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Messages - jim VH

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1
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Trifoliate flower scent?
« on: March 17, 2024, 03:46:39 PM »
Mine have no detectable aroma.

2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: What to try in zone 8a-b
« on: January 26, 2024, 11:36:02 AM »
If you had to only plant one based solely on taste what one would you choose?

Depends on what you want to use it for. If you want marmalade, the Yuzu is by far the best, based on it's outstanding peel flavor. If you want juice, the Kabosu is best, followed by the Citrangequat. If you want to eat it out of hand, the Changsha is the sweetest.  Flavor is, of course, subjective.

The earliest ripening Satsumas do ripen here, typically in mid-December, but need strong protection, since I've found that the long duration temperatures below 18F--which we get every so often--will kill any Satsuma. I've tried Early St Anne, LA Early, Okitsu, Xie Shan, and Miho. Of these, Xie Shan has the best flavor, but does not reliably ripen. Next best is Okitsu. Miho is the sweetest, but the flavor is blander.

3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: What to try in zone 8a-b
« on: January 25, 2024, 12:08:06 PM »
Hi Peasefamily,

I've been growing citrus here in Vancouver Wa since 2007 and have learned a lot about what survives here from four arctic blasts, with this year being the fourth. I'm actually familiar with Newberg, having driven bean combines for Del Monte in the ST. Paul, Donald and Aurora area. Our climates are similar, with Vancouver getting just a bit more wind from the Columbia River Gorge.
  Here's what I have that has survived here without protection, once they are large enough:
   Yuzu, Sudachi, Thomasville Citrangequat, Morton Citrange.
  Here's what I have that this years Arctic blast will be the first test:
  Ichang Lemon, Prague Citsuma, Kabosu and Keraji mandarin.  Of these, I'm fairly certain that the Ichang Lemon,Prague Citsuma and Kabosu will survive; the Keraji not so likely, but time will tell.

Ranked in terms of proven hardiness: Morton citrange, Sudachi, Yuzu, Thomasville Citrangequat, Changsha tangerine. The first three have almost no damage down to 10F, whereas the last two have a fair amount, especially when exposed to the Gorge winds.

based on the last two winters, I think the Kabosu is about as hardy as the Yuzu, maybe even hardier, but that remains to be proven. The Keraji is the least hardy.

Fruit quality:
Yuzu-its main appeal is the peal which has an outstanding aroma and makes excellent marmalade. Lots of seed, and very little--but high quality--acid juice. Ripens in mid-November. harvested 32 lbs. this year.

Sudachi- a lot of seeds, but fewer than Yuzu. Small acid fruit with a fair amount of juice with a bright zesty flavor. Usually harvested green, about mid-October here. harvested 22 lbs. this year.

Kabosu-almost seedless. Excellently flavored juice. large fruit. Harvested 6 lbs. this year.

Thomasville Citrangequat-relatively few seeds. Small acid fruit with a good key-lime flavor when harvested green in mid to late October and lots of juice. The flavor when fully ripe is also quite good. harvested 18 lbs. this year.

Changsha tangerine-lost of seeds. Medium sized sweet fruit with a somewhat insipid flavor; best when harvested in early November, or even late October, before the peel turns fully orange. Harvested17 lbs. this year.

Morton Citrange-low seed count. Large sweet fruit ripening late November onwards. It has an off flavor that I can't stand, but others love them, so...whatever. Harvested 20 lbs. this year.

Prague Citsuma--seedless. Variable sized fruit ranging from golf-ball to satsuma sized, with outstanding flavor. Ripens late, but can be harvested before the first hard freeze and allowed to ripen indoors. Not a heavy bearer. Harvested 3 lbs. this year.

Yuzu, Sudachi, Changsha tangerine and Ichang lemon are available on Flying Dragon rootstock at One Green World nursery in Mollala Oregon, not too far from you.

Hope this helps,

Jim 


 

4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Satsuma on its own roots
« on: December 18, 2023, 12:56:20 PM »
Hi Sheaper,

  Growing your own Satsuma is definitely worth it, not only for the satisfaction of 'doing it yourself', but because tree ripened Satsumas fresh off the tree have far better quality than the ones you get in stores, which tend to be picked on the green side.
  I've never grown a Satsuma from seed, but have grown a Changsha mandarin. It took about twelve years to bear fruit, but in my location the growing season is quite short compared to the Southeast US, so I usually only get one complete growth flush in a year, with sometimes a second incomplete one, whereas, in your location, you should get two or three. So, Millet's estimate of 3-5 years is probably more accurate for your tree from seed.
  In my location, which is about 750 miles north of your latitude--depending on which part of South Carolina you are--winters are more brutal than yours. Freezes where the temperature stays below freezing for up to ten days, with low temperatures down to roughly 10F, occur once every five or six years on average. Satsumas will not survive this, so I use the shelters described above by SoCal for them, plus a string of the old incandescent Christmas tree lights on a thermostat, to keep their temperature above freezing. Usually, though, the temperatures are not that cold, so I leave the shelters open to prevent mold, and only close them and plug in the lights when the temperatures look to drop below 28F when fruit is on the tree, or down to the low 20's when the fruit is harvested. This occurs, on average, only about a dozen days a year--more often during the rare arctic blast.
  I have, however, tested unprotected Satsumas. When I first started my citruholic adventures twenty years ago, I found that only the earliest ripening Satsumas reach full size and maturity here, where our growing season starts in May and ends in late September. The Owari and Brown Select Satsumas never grew beyond golf ball sized, and did not winter over to resume growing the following spring. So, in 2014, I decided to sacrifice them to the frost gods. Sure enough, in November 2014, the Veterans day storm came, with strong east winds of 20 mph, gusting to 50 mph, and where the temperature dropped to 18F and stayed below freezing for 36 consecutive hours. This killed both three foot trees, although the Brown Select did push out a small shoot for about a month before giving up the ghost.
  Then, last year, I left a very large Okitsu with a 1.25 inch diameter trunk on a citrange rootstock, which was outgrowing its shelter, exposed to the elements, after replacing it with a dwarf Okitsu on Flying Dragon rootstock in a different location. Sure enough, last winter I had three short arctic events down to 18F, each accompanied by high east winds gusting to 35 mph. In the December event there was a 36 hour period where the temperature never rose above 22F. This killed the Okitsu. Interestingly enough, last winter also killed a small Keraji mandarin on FD rootstock, even though it was protected by a styrofoam box, although a larger Keraji on a Citrange rootstock survived with 70% damage. Kerajis are reputed to be hardier than Satsumas, but apparently not that much hardier.
  So, the conclusion of this bit of a ramble is that you should be prepared to protect you Satsuma if your temperatures drop much below 20F, if it looks like it will last more than a few hours, although in your location a tarp may be enough.
  Hope some of this helps.

Jim
 

5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Earliest ripening citrus
« on: November 30, 2023, 11:19:54 AM »
  The guy in Vancouver might have a greenhouse or other form of shelter. in which he can apply heat. Since the Satsumas need winter shelter anyway, one way to get an earlier ripening is to apply enough heat inside the shelter in the spring so that it blooms earlier. That could erase the two week difference in time, and more, depending on when you apply heat.
  I find out when it's ripe enough by trying one and see. If it's sour, wait a couple weeks. That only works if you have more than one fruit, of course.

6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Earliest ripening citrus
« on: November 29, 2023, 12:36:33 PM »
Hi Raveragle,
  I'm actually familiar with the differences between the climates in the Puget Sound area vs. the Portland area, because my grandparents ran the Burmyrna Fig Gardens on Vashon Island from the late 1920's to the early 1960's. Based on the differences in ripening of the figs on those vs. the same variety I have down here, the growing season starts two weeks later in Seattle and ends about two weeks earlier than it does in Portland. The difference in growing degree days (GDD's) reflects this. Here, we have about 2000 GDD's, whereas it is about 1500 GDD's in the Puget basin on average. Variations in microclimates may alter this, of course.
  Based on this, I would say that the LA Early or Early St. Anne have the best shot of reaching full size in Seattle, since they are the earliest Satsumas down here in Vancouver Wa. Miho may also work because of its higher sugar level and lower acid level than other Satsumas I've grown. All three reach full size here, and have a shot at it up there as well. All hold well on the tree. It's likely they will ripen later up there than here, however, possibly a month later. The flavor of all three are a bit bland, but are as good as most store Satsumas nonetheless.
  Xie Shan also reaches full size here, but ripens a month later than the three above due to its high acid level relative to the three above. It also holds well on the tree, so it may be worth a try up there. Its flavor is better, possibly due to it's higher acid. Okitsu also works here, is also later, and also has better flavor.

  And, as long as I'm here and posting, here are the fruit that I've harvested so far this season, to give an idea of ripening order:

                     Sudachi                             25 pounds      harvested October 16th-18th
                     Thomasville Citrangequat    18 pounds      harvested November 3rd
                     Changsha tangerine            17 pounds      harvested November 17th-24th
                     Kabosu (slightly green)        6 pounds       harvested November 24th
                     Yuzu (fully ripe)                  41 pounds      harvested November 17th-24th

  These are unprotected citrus and all were harvested by November 24th just before the first hard freeze of 25F of the season. All are ripe, or ripe enough to let finish ripening indoors. This is the first large crop of Citrangequats I've had and they are quite good.
  The Satsumas are protected. So far, they all a bit short of ripening, with only the LA Early close enough to be ripe by Christmas (actually, it will probably ready in another week or two.)

Hope this helps,
    Jim

7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Earliest ripening citrus
« on: October 12, 2023, 12:06:56 PM »
Hi Mar3,

That very early ripening of LA Early and Early St Anne was one of the reasons I chose LA Early for my first sweet citrus back in 2009, because the growing season here in the Pacific Northwest is very short. I went for a Satsuma because it seemed to be a one-season fruit. Bloom times for citrus here are later than most more southerly locales.  I've found that they start in mid-March for Flying Dragon, mid-April for Trifoliate hybrids and mid-May for other citrus like Ichandrins and Satsumas and other types of citrus. The growing season ends in mid to late October. I was thus hoping that the earliest Satsuma cultivars would make it in this shortened time.
  Even then I was concerned that there wouldn't be enough heat. The number of growing degree days in the Willamette Valley and Southwest Washington is typically 2000 degree-days at a base temperature of 50F, compared to 4000+degree-days for the normal citrus growing regions. Then I discovered mountain mandarins grown in Ojai County in Norhtern California and found that the number of growing degree days in the closest large city of Placerville Ca was around 2400, which I felt was close enough to make the attempt. When the LA Early produced edible fruit its second year, I then branched out to trying other Satsumas, with results I mentioned above.
  I've tried a few other sweet citrus as well, but they don't really work here, except the Morton Citrange, whose ripening is earlier due to its Trifoliate ancestry, and possibly the Kiyomi Tangor, which is almost ripe enough to eat in December, possibly because its tangerine half is an early ripening one. Typical oranges don't really work here.

The early Satsumas are by far the best sweet citrus for my location. Having lived in the Midwest (Michigan) for a number of years, I know it has far more heat in the summer months than I do, even as their growing season is roughly the same (without artificial heat applied to produce earlier bloom) so other varieties than Satsumas may do better there than my location.

Jim

8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Earliest ripening citrus
« on: September 28, 2023, 11:14:14 AM »
Hi Kaz,

  My Xie Shan are fully colored earlier, but the acid level is intolerably high for a sweet citrus until mid-December, and even then is still on the sour side. Fortunately, I enjoy sour, but sometimes the definition of 'ripe' varies from person to person. My ripe may be others unripe.
  I remember we had thread about Xie Shan a couple years ago, though a quick search didn't bring it up.
  My Flying Dragons are just starting to turn yellow, but probably won't start falling off the tree until they turn more of an orange-yellow about a month from now. Still, I will start them earlier to flavor my apple-quince sauce in a week or so, since the powerful lemon flavor that 'dragonballs' have is quite evident, even when green.
   Hi Millet,
  I have the opposite condition from the warmer climates. Our early falls tend to color the citrus up by early November most years, but the inside–while orange in appearance–is still on the sour side, due to our shorter growing season. It takes time for the acid level to drop to the level of enjoyability, with only the Changsha having a low enough acid level to start eating early, even when not fully colored.

Jim

9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Earliest ripening citrus
« on: September 27, 2023, 11:05:30 AM »
Hi Florian,
I suspect it's just me, or rather, my cool climate. Xie Shan 𝘪𝘴 a very early type; it reaches full size at the same time as my other early ripening cultivars. Later ripening varieties like Owari never reach full size, nor overwinter very well.
  The reason it becomes enjoyable later than some of the others is because Xie Shan has a very high acid level, which is part of the reason for its good flavor. So high. it's winceable.  In warmer climates the acid level drops very rapidly as it sits on the tree, so becomes comestible at about the same time as other early Satsumas.  Here in the Pacific Northwest, cool weather arrives early so, even though it reaches full size, it takes longer for the chemical processes that convert acid to sugar to occur. The more insipid varieties, the acid level is already low to start with, so the sugar to acid ratio is already at a tolerable level.
  At least, that's my guess.
Jim

10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Earliest ripening citrus
« on: September 25, 2023, 12:08:40 PM »
  Here's my experience in the short growing season of the Pacific Northwest.
  First, you have to divide the citrus into a group that requires winter protection, and one that doesn't.
  No Satsuma has ever survived an extended freeze at my location at temperatures below 18F. By extended, I mean temperatures that drop down to 20F or below and stay below freezing for two days or more. 𝘉𝘳𝘪𝘦𝘧 exposures at lower temperatures can be survived; a couple hours or less. Thus, they need winter protection in shelters that can be heated when such extended freezes occur.

  Here's the ripening order for such Satsumas as I currently grow. All require winter protection:
LA Early and Early St. Anne: Late October onward. They are a bit insipid, but as good as many store fruit.
Miho: Early-mid November onwards. Also a bit bland, but quite sweet.
Okitsus: Mid-late November onward. Excellent taste
Xie Shan: Early-mid December onward. Excellent flavor, a bit acid.

Citrus that don't require protection in extended freezes down to 8F, although damage to some varieties 𝘤𝘢𝘯 occur at temperatures in the high teens or low twenties, if the freezes last long enough. That occurred last winter here when I had three weeks of such temperatures, damaging, but not killing, Thomasville Citrangequat and Changsha:
  Flying Dragon: mid-October. Most people can't stand the flavor but mine seems to have better flavor than most, according to some, myself included. I use it for flavoring of drinks and certain fruit sauces.
  Changsha tangerine in sheltered location: Late October onward. rather insipid, quite seedy, rather small, But hey! It's a sweet citrus that doesn't require protection. Best flavor is earliest, when its acid level is highest.
  Thomasville Citrangequat picked green as a lime: Late October onward. I like the flavor, some don't.
  Sudachi picked green as a lime: Late October onward. Bright spritely flavor.
  Yuzu: Peel turns yellow in mid-November. Seedy and low juice content, but the peel has an outstanding flavor; I use it for marmalade. The juice is OK by my standards, though some don't like it.
  Kabosu: Peel turns yellow in mid-November. It's almost a sweet lemon, can be eaten out of hand if you like sour. Low seed count, lots of juice with an excellent flavor.
  Morton Citrange: Falls off the tree in mid-December. Sweet, low seed, lotsa juice. Has an aftertaste I can't stand, but other people gobble it up.
 Taste is subjective of course. Also, if an early hard freeze threatens, the fruit should either be harvested and allowed to ripen indoors, or the trees protected with sheets or something. I always pick the fruit, since it's close to ripe by the time of the earliest hard freezes around here, typically in mid November.

Jim

11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Owari Satsuma
« on: March 16, 2023, 03:54:15 PM »
It depends a lot on when the warm arrives. Here in the American Pacific Northwest, as the local joke goes, summer starts on July fifth and ends the Friday before Labor day. Some years that's actually true. So, my Owari didn't bloom until mid-May and it never got ripe, which is why I eventually exposed it to the frost gods to test its hardiness. (18 Fahrenheit, in case you care). Short season Satsumas, like LA Early or Okitsu do manage to ripen here. They all need winter protection, even in a zone 8b.

Jim

12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Poncirus fruit comparison
« on: January 30, 2023, 11:25:33 AM »
Hi Bussone

No, nothing particularly new.  The 2021 harvest was about the same as earlier ones, but with no 7 cm mega-fruit; the largest one was about 5.8 cm.  Here's the image for that:

  There really wasn't much of a 2022 harvest last fall, probably due to an extremely cold and wet spring/early summer; it rained almost nonstop until July 5th.  This resulted in a late bloom and very few pollinators; only a couple dozen fruit resulted.  This effected my other citrus adversely as well.  About the only interesting thing on the tree were a couple of rather gnarly fruit, discussed on another thread.  This could be caused by insect damage, or fungus.  Here's the picture:


The three-lobed fruit only had two seeds, which I planted for kicks, hoping, perhaps for a weird looking plant.  The single sprout was rather ordinary, however.

   A large number of the upper branches are still thornless.  It might be interesting to get some Dip-N-Grow and take some cuttings of said thornless branches and see if the thornlessness breed true.

13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Thomasville v. Morton?
« on: November 18, 2022, 11:28:10 AM »
Hi manfromyard,

     Thanks for pointing that out about the heat; I do believe you hit the nail on the head.  Here at my location in the occasionally frozen north, I only have 2000 growing degree days, whereas most areas in the citrus belt have roughly twice that or more; even parts of Colorado have more than we do.  When I thought about it, I realize that the Thomasville has never had a very heavy bloom, unlike the rest of my citrus, which may well be due to the 50% kumquat ancestry.  Kumquats, if I recall correctly, require significantly more heat than most other citrus and our lack of it may be the reason for the light bloom.

Jim

14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Thomasville v. Morton?
« on: November 14, 2022, 12:31:09 PM »
Hi Bussone,

     I have both Morton Citrange and Thomasville Citrangequat, both on Flying Dragon rootstock.  Both are about eight feet tall.  They are two completely different animals.  (Animals?  Well, they both do have a bit of a bite to them.) 
     The Morton Citrange is a 50-50 hybrid of an orange and a Poncirus Trifoliate and has large orange sized fruit that typically ripens in late November, here in my short growing season location.  It tastes like an orange, with an off-flavor I don't enjoy at all.  But that's subjective; a local board member loves them and comes to get them in December.  It bears relatively heavily; I get fifteen pounds or more, most years.
     The Thomasville Citrangequat is a cross between a Citrange and a kumquat.  It has kumquat  sized fruit that can be harvested green in November, here.  The flavor is like a Key Lime–a lime flavor with a touch of bitter–which I enjoy and use in a number of culinary applications.  It's rather shy bearing; I typically get less than five pounds.
     The Morton Citrange is much hardier than the Thomasville Citrangequat.  A two week arctic blast in January 2017, with one low near 8F, caused extensive small twig damage to the Thomasville; the Morton Citrange snickered at the cold and had no discernable damage.  Based on this, I'd guess that the Morton could survive down to Zero Fahrenheit, or maybe a bit lower, making it a zone 7 plant, whereas as the Thomasville is more of a zone 8 plant.  Although, being in Pennsylvania, your arctic weather events would last much longer than mine, based on my experience in living in Michigan for thirteen years, so that may have a bearing on survivability of the Morton in your location.  The Thomasville wouldn't survive at all in your location, without protection.
     Hope this helps,

Jim

15
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« on: November 14, 2022, 11:34:12 AM »
Hi Millet,

That is truly awesome.  I think about buying or building a larger greenhouse, now that I can afford it, but don't quite need it yet.  The only drawback of larger is that it needs more heat, but most of the time it really isn't necessary to heat it, since our zone 8 climate rarely drops below 20F, though when it does, it can be quite brutal.
  Yes, I, too, find that fruit from plants grown on Flying Dragon rootstock is just as large and flavorful as that from non-dwarfing rootstocks, and seems to ripen a couple weeks earlier, important for the very short growing season in my cool maritime climate.

Jim

16
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« on: November 11, 2022, 12:07:47 PM »
Hi ORKINMan,

     I'm not necessarily the best comparison for how your plants will behave.  Because of its cool short growing season, Washington state is not known for its citru-culture; as far as I know, there has not been any commercial production here, although I did give about thirty pounds of Yuzus to someone whose friend used to make Yuzu-Radler for his bar.  But no money was exchanged, so that doesn't really count as being a commercial transaction.

     My Miho is the best eating 𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘰𝘮𝘦𝘯𝘵, but that's because it is the sweetest of all my citrus.  It does tend to get a bit bland as it ripens further.  That will change as the others get riper and their sugar to acid levels improve.  I know from last year that the Xie Shan, when ripe about a month from now, is superior to any of my other Satsumas, including Miho. 
     This is my first crop of Okitsu.  I've heard it said on this board that Okitsu has very good flavor, so it may well follow the path of Xie Shan and become quite good in the next month or so.

     As far as size goes, again my zone 8, short growing season climate is not a good guide for your zone 9a.  My plants are on the small side for a couple reasons because of this.  Partly because I grow on a Flying Dragon rootstock, which is dwarfing.  This dwarfing allows me to protect my plants, using shelters, form the occasional Arctic blasts that come along once every few years; arctic blasts which would kill any Satsumas dead dead dead.  I prune my plants to keep them within the shelters, which keeps them quite small.
    Also, because of the short growing season, I only get one growth flush, on average, in a year, before winter comes, whereas warmer climates such as yours, could allow more than one.   So your plants will likely grow faster than mine and you can use non-dwarfing rootstocks as well.
    That said, my larger sheltered Satsumas are about three feet tall and the oldest thirteen year old plant is about four feet across.  They've become quite dense and fruit well.  The oldest one has produced about twenty pounds of fruit the last three years.
     My nine year old Changsha is much hardier, having survived 8F in January 2017 with minimal damage.  So I let it grow wild and free and it has reached about eight feet tall, even on a dwarfing rootstock.  My seven year old Ichang lemon, which is said to be hardy possibly to 5F, is on a nondwarfing Poncirus rootstock and has reached about twelve feet tall in that timespan.
     So this might give you some idea of the possibilities for how yours may perform, which I suspect will grow much faster in your milder climate.   

17
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Okitsu Wase and Miho Wase Satsumas
« on: November 10, 2022, 11:43:52 AM »
Hi TheORKINMan,

     I have six early ripening satsumas or tangerines In my yard, including Miho and Okitsu, as well as LA Early, Early St. Anne, Changsha Tangerine and Xie Shan, all on Flying Dragon rootstock except Okitsu, which is on Citrange rootstock.   So I went out and picked samples of all but the Xie Shan, which ripens much later than the others, and ate them about thirty minutes ago.  (I'm a bit bloated).

     In order of most to least sweet they are: Miho, LA Early, Changsha, Early St. Anne and Okitsu.
     In order of least to most sour they are: Changsha, Miho, LA Early, Early St. Anne and Okitsu.
     In order of most to least flavorful they are: Okitsu, Miho, Early St. Anne, LA Early and Changsha.

It's said that Flying dragon rootstock promotes earlier ripening, which likely explains why Okitsu, which is a very early ripening variety, is so far down on the sweet and sour scale.  I'm guessing that Okitsu is not as ripe as the others, based on this fact, and will move up rapidly as it ripens further, based on the fact the flavor seems more 'orangey' than the others.

At the moment, Miho is the best eating and I'm starting to eat them.

All of them are much better than Owari, which really doesn't ripen here at all, due to the extremely short growing season of the Pacific Northwest of the United States.  In fact, Owari never reaches full size here, remaining at golf ball size, even when overwintered and allowed to continue growing in the spring.

Miho has a sister called Seto, produced from the same breeding program that produced both of them from their Miyagawa forbearer.   Seto is probably comparable in flavor and sweetness.

Jim.

18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: My oddly shaped poncirus fruit
« on: October 26, 2022, 12:12:07 PM »
Yeah, I had a couple of those this year too.



I was bemused.  I don't think we have citrus flower mites in the Pacific Northwest though, but perhaps some other local pest serves a similar function?  I have noticed that the local sugar ants go wild over the flowers, sucking nectar; perhaps they can cause such damage?   They might serve to help pollinate the fruit as well.

Jim

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Xie Shan- fruit photos
« on: September 23, 2022, 11:48:20 AM »
Hi Malhar,

My Xie Shan set very few fruit this year, all but one of them still rather small.  But then, it was a very cold wet spring-early summer this year in the Pacific Northwest and many of my citrus bloomed late and set few or no fruit this year, possibly due to poor pollination.  On the other hand, a couple of the Satsumas are loaded.  Go figure.

Millet is right, the fruit set on your tree is awesome.

Jim

20
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Early St Ann Satsuma
« on: September 12, 2022, 11:35:03 AM »
HI Mike,
     Yeah, I got one.  It, and its sister LA Early, are my earliest ripening Satsumas.  Not necessarily the best flavored Satsuma.  Of my sweet citrus, only the Changsha tangerine can be enjoyed earlier.   
     Its hardiness is about the same as any Satsuma, around 18F during the extended freezes we can get in the Pacific Northwest; possibly lower for short duration freezes.

Jim   

21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Shortest Growing Season Citrus
« on: July 23, 2022, 10:19:54 AM »
Hi Piss P,

I got my Kabosu from McKenzie farms in South Carolina; it was grafted on a Citrange rootstock.  It's not shown in his list of Citrus, so you'll have to call and see if he has one in stock.

Jim

22
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Shortest Growing Season Citrus
« on: July 21, 2022, 11:22:04 AM »
Hi Peep,
     Based on my experience, the Sudachi and Yuzu are of comparable hardiness.  Both my large ten year old plants plants easily survived 8F (-13.3C) with only small twig damage, with other lows of 12F, 13F and 14F, during an extended freeze in January 2017 when the temperature stayed below freezing for over 110 hours.

Socal, judging by the pictures in your other thread, I suspect your plants succumbed because they were just too small.  I generally protect my plants from extreme cold for about three years, till the main trunk diameter is about the same diameter as my thumb (the 'rule of thumb':) and they are relatively bushy.  The larger size, and the protective effects of the larger canopy, gives them the energy they need to survive future cold snaps, which are relatively infrequent in the Pacific Northwest of the USA.

Pagnr,  Yes, I was talking about fully ripe Kabosu.  I do know that both Sudachi and Kabosu used in Ponzu sauce are used green, the Yuzu being used ripe(?).  Based on my taste test, the Sudachi has better flavor when green.  The Kabosu, the difference between green and ripe is not so clearcut, possibly because the ripe Kabosu is sweeter than either Yuzu or Kabosu. 

23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Shortest Growing Season Citrus
« on: July 20, 2022, 11:11:27 AM »
Hi Piss P,

     I find the Kabosu fruit to be quite good.  They're very round (hence the Sphaerocarpa in the Latin name), larger than a yuzu and have a complex flavor I enjoy, somewhat like Meyer lemons with a touch of grapefruit.  They have far fewer seeds than the Yuzu, and most years even fewer seeds than the Sudachi.
 They're just sweet enough you can eat them out of hand if your taste tends to the sour end.  Unlike the Yuzu, the peel is not aromatic and less flavorful, but it still has a nice lemony flavor. 
     I use them mainly for the juice, and to make marmalade during years, like this one, when my Yuzu has very few fruit.
     I haven't had a chance to test the hardiness yet but, given that it is closely related to Yuzu and Sudachi, it could well be hoped to be as hardy as those two.

Jim

24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Shortest Growing Season Citrus
« on: July 19, 2022, 11:19:40 AM »
Of the varieties I grow, because you normally harvest them green, as limes, my earliest harvested citrus is Sudachi in mid-October, followed by Thomasville Citrangequat a couple weeks later.  My earliest harvested ripe fruit is the Flying dragon (If you count that as a citrus) starting in mid-October, followed by Changsha tangerine in late October, then Kabosu and Yuzu in mid-November.   There are probably many other varieties that ripen as early (or earlier), which I don't grow.

Jim

25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Rooting Prague chimera cuttings
« on: July 19, 2022, 11:11:44 AM »
Hi Nullroar,
     I don't rightly recollect (to use a bit of western slang) what size I used four years ago, but I suspect they were on the small side.  I just went out and looked at what's out there now, and the Prague has the unfortunate property that the newest branches are rather flat.  From hat I just measured, the short dimension seems to be between 1/16 inch and 1/8 inch, while the wide dimension ranges from about 1/8 inch to 1/4 inch.   That's about
3mm-6mm.  I do recall I made two slices along opposite sides of the skinny side, forming a vee shape.
     Another weird thing I just noticed (nothing to do with taking cuttins) is that it appears to be starting a second bloom, which I've never seen before this early.  Maybe because almost no fruit set on the first bloom, due to the cold wet spring and early summer we've had this year.

Jim

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