White sapote seed safety

[KarenRei]

White sapote seeds are said to be fatally toxic.  The general public is well known for not reading signs and doing stupid things. How much of a risk is there of a person who paid no attention to information given killing themselves with a white sapote?  E.g.:

 * Are the seeds fatal when eaten uncrushed, and is it possible to accidentally or intentionally swallow them whole?
 * If they're only fatal when crushed / damaged, is it realistic that a person could accidentally or deliberately do so with their teeth?
 * I've found a couple mentions of seedless trees.  Are seedless cultivars commercially available? I've heard that Suebelle is seedless in about half of its fruits...

Also, while we're on the topic, does the fruit actually make you sleepy?

[So_Cal_Mike]

 The seeds are fairly large, it is hard to imagine someone accidentally swallowing one, without first choking to death before succumbing to any toxicity. The seeds also have a covering on them, looking quite simmilar to a large, fat orange seed.
 I don’t have any information on the seed’s toxicity, other that stuff I’ve read on forums.
 I’ve never noticed any sleepiness after eating white sapote.

[Vernmented]

I wouldn't worry about it. Large seed with a tough coating. I decorticate before I sow mine and it is a pain. If someone makes it to that point they deserve what they have coming.

[spaugh]

I wouldn't worry about it. Large seed with a tough coating. I decorticate before I sow mine and it is a pain. If someone makes it to that point they deserve what they have coming.

Haha, probably a dog would eat it not a person. 

[achetadomestica]

Peach seeds are also toxic but I never accidently swallowed one?

[KarenRei]

Peach seeds are not deadly, even if you cracked them and ground them up.  The LD50 is something like 15 ground peach pits for an adult.

That said, thanks for the info on seed toughness, that should be good enough 

[achetadomestica]

I guess what I meant was the size is comparable to a peach seed, I also worry about
toxicity of fruit seeds because I feed over ripe and extra fruit to my tortoises. I don't think
it would be easy to swallow a white sapote seed but a tortoise would eat it including crunching
the seeds. I am glad you brought this to my attention. I have my first 3 fruit holding on my super
sweet white sapote. I am sure I won't have leftovers this year, I can't wait to try the fruit if they
don't abort.

[KarenRei]

Crushed white sapote seeds are supposedly used to kill cockroaches - both attracting and then killing them on the spot.  I'd remove the seed before your tortoise has a go 

The chemical compounds in the seeds (and in vastly smaller quantities in the fruit) are however of medical interest, under study as a non-habit-forming sleep aid, an anti-depressant, an anesthetic, a muscle relaxant, etc, as well as for treating hypertension and cancer.  Apparently the sleep-inducing compounds have such a strong effect that administered adrenaline doesn't counter them.

Hey, while we're on the subject of white sapotes - I know that seedlings grow insanely fast, but grafted trees are reported to be much slower growers.  How fast have yours been growing?

[ScottR]

I don't think the seeds have to be big to be toxic. he's my store when i first started getting W. sapotes from my tree's we started using them in smoothies in the morning and i was taking out big seeds but i was missing small flat under developed seeds. Well both of us my wife and i would start getting stomach aches about a couple hours later, it took us a few day's of trial  to figure out it was the small seeds that we were missing when putting sapote into blender. So we don't put sapote in blender any more just eat them and spit out little seeds.
beware of the little ones too!

[KarenRei]

I don't think the seeds have to be big to be toxic. he's my store when i first started getting W. sapotes from my tree's we started using them in smoothies in the morning and i was taking out big seeds but i was missing small flat under developed seeds. Well both of us my wife and i would start getting stomach aches about a couple hours later, it took us a few day's of trial  to figure out it was the small seeds that we were missing when putting sapote into blender. So we don't put sapote in blender any more just eat them and spit out little seeds.
beware of the little ones too!

Hmm, thanks for that caveat!

[Bush2Beach]

I fail to see the humor in a dog eating a toxic seed. I do however know a dog that loves eating White Sapote. Must be pretty smart to avoid the chicken tongue seeds.

I wouldn't worry about it. Large seed with a tough coating. I decorticate before I sow mine and it is a pain. If someone makes it to that point they deserve what they have coming.

Haha, probably a dog would eat it not a person.

[Future]

Peach seeds are not deadly, even if you cracked them and ground them up.  The LD50 is something like 15 ground peach pits for an adult.

That said, thanks for the info on seed toughness, that should be good enough 

Actually, there is a considerable market for (eating) peach seeds. (B17)

[spaugh]

I fail to see the humor in a dog eating a toxic seed. I do however know a dog that loves eating White Sapote. Must be pretty smart to avoid the chicken tongue seeds.

I wouldn't worry about it. Large seed with a tough coating. I decorticate before I sow mine and it is a pain. If someone makes it to that point they deserve what they have coming.

Haha, probably a dog would eat it not a person.

I was laughing at the previous post. 

And making a point that dogs will probably be more of a risk of eating them than a person. 

Relax, I love dogs.  And mine will eat any fruit, seed and all.  Peach pits, avocado seeds, sapote, anything.  She usually pukes them up in our living room later that day.

[achetadomestica]

Hey, while we're on the subject of white sapotes - I know that seedlings grow insanely fast, but grafted trees are reported to be much slower growers.  How fast have yours been growing?
[/quote]

I have a Suebelle and supersweet tree. I got both as 3 gallons and put them in the ground in
direct sunlight. I ended up putting frost cloth over both trees to avoid direct sunlight. Both trees had
turned yellow and both trees turned back dark green. I have had the trees for a couple years and the
suebelle is 10' and the supersweet is 8'. I thought both had grown well but I never raised a seedling
to compare? The suebelle is flushing new leaves now as we had a cold winter and I am hoping to see
flowers soon?

[KarenRei]

So about 1 1/2 feet per year on average (depending on the size of the tree in the 3 gal pot and what you mean by "couple years")?    Call it half a meter per year?  I'd call that medium-slow.  Certainly there are much slower trees out there.    Seedlings reportedly grow about 1,5m per year after getting established, which is very fast.  Not moringa-fast, but still fast!  But seedlings don't bear until 8-10 years.

[achetadomestica]

So about 1 1/2 feet per year on average (depending on the size of the tree in the 3 gal pot and what you mean by "couple years")?    Call it half a meter per year?  I'd call that medium-slow.  Certainly there are much slower trees out there.    Seedlings reportedly grow about 1,5m per year after getting established, which is very fast.  Not moringa-fast, but still fast!  But seedlings don't bear until 8-10 years.

I think they grew a little more then that per year. The supersweet was a small 2' tree in a 3 gallon and the suebelle was 3'
I wrote a couple cause I don't write down notes like I should and it was 2-3 years ago. It seems like yesterday? The older I get
the faster time flies! I think they are growing more like 2'-3' per year but they are starting to spread out

[KarenRei]

Okay, that's not a bad rate at all 

[aaronn]

Relax, I love dogs.  And mine will eat any fruit, seed and all.  Peach pits, avocado seeds, sapote, anything.  She usually pukes them up in our living room later that day.
[/quote]

I’m glad to read some actual dog eating white sapote seed experience. Is this still the case Brad? Your dog still eats white sapote seed and just throws it up? I’m hoping to plant a tree or two in my yard but we have a dog and it very likely might eat the fruit, seeds and all.
Anyone else have dog/white sapote experience?