I hope it helps you.  and I don't think I was missing any (keep in mind the Yuzu controversy, this is not a pure citrus fruit, it is a hybrid already demonstrated in scientific work between ichang papeda and wild mandarin)
 


Till

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2024, 11:42:59 AM »
Well, there are some African relatives of Citrus with trifoliate or pinnate leaves which resemble citrus very much. It is also commonly stated in literature that the leaf morphology of Citrus is based on pinnate leaves. That can clearly be seen at the point where petiole and leaf are connected. A Citrus leaf is morphologically a reduced pinnate leaf. It also happens that crosses between Poncirus and citrus have pinnate leaves, at least transitorily. So there is indeed something in the background of all citrus plants that points into the direction of pinnate or trifoliate leaves. Nonetheless your crosses show that trifoliate leaves of Pummelo x Kaffir hybrids are at least not common.

But I am not an expert in genetics. Old genes can be deactivated by newer genes or can be completely lost. And I think we all agree that the family tree of Citrus that we know indicates that trifoliate leaves have long disappeared from most of its branches.

Lauta_hibrid

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Re: Interesting kumquat and other hybrids in Argentina
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2024, 12:39:53 PM »
good note!  You are right that perhaps the message of making trifoliates may be there, since attempts at 2 or 3 leaflets and lobed leaves usually appear in citrus, I look at them a lot and I have found those atypical phenomena.  This tree only reflects what already existed and multiple separations as they conquered the continents.  so what was lost, was lost.  Perhaps with some fossil it will be clarified if there was a trifoliate ancestor.  Of course, the trifoliate formation seems to be dominant because Poncirus hybrids are always like that (dominates).  It must be taken into account that when that branch separated at the base of its family tree (cladogram) it could be that it was lost for the rest of the citrus trees... there are strange things in genetics too, look at C. medica, C. indica and Australian citrus... there they are all almost without petioles or petioles without joints and without wings... although both branches are different and with totally different close relatives.  There is still so much to discover.  😅 Surely when it comes to the close relative you are referring to Citropcis, but this is a much more distant branch, it is the furthest end that can still be crossed, but closer branches such as Atalantia and Severina are monofoliate.  That is why, in my understanding, what is pigged is acquired later, although the information may be hidden there by a more distant relative of the Rutaceae and not an ancestor of Citrus.  but it's all speculation and there are many unread genetic papers.  😊there is a cladogram showing the place of citrus and Atalantia sp.