The Tropical Fruit Forum
Tropical Fruit => Tropical Fruit Discussion => Topic started by: snhabegger on April 01, 2014, 11:51:01 AM
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I just wanted to revive the discussion of white sapotes from a bit back. It basically ended with Oscar talking about how a superior white sapote is an awesome fruit -- but neither he nor anyone else got into which varieties are best. I'm going to try and find a couple of grafted trees -- and I'd love to know what kinds I should really look for (particularly for a planting site that has an extensive dry season).
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I asked harry a while back and he said the best are younghan's gold. They sometimes have a bitter aftertaste (that is undetectable to about half the population sampled) and are variable year to year if I recall. But, as I understand it, a good WS is a top-tier fruit.
I am growing Redlands and younghan's gold. Those are the only 2 available down near Miami. That is for FL though....I am sure the CA guys grow other types like suebelle.
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The commonly sold variety is suebelle. It's a yellow skinned variety with small fruits larger than a mandarin but smaller than an orange. The advantage is that it turns yellow on ripening so the less experienced home grower can see the difference. On average about half the seeds in a fruit is aborted so flesh to seed ratio is good.
There are two types of skin: yellow and green. It refers to the color of the ripe fruit. Green-skinned ones are sweeter.
The next most talked about variety is the McDill. It is a large green fruit. Fruit clusters on a tree looks impressive, like green softballs. Seeds are also large and most are full seeds. Some people feel it's too sweet but there are sweeter varieties still.
Some varieties have a bitter taste to the skin. I normally peel off the skin before eating.
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One thing Oscar mentioned in the earlier thread is that the white sapote has not been successful commercially, because the best-tasting cultivars are too fragile. I think that I'd like to try and grow a superior, non-commercial one more than one that's found in stores. If the only banana I'd ever eaten was the one they sell in North America, I wouldn't care much for bananas . . .
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Nick, there are a lot better tasting varieties than McDill, Suebelle, etc. I have a variety that has a butterscotch taste, and others that are more complex. An old timer here in San Diego county has a few acres of 20 or more varieties. The scion wood has been distributed to a lot of people in California.
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Nick, there are a lot better tasting varieties than McDill, Suebelle, etc. I have a variety that has a butterscotch taste, and others that are more complex. An old timer here in San Diego county has a few acres of 20 or more varieties. The scion wood has been distributed to a lot of people in California.
Nice.
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Can you gentlemen tell me the names of these cultivars? I would be most grateful!
I've written to Pine Island Nursery to see if their white sapotes are grafted and of what type, but they haven't written back yet.
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Suebelle tastes great but is a smaller fruit and the Leroy I tried at Marks house was outstanding. Sorry I don't have any additional information on them.
Simon
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That right there is good, thanks. I can use that to poke around nursery sites, see what they say.
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How about Vernon? Thinking about getting one at Home Depot.
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Vernon is and excellent variety, Chestnut (supposed butterscotch flavor), Pike, Rainbow, Cuccio,Suebelle,Fiesta, Malibu #1& 3, I have Pike,Vernon,Suebelle, Rainbow seedling fruiting for me so far out of many,many varieties! Above all are winners to me! Good luck in your search! ;) 8)
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There are a ton of White sapote cultivars here in california. I know a few people who have over a dozen varieties on one tree. I don't have a lot of experience between yellow and green skinned varieties, I thought i had read previously that yellow skinned were tastier, but I could have it mixed up. My young white sapote has fruited twice (still small fruit) and I've tried mail order fruit, and locally grown ( at a friend's house) fruit. The fruit is really interesting, Like a complex mix of flavor including some mango aftertaste. I want to multigraft my tree to have different varieties. So far, I have suebelle, and walton on it. Walton doesn't bloom as readily but has already set a fruit.
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Can you gentlemen tell me the names of these cultivars? I would be most grateful!
I've written to Pine Island Nursery to see if their white sapotes are grafted and of what type, but they haven't written back yet.
they have grafted younghan's gold and grafted redlands
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You know what's kind of strange about this fruit, from my perspective? (And frustrating too.) From what I can tell, the white sapote is basically a minor fruit -- Julia Morton doesn't give any great shakes to it, you don't see fanatics discussing it like mangoes, it's not shipped, etc. But, it seems to have a real truck-load of cultivars, which substantial variation between them; but at the same time, it's not important enough for fruit nurseries to really go into much detail about it. Not only do most of them not offer much information about what cultivars they have, but most of them seem to have different varieties, and none of them are the ones that people are listing here as superior . . .
For me, it's tricky -- I probably have one shot at getting these to Thailand, and so I need to choose good varieties, that are able to pollinate each other. It's a bit of a crap-shoot; if I had to do the same thing with apples, there are many, many types I just don't care for, and a few that I love.
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i feel you....you have to think about what works best for your climate....I would bet thailand is closer to fl or hawaii than CA, but that's just a guess....i can't plant lots of stuff that forum members rave about (avocado threads for example are completely different for CA growers and FL growers). Oscar is usually good at assessing climates around the world and what would grow well.
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You know what's kind of strange about this fruit, from my perspective? (And frustrating too.) From what I can tell, the white sapote is basically a minor fruit -- Julia Morton doesn't give any great shakes to it, you don't see fanatics discussing it like mangoes, it's not shipped, etc. But, it seems to have a real truck-load of cultivars, which substantial variation between them; but at the same time, it's not important enough for fruit nurseries to really go into much detail about it. Not only do most of them not offer much information about what cultivars they have, but most of them seem to have different varieties, and none of them are the ones that people are listing here as superior . . .
For me, it's tricky -- I probably have one shot at getting these to Thailand, and so I need to choose good varieties, that are able to pollinate each other. It's a bit of a crap-shoot; if I had to do the same thing with apples, there are many, many types I just don't care for, and a few that I love.
White sapote are ahrd to ship. Even hard fruit, if banged around will bruise and rot in the spot smacked. It's a good fruit, but quite delicate. As you mention about fruit. There isn't a whole lot of attention paid to most tropical/subtropical fruits, but especially so white sapote. most people don't know what cherimoya, white sapote, mamey, or even what loquats or guavas are. There is such a plethora that is being under utilized. I like white sapote. I find them having different flavors at different stages of ripeness. I cannot wait until my tree gets to an age and size where it bears scrupulous amounts of fruit!
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I agree with Jeff. You're going about it the wrong way around. You need to find out what will do best in your climate, not what people think are the best tasting cultivars. Remember that white sapote is not really a tropical fruit, more of a sub tropical. There are a few cultivars that do ok in the tropics, and those are the ones you should get. The cultivars that do well in Hawaii or Florida are much more likely to fruit for you well than ones that are favored in California. The most popular white sapote here in Hawaii is McDill. Pick up the cultivars sold in S. Florida. You could also plant seeds from your trees once they start fruiting and maybe get one that's even more suited and adapted to your climate.
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I agree with Jeff. You're going about it the wrong way around. You need to find out what will do best in your climate, not what people think are the best tasting cultivars. Remember that white sapote is not really a tropical fruit, more of a sub tropical. There are a few cultivars that do ok in the tropics, and those are the ones you should get. The cultivars that do well in Hawaii or Florida are much more likely to fruit for you well than ones that are favored in California. The most popular white sapote here in Hawaii is McDill. Pick up the cultivars sold in S. Florida. You could also plant seeds from your trees once they start fruiting and maybe get one that's even more suited and adapted to your climate.
Fair enough, that's probably the best approach -- but I would like to avoid the cultivars you mention in an other thread as being less worth consuming (since those were in California, this jibes with your advice). Where are Suebelle and Leroy from?
Also, do you know if there are cultivars from southern Mexico that might be more likely to grow in Thailand? There must be, even if they aren't named or established -- it's weird that the white sapote is so diverse in the U.S., where it's peripheral in every way. Someone must have put a fair bit of work into it in the past.
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The "Leroy" is from a tree in Vista in San Diego county, the original tree is pretty huge. The grower (Leroy) is real nice and doesn't get out anymore, and has some real nice large other fruit trees. The fruit is medium size, turns yellow when ripe and has that butterscotch flavor.
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White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is a 40' by my office and it's been prune!
(http://s9.postimg.cc/7j6wrueqz/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/7j6wrueqz/)
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White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is a 40' by my office and it's been prune!
(http://s9.postimg.cc/7j6wrueqz/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/7j6wrueqz/)
My god it's a monster... ;D
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White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is a 40' by my office and it's been prune!
(http://s9.postimg.cc/7j6wrueqz/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/7j6wrueqz/)
Frank did you get a chance to try that sapote I left with you guys? It is from a lone tree in a field by the side of the road, so probably a seedling.
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White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is a 40' by my office and it's been prune!
(http://s9.postimg.cc/7j6wrueqz/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/7j6wrueqz/)
Frank did you get a chance to try that sapote I left with you guys? It is from a lone tree in a field by the side of the road, so probably a seedling.
Yes Mark that was excellent! It's funny when you drive by the alleys in a Hispanic neighborhoods you find these trees growing wild and the majority of them are of excellent quality.
These trees are super vigorous beware when you prune them they will bounce back in 6 months.
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Keep in mind the fact that any cultivar is worth trying in the tropics, or elsewhere. White sapote is easy enough to graft, in fact, it's one of the easier. I just gotta say this, If I limited myself to growing what I and other people originally thought would grow well in my climate, I would have stuck to stone fruits, grapes, and berries...I would have never known I could fruit bananas, cherimoya, guava, white sapote and would have never known that things like Rollinia deliciosa, black sapote, green sapote, custard apple, mango and a few other tropicals are pretty much unphased by my winter (we'll see about friuit in the next couple of years ;)) Meanwhile, part of the fun of having a garden is the experimentation!! You'll never truly know until you try.
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White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is a 40' by my office and it's been prune!
(http://s9.postimg.cc/7j6wrueqz/image.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/7j6wrueqz/)
My god it's a monster... ;D
Thanks for the pic! I can see how WS would grow very vigorously if not grafted. I've grown a few seedlings that grow straight up! Grafting seems to dwarf them considerably. Part of me wants to let a seedling grow and become a massive tree like the on your pictured! The other part wouldn't want to be cleaning up that much fallen fruit, or dealing with animals attracted to the fruit. lol
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Keep in mind the fact that any cultivar is worth trying in the tropics, or elsewhere. White sapote is easy enough to graft, in fact, it's one of the easier. I just gotta say this, If I limited myself to growing what I and other people originally thought would grow well in my climate, I would have stuck to stone fruits, grapes, and berries...I would have never known I could fruit bananas, cherimoya, guava, white sapote and would have never known that things like Rollinia deliciosa, black sapote, green sapote, custard apple, mango and a few other tropicals are pretty much unphased by my winter (we'll see about friuit in the next couple of years ;)) Meanwhile, part of the fun of having a garden is the experimentation!! You'll never truly know until you try.
That is true we are amazed by what you are growing at 37* keep it up!
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How come nobody has mentioned Bonita Springs. I've only had one and have nothing to compare it against but I thought it was very good and there was no bad after taste that I could tell. Here's a picture of it growing like a weed.
(http://s21.postimg.cc/4aj9r7a7n/IMG_1073.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4aj9r7a7n/)
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I am on the hunt for bonita springs.
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I agree with Jeff. You're going about it the wrong way around. You need to find out what will do best in your climate, not what people think are the best tasting cultivars. Remember that white sapote is not really a tropical fruit, more of a sub tropical. There are a few cultivars that do ok in the tropics, and those are the ones you should get. The cultivars that do well in Hawaii or Florida are much more likely to fruit for you well than ones that are favored in California. The most popular white sapote here in Hawaii is McDill. Pick up the cultivars sold in S. Florida. You could also plant seeds from your trees once they start fruiting and maybe get one that's even more suited and adapted to your climate.
Fair enough, that's probably the best approach -- but I would like to avoid the cultivars you mention in an other thread as being less worth consuming (since those were in California, this jibes with your advice). Where are Suebelle and Leroy from?
Also, do you know if there are cultivars from southern Mexico that might be more likely to grow in Thailand? There must be, even if they aren't named or established -- it's weird that the white sapote is so diverse in the U.S., where it's peripheral in every way. Someone must have put a fair bit of work into it in the past.
There was an effort to commercialize white sapote in Southern California, i believe in the 1950's. But it seems not enough energy was put into it. The bad commercial type i mentioned before i never ever saw it again. It's not a widespread cultivar. So don't worry about that one because you couldn't get it even if you wanted to find it.
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Reineke Commercial was one attempt.
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Reineke Commercial was one attempt.
Does Reineke have really dark green exterior and thick skinned?
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Don't know Oscar, I did get in on the wood gathering in Bob Chamber's collection of white sapotes, but Reineke has not fruited yet. We ate so many different ones in the grove that we were overwhelmed. Reineke was an old time member of the original CRFG. His name is attached to several different fruits from that era. I just assumed that his selection must have had thicker skin to protect it during commercial handling. I have shipped fruit (Vernon and Pike) when green and they arrived in edible state. I have a huge tree, 40-50 ft tall, 30 - 40 ft wide, that produces large quantities of fruit. If not picked green (slightly yellow), they explode when the hit the ground. I followed advice and planted this tree far away from where people walk. Under the tree are fruits melting into the ground, fermenting, and fruit fly heaven. This tree is multigrafted and is about 38 years old. It took 24 degrees this winter, has taken 19 degrees. No harm done.
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I am on the hunt for bonita springs.
Gunnar429 if you have the rootstock I'm sure I can spare a scion or two.
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ok, let me get back to you in a little while (maybe a few months) when I can get some rootstock and really learn to graft. Thanks, though...will definitely keep it in mind. :)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrtpDIaPcWY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrtpDIaPcWY)
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Andrew - does the bonita fruit well for you? one concern is about pollen viability. It appears that some cultivars may have sterile pollen which may explain people's issues with fruit set here in Florida. If bonita sets well it has viable pollen and could potentially be used to cross pollinate other varieties as well I assume.
Let us know
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Andrew - does the bonita fruit well for you? one concern is about pollen viability. It appears that some cultivars may have sterile pollen which may explain people's issues with fruit set here in Florida. If bonita sets well it has viable pollen and could potentially be used to cross pollinate other varieties as well I assume.
Let us know
I know the tree looks big in that picture but I've only had it for less than a year. I found it in a clearance pile in the back of a local nursery. It was in bad shape too. A crack was running down the middle and there was not even a single leaf left on the entire tree. Despite all of this there was a fairly large fruit developing on it. I picked the fruit and eat it when I got the tree home and despite it being immature it was still good and no bad after taste I could tell. So, I think it could have the potential to be a very good producer. If I had to make a guess I would say the tree has been in the ground for eight months. This time next year I sure it will be triple the size and I will be able to more accurately give you a reference for its production.
P.S.
Just found this thread where a person named ofdsurfer shared his experiences with the Bonite Spring and it appears that it is self pollinating.
http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=af1108fddecc8815dfea81c863e0fdf3&topic=1073 (http://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=af1108fddecc8815dfea81c863e0fdf3&topic=1073)
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Thanks Andrew - yes I have PMed Oldsurfer and it looks like his Bonita Spring is setting regularly but aborting fruit before maturity. This year however he said it looks as if it may hold it. I may go for a bonita and a redland. Suebelle sounds to be the best of the lot but based on the feedback I am seeing in this Forum it is a little finicky here in Florida... Hope for the Bonita to pollinate the redland...
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"Reineke was an old time member of the original CRFG. His name is attached to several different fruits from that era. I just assumed that his selection must have had thicker skin to protect it during commercial handling."
Jack, the story I remember from an early issue of the CRFG newsletter (before it morphed into The Fruit Gardener magazine) was that the Reinecke Commercial was named because they tended to ripen all at once; one of the main drawbacks for WS being (from a commercial standpoint) that they fruit and ripen in waves throughput the year (in some climates) and that the color change is so subtle that it make harvesting by untrained workers a problem. The Reinecke was supposed to address this issue, but was by some accounts at least, not the best flavored; I have not tasted it myself. I believe Bob Chambers kept it in his collection to preserve the even-ripening trait for future breeding.
As to the Leroy, developed by Leroy Ross in Vista, it is my favorite out of a dozen or so varieties I have tasted. Leroy brought some scions in to Quail Gardens when I worked there and I grafted about a dozen trees; I don't know if one ever got planted in the fruit garden. I took one with me to Hawaii, and planted it on the Hamakua coast. Excellent flavor and highly productive.. I don't know of any commercial source for it.
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There were about 3 WS trees at Quail as of 2 years ago but I don't remember any were Leroy. I only remember the suebelle.
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My Mc Dill is fruiting for the first time :)
(http://s14.postimg.cc/l0zb5y7bh/IMGP3678.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l0zb5y7bh/)
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My Mc Dill is fruiting for the first time :)
(http://s14.postimg.cc/l0zb5y7bh/IMGP3678.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l0zb5y7bh/)
Beautiful tree! I love white sapote. My suebell is fruiting heavy this year, Unfortunately I grafted a large branch over to walton in 2012 and I have gotten nothing from it! I think I am going to graft it to another variety over the walton eventually
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Is anyone seeing swallowtail butterfly larvae on their WS trees? They look like bird poop and blend in really well to the semi-hard twigs.
I picked of 4 large ones and several tiny ones yesterday after seeing they were eating all the young tips and leaves.
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Ya mine are covered, but they must taste good, something eats them all and turns them into real poo!
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My Mc Dill is fruiting for the first time :)
(http://s14.postimg.cc/l0zb5y7bh/IMGP3678.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l0zb5y7bh/)
Congrats! Let me know what u think!
I hear it's a great cultivar!
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My Mc Dill is fruiting for the first time :)
(http://s14.postimg.cc/l0zb5y7bh/IMGP3678.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/l0zb5y7bh/)
Just curious...What is a function of that hanging bottle on your tree?
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Just curious...What is a function of that hanging bottle on your tree?
It's my Dad's fly trap. He puts some red wine with sugar. The bottles has a few small holes and it gets full of fruit lies...
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I've seen fruit flies attracted this way for pollinating cherimoya. No idea if it works. He does get good fruits. He uses tanglefoot to keep the ants off.
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Just curious...What is a function of that hanging bottle on your tree?
It's my Dad's fly trap. He puts some red wine with sugar. The bottles has a few small holes and it gets full of fruit lies...
Thanks. I thought that you put some water or fertilizer for your tree :)
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Just a quick update on my trees.
I ended up buying a white sapote variety homestead from Linda in 2014. It was a 3 gallon little tree that against all odds was already bearing 1 fruit. During the transplant by accident I hit the fruit which fell. It had not developed fully yet but I thought I would try to have it ripen on the kitchen counter.
The fruit did soften and it was delicious. The taste made me think of flan or custard. It is sweet and creamy with hints of vanilla. 1 year and a half later (early this year) the tree developed 3 panicles and it has now 11 little white sapotes growing fast.
Since there are no other nearby trees I must conclude that homestead is self fertile. In the meanwhile I also bought a redlands which appears to be popular in South Florida and today a second homestead (I could eat white sapote all day).
Like others mentioned you should focus on those varieties that grow well here. That is why like Gunnar I am also in the market for a bonita springs which based on Andrew and oldsurfer has viable pollen.
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You're welcome to some bud wood from my Bonita springs if you want any.
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There were about 3 WS trees at Quail as of 2 years ago but I don't remember any were Leroy. I only remember the suebelle.
Fang the 3 varieties at Quail (San Diego Botanical Garden) are Vernon, Chestnut and Suebelle.
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Thanks Mark. Good to know. I never found out when I was there.
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What is the general consensus on Redlands?
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I had an SES2 for several years, it was constantly dying back. It was a delicate balancing act of too much or too little water. The last time it died back and started to flush new growth we had a long rain spell and it started to yellow and wilt again so I threw in the towel and yanked it. Too bad it was a nice looking tree.
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white sapot can fruit well in pure tropics, sea level...?.,having average annual rainfall of 300 cm...
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In my experience, Vernon is one of the very best varieties, and I have tried a few others. Larger fruits, great vanilla custard taste, and bears frequently and heavily. If I could only have one tree I would pick Vernon.
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Here are some pictures of my homestead. Planted 2 years back already blooming and setting fruit. It must be self fertile as I have yet to see another white sapote tree in the neighborhood.
Question for the experts: I think the branch on the right which shoots for the sky grows from the rootstock and not from the graft. I posted a close up, what do you think am I right?
If yes I am inclined to remove it. However I wonder whether I should do it immediately or after harvest.
I cannot figure out whether that branch helps the tree support fruit development (if yes I would live it) or slow the process down by taking energy for its own growth (in which case I would remove immediately).
Also I am afraid of shocking the tree...
What do you guys think? Also how do I cut it and avoid the rootstock to produce 10 more shots from that very same area?
Thanks for any help.
(http://s32.postimg.cc/naaqa1vq9/IMG_5809.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/naaqa1vq9/)
(http://s32.postimg.cc/efexwnd9d/IMG_5810.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/efexwnd9d/)
(http://s32.postimg.cc/jkg5e9q75/IMG_5811.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/jkg5e9q75/)
(http://s32.postimg.cc/kqk5d2eht/IMG_5812.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/kqk5d2eht/)
(http://s32.postimg.cc/8i60ippsx/IMG_5813.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/8i60ippsx/)
(http://s32.postimg.cc/vd4b7mqxt/IMG_5814.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/vd4b7mqxt/)
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white sapot can fruit well in pure tropics, sea level...?.,having average annual rainfall of 300 cm...
It may depend on the cultivar. It seems some cultivars do well in tropical conditions and others don't. C. tetrameria definitely will fruit in tropical conditions, but from what I understand it's not as good of a fruit (I've never tried it).
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wow, nice fruit crazyforcherimoya! It just looks like mine too ;D I can't wait to taste mine too..This is the 2nd year and already getting fruit.. not as big as yours though.. I think you should just let it fruit and then remove the branch after harvest.. It looks as thick as the main trunk so that's not good if you remove it now since you have fruit.. The fruit would need as many leaves as possible now..
(http://s32.postimg.cc/3v17aertt/White_Sapote_Suebelle7.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/3v17aertt/)
(http://s32.postimg.cc/4ghwhs601/White_Sapote_Fruits1_Suebelle7.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/4ghwhs601/)
(http://s32.postimg.cc/3uxzish9d/White_Sapote_Fruits2_Suebelle7.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/3uxzish9d/)
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What is interesting is that the tree is blooming again. The blooms in the pictured are opening now while fruit keep developing. I can count at least 5 more panicles.
Also it is worth reminding that I am in SOUTH FLORIDA. You Californians have it easier with Annonas, Avos and white sapote.
Down here (Miami and surroundings) White Sapote does not fruit consistently. So if somebody would like to give it a try I highly recommend homestead cultivar from Excalibur. It appears being self fertile.
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I don't get why Sapote is considered too big to grow even if they taste great. Not a problem as they are very pruneable. Mine is about 30 years old and I prune it from a 6' ladder and polesaw to about 15' tall and wide. It's like what Floridians say about Mango's there. At that size they have plenty of fruit for a family.
Mine has a nice hemisphere canopy as thus:
(http://s32.postimg.cc/xiimv0qn5/IMG_3549.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/xiimv0qn5/)
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Great canopy and super good looking tree!
In S florida I do not think folks complaint about size much but rather about lack of consistent production.
I don't get why Sapote is considered too big to grow even if they taste great. Not a problem as they are very pruneable. Mine is about 30 years old and I prune it from a 6' ladder and polesaw to about 15' tall and wide. It's like what Floridians say about Mango's there. At that size they have plenty of fruit for a family.
Mine has a nice hemisphere canopy as thus:
(http://s32.postimg.cc/xiimv0qn5/IMG_3549.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/xiimv0qn5/)
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I don't get why Sapote is considered too big to grow even if they taste great. Not a problem as they are very pruneable. Mine is about 30 years old and I prune it from a 6' ladder and polesaw to about 15' tall and wide. It's like what Floridians say about Mango's there. At that size they have plenty of fruit for a family.
Mine has a nice hemisphere canopy as thus:
(http://s32.postimg.cc/xiimv0qn5/IMG_3549.jpg) (http://postimg.cc/image/xiimv0qn5/)
Beautiful tree, and so is your daughter!
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Thanks John,CFC. Also- to the right is a Baileys Mango in ground since 2014. I've had it since 2012. In front and middle? That's a sky blue Weber's Tequila Agave. Sort of fits as a TF in a certain way. ::)
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Just ran across this list I made up of WS cultivars:
Charles Early
Suebelle
Pike
Kampong
Leroy
Younghan's Gold
Redlands
McDill
Vernon
Michele
USDA
Chestnut
Rainbow
Cuccio
Malibu #1
Malibu #3
Walton
Gwin
Bonita Springs
Reinecke Commercial
Selck
Vista
Edgehill
Mexico
Reinecke #9
Nies
Lemon Gold
Salad
Cate
Troweridge
Selk
Golden Globe
Pritchard
Bravo
Ortega
Tremont
Smathers
Roa
Lammertz
Clytia
Nettie
Fourney
Rixford
Snyder
Ecke
Louise
Maltby
Stickley
Wilson
Mac's Golden
Florida
White
Fallbrook
Fisch
San Felipe
Arcadia
Ramsey
Ramsey Large
Miller
Yellow
Sheffler
5G2-S
4A1-S
Homestead
SES 1
SES 2
Jay Rusky Yellow
Popenoe
Thomson
Simmons
Burkill
Hawaiian Supreme
Chris
May
Blumenthal
Chapman
Coleman
Galloway
Gillespie
Johnston's Golden
Harvey
Lenz
Lesley
LNP
Ed's Wooly
Maechtlen
Lomita
Page
Parroquia
Sarah Jones
Whatley
Wood
Dade
Santa Cruz
5B8-S
Fiesta
Snyder
Walton
Candy
These are varieties I was able to find from an internet search; there may be others in the literature. Most of these are from Bob Chambers collection; not sure how many of these could still be found.
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Mangomike, that's quite the list but I've been to Bob chambers grove's and many of those varieties were not there! There could be that many varieties out there but I bet that many are renamed older varieties! Cool list thanks for posting! ;) 8)But you are right that many of those varieties were from Bob's place and I will always be grateful for Bob letting us to come to his grove's to gather scion wood before he passed ::)
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Keep in mind the fact that any cultivar is worth trying in the tropics, or elsewhere. White sapote is easy enough to graft, in fact, it's one of the easier. I just gotta say this, If I limited myself to growing what I and other people originally thought would grow well in my climate, I would have stuck to stone fruits, grapes, and berries...I would have never known I could fruit bananas, cherimoya, guava, white sapote and would have never known that things like Rollinia deliciosa, black sapote, green sapote, custard apple, mango and a few other tropicals are pretty much unphased by my winter (we'll see about friuit in the next couple of years ;)) Meanwhile, part of the fun of having a garden is the experimentation!! You'll never truly know until you try.
Vallejo winters have seen 19-25 degrees in recent times. Average low temps throughout the months are in 40s and 50s. Do you plant in containers and move them? Have you ever gotten mango trees to fruit up there? Curious. I agree, part of the fun in gardening is experimenting and "zone pushing".
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If california hasn't he will. I have had Mangoes fruit in Hayward..sweet.
I have Ice Cream Banana..3 going on three years (already??) and I did plant a Santol. That I mention as just going whole hog experiment. It got too big as a houseplant. I only wanted one to remind my wife of the Philippines. Even she said "Put it out!" after 5 years from a seedling. Right now new leaves are slowly coming out after its planting in March.
Its been near 30 years since we had a deep freeze. Maybe never again as the bay area has nearly doubled in population since the 70's. Plus the GW stuff you have hear about... ;)
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I'm looking for some WS scions to graft to two seedling that I have in Brazil zone 9B. It's hot and humid with a lot of rainfall in the summer, but cold to 32F in the winter. I was thinking Vernon and Leroy might be good ones to try. Because of my climate, I'm not sure if I should go with the FL or the CA varieties. Does anyone have any suggestions here? Also, where can I buy scions to be sent to me in Providence, RI?
Thanks,
Marc Doyle
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Read that Rainbow, Walton and Malibu #3 are top tier white sapote varieties in CA. I got these trees form Bush2Beach last year and am growing them here in Phoenix AZ. Hope they turn out good!
I also have a nursery bought Vernon fruiting. It's been in the ground 3 years.
Vernon does way better than the slow growing Suebelle here in the hot desert. I've kill many Suebelles before I got the Vernon. Suebelle is less tolerant of the heat/sun and the cold probably due to it being low vigor and having woolly leaves. It also takes much longer to start bearing fruit here(I read 8 years)!
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8 years?! That sounds like the number for a seedling (in CA).
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Haha yeah, I would have chopped it down after 5. Suebelle is not even worth topworking here, but it's what HD and Lowes here stock. Vernons are less common.
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Read that Rainbow, Walton and Malibu #3 are top tier white sapote varieties in CA. I got these trees form Bush2Beach last year and am growing them here in Phoenix AZ. Hope they turn out good!
I also have a nursery bought Vernon fruiting. It's been in the ground 3 years.
Vernon does way better than the slow growing Suebelle here in the hot desert. I've kill many Suebelles before I got the Vernon. Suebelle is less tolerant of the heat/sun and the cold probably due to it being low vigor and having woolly leaves. It also takes much longer to start bearing fruit here(I read 8 years)!
Keep us updated on how those three do here in AZ.
I too have killed many Sue Belles.
My successful attempt now is a McDill seedling. Quite vigorous so far.
Anyone experienced on grafting these? what's the best method and time to graft them?
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I would say sometime in Feb right after the last frost. Similar to citrus. White sapotes are easy to graft. Use cleft graft for same size stock/scion. Use off center cleft if scion is a bit smaller. Use bark graft, side graft or budding or if stock is too thick.
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curious as o what varieties might be good for New Orleans
zone 9 (a/b border area)
long hot humid summer days., pretty high rainfall avg year round.
mild winters.
Grafting in spring ?
my tree is about 7ft planted in spring.
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I'm also borderline 9a/b and have to plant my white sapotes in choice spots close to the house to minimize cold damage. I wish I had more choice spots.
I read that Walton was observed to have the least frost damage than many other varieties planted in the same place in CA.
Santa Cruz is a large vigorous seedling tree from Santa Cruz, CA where it gets pretty cold for white sapotes.
Vernon seems to take the cold well in my yard.
I'm not sure how they would handle the humidity though.
Yes, spring starts in Feb for us in Phoenix, AZ