Citrus > Cold Hardy Citrus
Recreating the grapefruit - C. maxima X Morton, troyer, poncirus, kumquat, Moro,
Till:
Thank you, SoCal2warm, for the background information. It will be difficult indeed to recreate a grapefruit. But perhaps something very similar is possible. I mean some citrumelos have a taste very close to pure grapefruit. Dunstan and Batumi Citrumelos come very close to it. Would they be sweet you had something like a grapefruit.
From where do you have that Chandler is triploid? I have never found that written, neither on an official homepage of UCR, nor in articles of the breeder, nor in private conversation. I fear that you have confused Chandler with some other Siamese Sweet crosses. I also doubt that Chandler is seedless because of triploidity. The reason will just be that it is self-incompartible to its own pollen as are all pumelos.
My Chandler was surprisingly seedless when cross-pollinated with Poncirus and other Citrus. I only got one seedy fruit after I had pollinated with African Shadock x Poncirus. I thought that Chandler accepted the pollen of A. x P. better than other pollen because it is half pumelo. This interpretation contradicts, however, the experience of others like Alan who were more successfull in producing Chandler hybrids.
And now I think I got it: My Chandler blooms abundantly but only the very last flower of a flower umbel produces a fruit no matter how it was pollinated. So all of my many pollinated flowers fell off except the very few flowers that opened at the end of flower period and that I did not pollinate any more. So this year, I used a trick: I cut off all flowers except the pollinated ones, namely only one from every umbel. And see what happened: These flowers formed the fruits. Now that is not proof that Chandler willingly accepts non-pumelo pollen. But I am optimistic that the nice fruits that now hang on the tree indeed contain seeds.
What speaks, by the way, against the theory that Chandler is triploid is that it abundantly produces pollen. Triploid plants are usually pollen sterile.
Ilya11:
--- Quote from: SoCal2warm on December 09, 2024, 12:58:11 AM ---
Chandler pomelo has a triploid set of chromosomes (that's what makes it "seedless").
--- End quote ---
Entirely false. Chandler is diploid and give many seeds when cross pollinated with compatible pollen.
Image from https://citrusvariety.ucr.edu/crc3244
Lauta_hibrid:
--- Quote from: Till on December 09, 2024, 02:20:05 AM ---Thank you, SoCal2warm, for the background information. It will be difficult indeed to recreate a grapefruit. But perhaps something very similar is possible. I mean some citrumelos have a taste very close to pure grapefruit. Dunstan and Batumi Citrumelos come very close to it. Would they be sweet you had something like a grapefruit.
From where do you have that Chandler is triploid? I have never found that written, neither on an official homepage of UCR, nor in articles of the breeder, nor in private conversation. I fear that you have confused Chandler with some other Siamese Sweet crosses. I also doubt that Chandler is seedless because of triploidity. The reason will just be that it is self-incompartible to its own pollen as are all pumelos.
My Chandler was surprisingly seedless when cross-pollinated with Poncirus and other Citrus. I only got one seedy fruit after I had pollinated with African Shadock x Poncirus. I thought that Chandler accepted the pollen of A. x P. better than other pollen because it is half pumelo. This interpretation contradicts, however, the experience of others like Alan who were more successfull in producing Chandler hybrids.
And now I think I got it: My Chandler blooms abundantly but only the very last flower of a flower umbel produces a fruit no matter how it was pollinated. So all of my many pollinated flowers fell off except the very few flowers that opened at the end of flower period and that I did not pollinate any more. So this year, I used a trick: I cut off all flowers except the pollinated ones, namely only one from every umbel. And see what happened: These flowers formed the fruits. Now that is not proof that Chandler willingly accepts non-pumelo pollen. But I am optimistic that the nice fruits that now hang on the tree indeed contain seeds.
What speaks, by the way, against the theory that Chandler is triploid is that it abundantly produces pollen. Triploid plants are usually pollen sterile.
--- End quote ---
I quote your post just to mention that after a video that talks about the metabolism of plants I mention "... the leaf makes photosynthesis, that generates sugars that travel to the bud, which is at the base of the leaf, and that stimulates it to form flowers instead of branches and leaves... that is why when a ring is made the sugar increases, since. or it can travel to feed. the root, and stimulates flowering. when there are many flowers the hormones suddenly drop (the hormones are stimulated by sugar) and so the plant throws them away. that is why my technique that I use from that moment on I call it "removing competition", meaning that I remove the flowers and buds that want to form outside of those that pollinate... it is a lot of work but I have managed to get all the fruit to be pollinated by me alone...
Lauta_hibrid:
--- Quote from: SoCal2warm on December 09, 2024, 12:23:45 AM ---
--- Quote from: Lauta_hibrid on November 25, 2024, 03:04:40 PM ---Grapefruit comes from the hybridization of C. maxima with an orange, but my question was what would happen if one of the parents was changed?
--- End quote ---
Grapefruit is a specific cross that has a specific origin.
There are several traditional Japanese varieties where C. maxima was introduced into mandarin (C. reticulata) breeding. (Think for example about the slightly sour more aromatic flavor of Satsuma mandarins)
The result will be a little bit different from the typical grapefruit flavor.
These fruits will be, in many ways, analogous to grapefruit, but they will not truly be real grapefruits. They will be similar but they will not have quite the exact same type of flavor.
This can be difficult to describe.
I can get into the chemical components of the aroma, if you want. One of the most important aroma compounds in both pomelo and grapefruit is nootkatone. It occurs only at very low levels but it's very potent at those low levels. It smells a little in the direction of mouth-puckering rhubarb but also a bit of a cleaner green and woody dimension.
But in grapefruit, in addition there is 1-p-Menthene-8-thiol (also called "Grapefruit mercaptan"), which smells kind of distinctively like "grapefruit" but in a completely different way. It was a subtly sweet aroma that is slightly pungent (slightly mild smell, in a way, yet "potent" in feeling at the same time). And strangely, if you compare it to the smell of coffee there is some subtle underlying similarity in the feel. It brings to mind more of a "pink grapefruit" feel. This almost feels more like edible grapefruit candy than natural grapefruit.
The distinctive aroma of orange (and especially Valencia variety of orange) comes from a substance called valencene, which is actually related to nootkatone, but doesn't have the oxygen atom that nootkatone has. They do kind of share some similarity in overall underlying feel but are also very different. Valencene does not have the rich mouth-puckering slightly "dirty" rhubarb feel that nootkatone has.
I think another important compound you'll find in many of the more aromatic mandarins is sinensal. It has a "bright" and "juicy" feeling, but also some "orange-citrus" tonalities like D-limonene does. Again, it's very reminiscent of "orange" but in more of a different way from valencene.
This is only a basic overview only touching the surface. Of course the full story is much more complicated.
When you cross a pomelo with a mandarin, you're going to get something that's a little bit similar to tangelo in flavor. But of course it will be more sour yellow and aromatic because it will have a higher percentage of C. maxima ancestry than a tangelo does. So maybe somewhere between a tangelo and a "grapefruit" sort of feel, but not with all of the distinctive aroma of a real grapefruit.
Keep in mind your offspring will likely be tasty but will contain a huge number of seeds.
The C. maxima x C. reticulata hybrids tend to have a little more hardiness than regular sweet oranges, so should grow well (or at least acceptably) in climate zone 9b.
--- End quote ---
About making a "new grapefruit" it's just a way of saying... since there is the "New Zealand grapefruit" which is not a grapefruit, but produces a fruit so similar that it is called that, there is also the "Paraná grapefruit" which is a variety described in Argentina but came from Asia. It is almost the same but very juicy and sweeter and less bitter than the line of grapefruits that came from the Barabados (the "real" varieties). That's why I call it that. If the grapefruit becomes quite resistant, imagine if you change something in the origin we would make something new inspired by the original. Anyway, thank you very much for that contribution, surely at some point I took everything you explained there to speak well founded hehe. For now I show you my first seedlings of Pummelo x poncirus flor grande and pummelo x troyer. And the variety of pummelo that I used does not have a name, it has many seeds (26 seeds). And I think we all deduce the triploidy because Chandler belongs to the same breeding plan as Oroblanco, which is defined as the result of crossing 4n x 2n.
Pummelo x troyer
Pummelo x Poncirus:
Till:
Nice :)
There were serveral crosses made with Siamese Sweet. Not all were triploid. Chandler and Valentine, for instance, not.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version