Loquats that can survive the desert heat

[snowjunky]

Hi all, I grow loquats in Phoenix.  I've had many loquat trees die in the summer. 
Selecting the right varieties is most important.  Some varieties are much more heat tolerant than others. 
Generally speaking orange flesh varieties are hardier than yellow flesh and white flesh is the weakest. 
But flesh color does not guarantee heat tolerance. 
Big Jim, McBeth, Argelino, Kanko can take full sun in a cool spot in my yard after one year in ground. 
Novak, Bradenton, Tanaka need afternoon shade. 
Christmas, Champagne, Ed's Delight need shade from late morning. 
Vista White needs shade all day long.
Loquats need water everyday in the summer until established, then every two or three days and water deeply.
Finally, loquats from cuttings are weaker than grafted trees with a tap root.

What other varieties and tips would you recommend?

[PTAZ]

I'm testing out a seedling strawberry loquat tree.  My understanding is seedling loquats are significantly hardier than grafted.  It did fine in a pot last summer.  Had it in mostly shade. It's planted now.  I also want to test a grafted one, so your list is helpful.

[K-Rimes]

I have the same issue with most any plant that I try to plant any time past around March. My temps can be in the 100s, and at 2200' the sun is much more intense. I just plant in the fall now, and try to pick stockier examples and that works enough. I resist using shade structures because I don't want to expend the $ and energy building it, especially in the heat.

You have interesting experience trying all these types and it's fascinating that the whites and yellow are more sensitive. Phoenix feels like a hellscape every time I'm there in the summer so any plant that can tolerate it gets a nod from me.

[CeeJey]

I wish I could have a loquat, I love loquats, but they keep breaking my heart regardless of variety.

I'm testing out a seedling strawberry loquat tree.  My understanding is seedling loquats are significantly hardier than grafted.  It did fine in a pot last summer.  Had it in mostly shade. It's planted now.  I also want to test a grafted one, so your list is helpful.

Depends on the seedling. I had two gold nugget seedlings that died to the heat as soon as it cranked above 102, a grafted Champagne that made it to about 107 in full shade before dying horribly, a grafted Oliver that survived almost the entire summer under 50% all day shade before the extended stress finally killed it.

I've only seen two loquats thriving in Phoenix (I'm sure there are others, just the two I have seen personally) and they're both seedlings though.

Phoenix feels like a hellscape every time I'm there in the summer so any plant that can tolerate it gets a nod from me.

Once something survives two summers and two winters out here, it's functionally immortal. Gotta survive both though. Winter is the grim reaper that sneaks up from behind out here, especially out a ways from the city centers. Otherwise I would just fill the yard with mamoncillo and be done with.

[snowjunky]

You have to be creative to keep certain trees alive in Phoenix. 
I don't use shade structures for trees.  I plant a moringa or Emerald okra on the west side of the tree for afternoon shade. 
Any plant that's fast growing and heat resistant will do for shade and a plant also increases the humidity and cools the temperature for your tree. 
Shade structures can't do that.  Just remove the plant when your tree is strong enough to take the heat.

I've tried sunflowers too because they grow fast and tall, but they die before summer's over and are allelopathic.

[snowjunky]

Mixing in plenty of compost and keeping a thick layer of mulch around the loquat helps a lot to keep the soil cool and moist.
Adding some sulfur to the soil in the first two years can help the roots system deal with the high pH desert soil.
Plant your tree away from your house and block walls is a must, especially not on the west or south side of them.
Rocks and gravel ground cover also increase the heat in your yard. 
Plant trees away from oleanders and eucalyptus because they are allelopathic and common in Phoenix.
Talk to your loquat everyday so it won't be lonely won't hurt either

[CeeJey]

All great advice, particularly staying away from reflected heat of block walls and gravel groundcover. Also, lantana is another common allelopathic plant out here, for anybody reading this.

Also agreed about the moringa, best shade structure that I've found out here, along with mutingia calaburra I tried out last year. Great chop and drop mulch in both cases too.

All that said, it still depends on the individual plant and the specific local microclimate. For two loquat attempts, I did all of the things "right" and it still didn't matter (for a third, I think additional heat from shade cloth is what did it in, which might have been alleviated with using tree-based shade instead). But I'm in part of the inner section of the sprawl that runs a couple of degrees hotter in the summer. People out in South Mountain or east Mesa or North have a tiny bit more ease with the subtropicals like loquats, the trade-off being that their tropicals take more work in the winter than mine do (my deciduoous fruit trees and hemi-deciduous tropicals defoliate later if at all to my buddies about twenty minutes south of here).

I might well be able to get another Oliver to take with another try or two (that seemed to be the closest to making it), changing a few things, but it would still be a bit of a lottery ticket for me where I am as far as I can tell. It's also possible that I just had bad luck with previous attempts, 4-5 trees is a small sample size (just an expensive sample size).

[PTAZ]

Good to see some AZ discussion on here, and our unique situation.  On the positive, PHX metro area and outlying suburbs seem to be one of the few areas where due to the heat and cold you can grow some of the temperate stone fruits (e.g. pluots and apriums) and subtropicals/tropicals like mango (with effort to protect in winter).  Agree that microclimate is king, along with building great soil through mulching, etc.  Not planting near the south side of a house or west facing block wall is kind of a double edged sword.  Reflected heat in summer is a killer, but can help protect tropicals during the winter.  I'm testing out the use of vetiver grass to help ease the reflected heat from block walls during summer while improving drainage (in addition to shade from other trees and pergola).

[sc4001992]

CeeJey & Snowjunky, I think your best chance for a loquat to do well is to start by growing a lot of seedlings and let the strongest one (still alive) survive the heat as they grow to be 1 year old seedlings. I did this with my loquat seeds, planted a tub full of 100+ seeds, then let them all grow out, had about 60-80 seedlings. The seedlings were in the community tub until the most vigorous seedling survive. I will now take the remaining 2 seedlings and put each in a nice large pot to grow until they fruit. I don't have the heat you have in AZ, but with this method it will allow only the strong to survive.

Here's the results:
1. Setup, Home Depot plastic container, 12x19.
2. Seeds- started with over 100 seeds (May 2021)
3. Germinated 80% seedlings
4. Continued in same tub until two survived
5. Seedling #1 - 27" tall today
6. Seedling #2 - 40" tall today
 

[CeeJey]

CeeJey & Snowjunky, I think your best chance for a loquat to do well is to start by growing a lot of seedlings and let the strongest one (still alive) survive the heat as they grow to be 1 year old seedlings.

I'm trying that with some other stuff but sourcing that many loquat seeds sounds like a pita.

Reflected heat in summer is a killer, but can help protect tropicals during the winter.  I'm testing out the use of vetiver grass to help ease the reflected heat from block walls during summer while improving drainage (in addition to shade from other trees and pergola).

Some other stuff that doesn't give a crap about reflected heat against a west-facing block wall:

-bouganvillea (grab some of the upright varieties like Alexandra rather than Barbara Karst to cut down on trimming time)
-Pride of Barbados (can get toasty first year against the brick)
-Mexican bird of paradise (the yellow one, also a nitrogen fixer with okay shade after a couple of years)
-Pomegranate (Wonderful cultivar, some of the other cultivars like sweet and eversweet don't like the brick as much)
-Sugarcane with a little bit of afternoon shade when getting established
-Dwarf chinese bamboo (at least for me, other people have struggled with this one but I manged to get a patch going against the west wall with a little shade during June-Autumn after planting. Other varieties are not a fan ime.
-Vernonia amygdalina (growth similar to bamboo out here if trimmed regularly, indestructible once established, supposedly edible but bitter as bitter melon).
-Cape honeysuckle, but gets a little toasty first year.
-Hop bush but they get stupid huge

This is all stuff that I've gotten to survive a year. The trick with all of those is to water the crap out of them while they get established during hot months, moreso than you think they need.

I'm testing out curry leaf a couple of feet from the wall this year. And honestly I'd probably just use pomegranates except my neighbor and I don't like looking at each other, including in fall and winter 

Also, plants near other plants do better in the winter for me. I'm currently going for the "high density chaos forest" approach and that is the stuff that thrives in both seasons as opposed to orderly well-spaced planting. Others' mileage may vary.

[sc4001992]

CeeJey, I did sell a lot of seeds in summer of 2021. I had over 1,000 seeds so all the seeds that did not sell I just threw them in the black Home Depot tubs and let only the strong survive for planting in pots. I get a lot of healthy seedling trees that way, also they seem to grow faster than the average seedling and fruit pretty early.

I sold the seeds for 4 for $1. It's more work than you think to remove the seeds from the fruit, then wash them, then package in plastic bags. I have over 10 adult trees so I do get a lot of fruits. Send me a PM if you want to try growing out a few hundred seeds this summer. I collect seeds about May. I don't sell to wholesale guys, just to people who are hobbyist interested in trying something like what you are doing.

[snowjunky]

CeeJey & Snowjunky, I think your best chance for a loquat to do well is to start by growing a lot of seedlings and let the strongest one (still alive) survive the heat as they grow to be 1 year old seedlings. I did this with my loquat seeds, planted a tub full of 100+ seeds, then let them all grow out, had about 60-80 seedlings. The seedlings were in the community tub until the most vigorous seedling survive. I will now take the remaining 2 seedlings and put each in a nice large pot to grow until they fruit. I don't have the heat you have in AZ, but with this method it will allow only the strong to survive.

Here's the results:
1. Setup, Home Depot plastic container, 12x19.
2. Seeds- started with over 100 seeds (May 2021)
3. Germinated 80% seedlings
4. Continued in same tub until two survived
5. Seedling #1 - 27" tall today
6. Seedling #2 - 40" tall today

Yes, seedlings would be the stronger than most grafted loquats.  If the seedling fruit is not good then graft good varieties on the east or NE side of the tree.

[sc4001992]

I have been getting about 40% good seedling trees which has as good or better than the parent tree. I already have 25 seedling trees that have fruited for me. Of course, I only plant the seeds from the varieties that I like the taste of the fruits so no average tasting seeds are used.

[snowjunky]

40% is a pretty good gamble.

[sc4001992]

Yup, so far, my highest brix reading fruit is from my seedling tree. This summer should be a good representation of the real brix of all my varieties since they should be having ripe fruits in summer.

[snowjunky]

40% is a pretty good gamble.

Not investment advice.

[snowjunky]

Yup, so far, my highest brix reading fruit is from my seedling tree. This summer should be a good representation of the real brix of all my varieties since they should be having ripe fruits in summer.

I can't wait

[CeeJey]

CeeJey, I did sell a lot of seeds in summer of 2021. I had over 1,000 seeds so all the seeds that did not sell I just threw them in the black Home Depot tubs and let only the strong survive for planting in pots. I get a lot of healthy seedling trees that way, also they seem to grow faster than the average seedling and fruit pretty early.

I sold the seeds for 4 for $1. It's more work than you think to remove the seeds from the fruit, then wash them, then package in plastic bags. I have over 10 adult trees so I do get a lot of fruits. Send me a PM if you want to try growing out a few hundred seeds this summer. I collect seeds about May. I don't sell to wholesale guys, just to people who are hobbyist interested in trying something like what you are doing.

Yeah that might be something I was interested in. I'll send you a PM.

[snowjunky]

Some other stuff that doesn't give a crap about reflected heat against a west-facing block wall:

-bouganvillea (grab some of the upright varieties like Alexandra rather than Barbara Karst to cut down on trimming time)
-Pride of Barbados (can get toasty first year against the brick)
-Mexican bird of paradise (the yellow one, also a nitrogen fixer with okay shade after a couple of years)
-Pomegranate (Wonderful cultivar, some of the other cultivars like sweet and eversweet don't like the brick as much)
-Sugarcane with a little bit of afternoon shade when getting established
-Dwarf chinese bamboo (at least for me, other people have struggled with this one but I manged to get a patch going against the west wall with a little shade during June-Autumn after planting. Other varieties are not a fan ime.
-Vernonia amygdalina (growth similar to bamboo out here if trimmed regularly, indestructible once established, supposedly edible but bitter as bitter melon).
-Cape honeysuckle, but gets a little toasty first year.
-Hop bush but they get stupid huge

This is all stuff that I've gotten to survive a year. The trick with all of those is to water the crap out of them while they get established during hot months, moreso than you think they need.

I'm testing out curry leaf a couple of feet from the wall this year. And honestly I'd probably just use pomegranates except my neighbor and I don't like looking at each other, including in fall and winter 

Also, plants near other plants do better in the winter for me. I'm currently going for the "high density chaos forest" approach and that is the stuff that thrives in both seasons as opposed to orderly well-spaced planting. Others' mileage may vary.

Right, walls kill heat sensitive trees in the summer, but they protect tropical trees in the winter.  Just consider that walls damage plants with heat and reflected light in the summer day so works at a further distance than wall heat protection in the winter night.

The deciduous fruit trees I found that don't give a damn about reflected wall heat are(in decreasing order):
Pomegranate
Jujube
Mulberry
Mulberry nigra
Peach - depending on rootstock

The tropical fruit trees that don't give a damn about summer wall heat and also benefit from the wall heat in the winter are:(in heat tolerance decreasing order):
Guamuchil
Kei Apple
Natal Plum
Indian Jujube
Bael
Marula
Phalsa
Jamaican Cherry
Barbados Cherry
Lemon
Lime
Imbe
Common Guava - most
Jambolan
Ice Cream Bean
Papaya - Mexican, not Hawaiian

[snowjunky]

All great advice, particularly staying away from reflected heat of block walls and gravel groundcover. Also, lantana is another common allelopathic plant out here, for anybody reading this.

Also agreed about the moringa, best shade structure that I've found out here, along with mutingia calaburra I tried out last year. Great chop and drop mulch in both cases too.

All that said, it still depends on the individual plant and the specific local microclimate. For two loquat attempts, I did all of the things "right" and it still didn't matter (for a third, I think additional heat from shade cloth is what did it in, which might have been alleviated with using tree-based shade instead). But I'm in part of the inner section of the sprawl that runs a couple of degrees hotter in the summer. People out in South Mountain or east Mesa or North have a tiny bit more ease with the subtropicals like loquats, the trade-off being that their tropicals take more work in the winter than mine do (my deciduoous fruit trees and hemi-deciduous tropicals defoliate later if at all to my buddies about twenty minutes south of here).

I might well be able to get another Oliver to take with another try or two (that seemed to be the closest to making it), changing a few things, but it would still be a bit of a lottery ticket for me where I am as far as I can tell. It's also possible that I just had bad luck with previous attempts, 4-5 trees is a small sample size (just an expensive sample size).

Lantanas too? Yikes!

Yes, I agree with the Muntingia calabura is a super fast growing shade plant. 
It's AKA Jamaican Cherry, Panama Berry, Strawberry Tree. 
I planted a few as shade plants for my persimmons one season and they grew to 15ft tall by the winter then froze to death.

[gumbo2go]

Kaz,  this community is lucky to have such generous members like yourself.
Good karma is always a blessing.

[sc4001992]

 Thanks JJ. I like this forum a lot, many good people who help each other so I want to also do the same.

[snowjunky]

Kaz is a MVP!

[sc4001992]

Thanks Steve.

[AndrewAZ]

I haven't had any problems withoquats, so far.  The trick I think, is planting them in late September.  Gives the roots enough time to dig into the soil and be adjusted before June.  I have a pretty big juicy Jim from tropicamango in AJ, but, it hasn't bloomed yet.