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Messages - Squam256

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Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Colder than normal winter in Florida 22/23?
« on: November 14, 2022, 08:57:13 AM »
We can only hope. Currently weíre well above average in nighttime lows.

My (unscientific) prediction is for another warm winter where we are in Southeast Florida. We donít really get winters here anymore.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Taralay Mango
« on: November 13, 2022, 09:07:07 PM »
I have a tree planted, its around 10ft.
I should get fruit next year so if i forget to mention let me know.

I haven't had it in a while but in the world of indochinese flavors, Zinc and Cac have my heart

Those two are great, and a lot better than Taralay

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Taralay Mango
« on: November 06, 2022, 01:00:53 AM »
Well the taralay mango seems to grow super well here but it barely set any fruit and many of them were mis shaped.  Have you guys in FL seen the deformed fruit? 

I'm going to have to top work several taralay trees.  It's one of the strongest growers too but seems like the fruit are a fail here.

Not that impressed with the fruit. Iíve had good ones but a number of mediocre examples as well that tasted like early season Duncans. We have one producing-size tree in the ground that has failed to fruit multiple years,  though in its defense it is planted in a bad spot.

Itís been out in the wild long enough that you should be hearing some feedback on it from the general public by now. The fact that you arenít seeing that is probably a red flag, but the jury is still out.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Avocado Scion Wood
« on: October 17, 2022, 11:33:48 PM »
Weíve fruited Nishikawa and Malama here. Both are excellent. We have a San Miguel with fruit on it for the first time.

Nishikawa has fruited successfully in other parts of Florida (particularly southwest Florida). I think the Hawaiian cultivars deserve more trial here and thereís probably a market for their budwood.

(Can't remember my YouTube login) but wanted to know why Kathy is no longer on your list. That mango moved into my top five this year.

We still grow Kathy but the tree has been too unhealthy to take budwood from the last several years. I have a second one in a pot that I had been intending to plant and remove the old one but the old one has looked better as of late.

Does Sophie frey produce better than Julie. Why did the Zill family choose that particular seedling. Was there any particular trait that they observed with that particular seedling.

I think it produces more female flowers than Julie so itís capable of fruiting better than Julie with a full bloom. But it hasnít flowered as easily as Julie thus far. Itís also a clearly more vigorous tree.

I think it got selected because it had a different flavor than Julie but Iím not sure the Zills were terribly high on it. They had planted a bunch of Sophie Frey seeds in a patch that they intended to use for rootstock but they became overgrown. One of these was the original Carrie mango.

8:00pm eastern time
Anyone is welcome to participate , here is the YouTube link:

Sweet Tart
Purchased from Excalibur. Now hereís a mango whose reputation precedes itself.  My family grows this mind-blowing fruit so I have really high expectations.  The mango I acquired looked a bit undersized and perhaps picked early.  Still very green exterior, but it was getting soft so it was time to eat.  Once cut open, it was clear that I waited too long to open this one.  Deep orange color with the flesh near the skin starting to get overly ripe.  All tartness had departed with only sweetness remaining.  I would swear this was a small Mexican Kent based on flavor, fruit appearance, and some fiber near the seed.  Even the seed was Mono.  There was, however, some Indochinese flavor still near the skin.    All said and done, I was thoroughly disappointed with this Sweet Tart.  Iíve had overripe homegrown Sweet Tart and it was nowhere near this poor quality.  Most of the mangos from Excalibur looked like they were picked early (all very green), so Iím a bit apprehensive about future tastings from their selection.  Iím rating this underwhelming experience a 5.5/10 with 2 point loss for flavor, 1 point demerit for eating at the wrong stage of ripeness, another 1 point for breaking my heart, and half a point for potential mislabeled Sweet Tart based on observed characteristics.  In case it needs to be said, do not base your tree buying decision on this review.  I can personally vouch that this is normally a top tier mango that belongs in every backyard.

I would venture to guess that that is an immaturely picked Carrie.

Glad you were able to get some fruit for us, I know itís not easy and the stuff sells quickly.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Guava mango
« on: May 05, 2022, 12:07:30 PM »
I've been wondering what the growth behavior of Guava would be classified as. I have it grafted in on one branch, from that I would guess it would be lanky (long internodes), open and spreading with medium vigor. I've been debating grafting it to it's own seedling and growing the tree (since it seems like ~one of~ the highest quality early season mangoes), but I want an early variety that is easy to manage and is somewhat attractive. My guess is Guava fails in one of those aspects. Anybody that's been growing it for awhile have any feedback on the tree?

Open canopy, spreading habit with long internodes and moderately vigorous rate of growth.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Guava mango
« on: May 03, 2022, 10:42:09 PM »
I'm going to bump this thread up because I think the information that Alex shares in this video is very interesting and I couldn't find it in the forum: Guava is actually Sein Ta Lone from Myanmar:
OK, so why does he classify Guava as Indian/West Indian flavor and Sein Ta Lone as Indochinese flavor?  That sounds contradictory, but maybe he can explain.

I need to edit that entry. Itís a difficult mango to classify in terms of flavor group.

But Guava is definitely the same mango as Sein Ta Lone.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: please help me to ID these mango types
« on: April 23, 2022, 09:11:25 AM »
In the very first photo, the second mango appears to be Peach and the bottom one is likely Haden.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is this a M-4 mango tree or E4 or CC?
« on: April 16, 2022, 10:19:11 PM »
Appears to be M-4

Thereís a fake Number 11 in the collection of the USDA I believe. You can see pics of it in a Google image search, the fake has a reddish color and

Real number 11 trees do exist in south Florida though as Iíve had Jamaican customers show me the fruit.

Bump for tonight.

Probably going to bring some mangos for the tasting table.

Followed, I hope,  by a visit on Tuesday to Sarasota's Tropical Fruit Society?!??
If only it was a little closer, that's an hour each way on a school night for me....

I donít make it over there very often unfortunately . In fact itís been a couple years. Hard to find the time to do these between having to pull away from the farm and time spent writing the presentations.

I have spoken to the Nokomis club several times in years past.

I'd like to try and go to this. It's open/free to non-members? And there's enough room for visitors? Thanks!

Yes thereís no fee and you donít have to be a member.

To those forum viewers who might be interested in attending I will be giving a talk about mangos to the Manatee Rate Fruit Council in Bradenton, FL this Monday at 7:00pm. Free to the public. Will be covering topics such as the current season, some common existing challenges in mangos, variety discussions and more + Q&A period.

The address for the meeting is Harlee Building/County Fairgrounds, 1303 17th St W, Palmetto, FL 34221

Regarding Avocado scions most of the avocado trees are still flowering/setting fruit. I would expect by the end of this month and May weíll have avocado scions available again.

Here is the link for Cecilove, I tried it today and still working, page name must have been changed:

Hi Alex, what varieties can you confirm to be dwarfed by grafting onto Piva rootstock?
I really love the flavor of Cac, but I also read it's a big tree. There are a few other biggies that have interested me over the years (I can't recall which offhand) that I thought would never work in my space. I've been hoping Piva might be a game-changer in that regard.


Piva is known to dwarf old Florida varieties and some mangos of Indian descent.

What Iíve found is it dwarfs some stuff, stunts other stuff, and does nothing to a lot of mangos. It doesnít seem to do anything to Lemon Zest for example. Weíve actually discontinued offering graft orders on Piva rootstock because of all the variability, plus the stocks take a long time to be ready to graft to begin with compared to the vast majority of other rootstocks.
We do still sell Piva rootstocks though , and will probably continue to graft to them sparingly on our own time as an experiment

I would be pretty skeptical of its ability to slow down Cac. But I havenít tested it out yet.

Completely agree, best bud wood Iíve received.

I always have such good results with his budwood ! My neighbors put in graft request for two mango trees that is such a great service.

Thanks for all you do!

Thank you John and Simon, we really appreciate the positive comments and are glad to see the success youíve had.

Itís mango budwood season again. $6 per scion + shipping (FedEx Express -2 day air).  We are now taking orders for budwood checks which we currently conduct on Sundays. After we check your list, weíll send you an invoice. Sapodilla and Mamey scions available as well.

There is a $6 check fee which gets applied towards your order. If we donít find anything ready from your list or you cancel before we check it, we refund you the $6.

We sell trees too and can ship 1 and 3 gallons to all states including California and Arizona (phyto sanitary inspection required). We also can graft you a tree and carry non-Turpentine rootstocks for those of you in California and Arizona. Seedling trees are also available for those that want to grow poly varieties in those states.

We can be reached via email at
You can also text us at 561-358-8566

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sugarloaf or Pineapple Pleasure
« on: April 04, 2022, 09:26:36 AM »
Doing budwood checks and just took a look at one of our Pineapple Pleasure

Alex, this gets me STOKED!
Any guess on how many years that tree has been in ground?

This tree was planted in 2015. Itís growth habit has been moderately vigorous and itís been very productive for a while.

We have another one that was planted in 2014 which has grown as a dwarf. That tree produces more male flowers and hasnít been as productive the last couple cycles, but has borne good crops in the past. Pineapple Pleasure produces such large fruit that it doesnít need to make too many individual fruits for the yield to be in the acceptable range.

We have a topwork that started fruiting in year 2 (last year) and had a nice first crop, much lighter second crop this year due to a late vegetative growth flush that occurred but itís flower ratio has been closer to the 2015 tree.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Sugarloaf or Pineapple Pleasure
« on: April 02, 2022, 04:14:04 PM »
Doing budwood checks and just took a look at one of our Pineapple Pleasure

I read an article once about how bud wood can revert to the juvenile phase, if a tree is grafted and bud wood is taken from the vigorous growth and grafted again before it can bloom. The more generations that occur without blooming, the more likely it is for the reversion to happen. I think that may be one of the issues people are dealing with if they have a tree that does not bloom for several years and then fruits normally. I suspect this may be the case with some of the newer Zill mangoes that had shortages of bud wood and high levels of demand. Some of the other trees sound like they have disease issues or another problem.

Interesting possibility......

I actually think a decrease of sunlight due to tree competition shading as the most likely reason for the delaying of bloom on my 2 of 15 sweet tart trees. But it is definitely not the problem with my phoenix tree as about 13 ft tall and about 12 ft broad planted in full sun exposure.

I am very happy that one of my favorite tasting mangos (Sweet Tart) is Also probably my most dependable producer in my yard. Nice having many delicious mangos being so easy to grow......

Updated::: Nope,,, Glen is more dependable in my yard...

IMO someone with 3 or less trees only in their yard needs to be informed of the odds of zero production for many years with some varieties. (The other answer is of course plant more trees as I have thus no problem with a year of a variety not producing)

Another tree that Alex does well with production in prior years posts is Iman Pasand....
In my yard, it flowers and sets small fruit every year. Recently I have gotten some to maturity. However all of my mature fruit are cracked.... Thus a caveat to Iman Pasand at least in my more fungus prone area.

P.S... lol.. Back to Topic::: Please post any of your consistent fruiting Failures.....

Iman Passand does that in West Palm Beach too. But weíre still able to get plenty of edible ones. People who love Iman Passand will even buy the cracked ones actually.

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