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Messages - 1rainman

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Greening takes a really long time to kill a tree. In the meantime you get edible but less sweet even sour fruit. They just mix the sour fruit with sweet juice from Brazil or Mexico. When the tree finally died they plant more. Now they have the nets and at least one variety more resistant then use pesticides. There's also a bunch of hybrids with poncirus etc that aren't approved yet but are disease resistant.

The acreage will continue to decline as property is sold for retirement homes or replanted with stuff like Florida peaches but I doubt it will die completely.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: sick and tired of buying soil
« on: February 14, 2023, 05:41:09 PM »
Where do you live? They sell cheap compost here. The cow manure mixed with wood composted is cheap and pretty good. There is no smell or anything because it composted. Usually there's already some sand in the compost here. I would add some perlite, maybe sand or clay.

They also sell big blocks of peat moss in bulk cheap. Again mix with perlite and sand maybe some compost and you got potting soil. Mulch is also cheap. It roots into compost.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Root rot cure
« on: February 12, 2023, 06:54:22 PM »
I forgot that. If my pots seem too soggy holes on the side as well as bottom help.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: HLB Virus Map
« on: February 12, 2023, 06:52:16 PM »
I plugged in my Florida address which is infested with greening but it said I'm more than five miles from it.

Get raja puri it's not that rare but my favorite. Perfect size trees like 8 foot max, good cold hardiness, really good tasting small fruit.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Root rot cure
« on: February 10, 2023, 07:31:27 PM »
For potted plants poke bigger holes in the bottom of the pot. Fill the lower 10% of the pot, the bottom with rocks. Medium and big rocks all different sizes. It will make the pot heavier to move but keeps it from sogging out. Put potting soil on the top 90%. Let the plant get plenty of light which helps it breathe and release water. Let the dirt dry out between watering because citrus doesn't like soggy roots as you can see.

Or if no rocks add about 10% sand. But if you do both a lot of the sand will eventually settle at the bottom cancelling out some of the good from rocks but would still work but one or the other might be the best use of resources.

They pollinate themselves for the most part but the net holes are big enough for air pollen etc to flow freely but small enough to keep the bugs out which is why you need one designed for greening protection and can't just make any type of net around it. Though I guess a really fine mesh with good air flow would probably work.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 10b - best snacking fruits for kids
« on: February 06, 2023, 11:40:05 AM »
Blackberry jam fruit, not sure about zone

They grow anywhere in the eastern united states. But even though we have native blackberries in Florida the domestic southern ones were bred around Alabama and less tropical places. They do better outside of Florida even though they grow here.

Sugar bell will stay relatively healthy and producing with greening but there will be some loss of vigor. Not as tough as poncirus. So it's better to leave the netting on. The one in my dad's yard the leaves look a little light, like it needs fertilizer but it has fertilizer. Growing and normal so there's slight damage. The other trees planted at the same time are half dead or small and weak. It's definitely better than most. But the swingle which is really old super dark leaves ultra healthy. Same with sour orange. They are totally unaffected. Sugar bell is slightly effected but not too badly

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Florida Buyer Beware - Publix Citrus
« on: February 04, 2023, 09:05:12 PM »
California fruit is usually dry whereas Florida squirts juice. Florida citrus usually made into juice and Cali stuff sold as fruit. But the Florida juice often sucks now. Though I do like the less sweet juice sometimes because I like to cut back on sugar. The greening makes them less sweet but they mix some sweet with it and it's good. Florida natural now mixes concentrated Mexican juice it was all Florida. Used to be one of the best juices on the market. It's disgusting now undrinkable. Weird though some high priced Florida stuff is still good. But I have been getting garbage citrus from all locations due to citrus greening.

But years ago I bought an "ugly fruit" at Publix. They sometimes buy people's stuff from their backyard. Well it wasn't ugli fruit with a tm. Just looked like it some kind of sour tasting hybrid which they charged way too much like over a dollar for one fruit. After that I don't trust citrus at Publix. They buy anything without trying it first.

Transgenetic is the answer?

This would be the easy way but the public is against it. There is one gene for pierce tolerance in Vitus arizonica grape. They cross bred it each time testing for the gene then verify pierce tolerance until they got plants that are 1.5% arizonica but pierce tolerant. It took them 20 years. I guess they earned the patent on that one. Could have just inserted the gene but there's regulations or no one wants to buy transgenic.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Shine Muscat
« on: February 03, 2023, 10:29:24 PM »
Based on my experience with other cuttings I get very few to root which is a big reason I got seeds. Some will grow on the top without rooting then die. The sad thing is Florida has ideal conditions for rooting high humidity and temps in the 80s is ideal. So not sure why I suck at it. But seeds have been fun for me but they take three months of cold to come up. Though seeds left over from last year came up with a lot less chill time.

cuttings I get usually don't root. But other people seem to root them no problem. Those big grapes are mostly genetics but with any grapes if you cut the clusters in half you get less grapes but the existing ones will be bigger. They will put more energy into existing ones. Usually get better stronger flavor too. I believe in Asia they do this which is one factor in the high price. Less grapes produced but better flavor and size.

Many American grapes and hybrids taste better than store grapes. Like I said these are just American hybrids bred for larger size. The zehnder grapes and other hybrids like lake emerald taste amazing. Muench is a good one too.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Gold nugget self destruction
« on: February 03, 2023, 07:48:27 PM »
In the wild citrus usually don't fruit until it's a big tree after five to seven years. So it's good to pick some fruit off when green because this amount of fruit will drain energy on the plant.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Shine Muscat
« on: February 03, 2023, 06:46:38 PM »
Pierce is bacteria not fungus my bad. Most commercial grapes are hermaphrodites (self fertile) so they breed with themselves. The seeds are highly inbred and really weak and slow growing as a result. Once in a while one might be vigorous enough to grow but they lose vigour. Once you cross that inbred plant with another plant it will be healthy and vigorous again.

With a hermaphrodite x female seeds are 50% herm 50% female. Male parents only exist in the wild or as root stock since they don't get grapes and only produce pollen people don't typically grow them but they produce 2/3 male 1/3 female which you see in wild grapes. So if you grow from seed it might be female and need a pollinator. They don't grow true to seed but they are pretty similar to the parents. With hybrids you get a lot more variation though.

Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Shine Muscat
« on: February 03, 2023, 06:35:43 PM »
Asian grapes originated in Missouri as lubrusca vinifers hybrids. In Asia they bred them for larger size. Essentially the flavor is of American grapes.

Pierce disease which is fungus spread by a bug similar to citrus greening eventually kills southern grapes. A cold winter will kill pierce and the bugs that spread it so not an issue north of the mason Dixon line. There is no cure only planting native grapes that tolerate pierce. Then you have fungus from the high humidity.

The best grapes for Florida are zehnder hybrids z86, cab zehn, and dunstans dream are the main ones. These are 3-6% muscadine crossed with other natives like aestavalis and selectively bred for many generations. Zehnder grew them in south Carolina with no spray. They will be damaged by fungus and could benefit from spray but they will survive. The flavor and wine is outstanding from these grapes.

To a lesser extent taris burgundy. I have a bunch of crosses from these grapes I have been selecting for toughness. As a whole coastal south Florida will be a struggle to grow grapes more of a novelty as the humidity is around 100% and too much fungus not enough of a winter for dormancy. Central and northern Florida these varieties will grow really well.

Razzmatazz is a muscadine hybrid that will do well in Florida and bear year round. Fruit is only average ok though. I will unload some of my stuff later in the year. My seedlings just came up so they need time to get big and ship and they die back in shipping and look bad on arrival but will grow back once planted. I also root some of my better crosses but they are in dormancy now.

Besides those Suwannee and stover are pretty good. Again spray recommended but will survive with a lot of damage with no spray. Grafted on native root stock they do better. They are complex hybrids with Florida native grapes like aestavalis. Dunstan 370 is good.

Blanc du Boise and Daytona have great fruit but very disease prone and nearly impossible to grow without constant spray. Same for Victoria red.

Nothing grows well under an oak. The oak roots suck up all the nutrients. Those citrus are likely root stock citrus like sour orange which do great.

I found wild oranges that are slightly sour or very slight poncirus taste but still edible growing disease free and healthy. I took seeds and have two babies growing. It fits the description of the best orange poncirus hybrid forget the name but supposedly decent fruit. Sugar bell does ok not perfect but good enough. Netting it will keep it disease free until it gets too big for the net (the ones specially sold for greening). I never considered citrus high maintenance prior to greening being an issue. Maybe some neem oil once in a while.

Root stock oranges like swingle grow really well with no disease but the fruit isn't worth eating though with a little cross breeding could be good maybe cross with sugar bell. Lemons are supposed to resist greening so meyer lemon on a good root stock should last for many years before greening gets it.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Honey Pomelo seedlings
« on: February 02, 2023, 02:06:05 PM »
Those bilobed leaves look the same as the wild orange I found. It is not the best tasting but decent to eat with only a hint of poncirus in the fruit but the plant seems disease free and immune to greening. The pummello above could have cross pollinated with root stock. if it was something like swingle and only 1/4 poncirus it might be decent to eat but not great like the orange I found.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Honey Pomelo seedlings
« on: January 29, 2023, 04:28:22 PM »
If it's a seedless variety with seeds most likely it is cross pollinated with something.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Lime graft to myer lemon?
« on: January 27, 2023, 08:22:05 PM »
I don't think it's citron.

3/4 lemon 1/8 grapefruit (or less likely pommelo), 1/8 tangerine seems consistent with the flavor, appearance etc.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 10b - best snacking fruits for kids
« on: January 24, 2023, 07:26:19 PM »
Standard sugar cane will grow wild here and tolerate the sandy or alkaline soil. Compost and fertilizer will let it grow faster. The sand doesn't hold water so it would be dry in dry season though.

Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: 10b - best snacking fruits for kids
« on: January 23, 2023, 08:01:05 PM »
Zone 10? Red banana though box it in somehow so it can't spread too much (like now around it, put on side of house or some barrier). Slowly over time they spread and eventually every where years later. I never saw honey suckle in Florida.

Florida is the drug smuggling capital of the USA. Most people living here aren't aware. There's a lot of smuggling via boat and plane and murders related to it and a high rate of drug usage. But in terms of getting your car broken into or mugged it's rare. It's more high level crime where usually you won't notice. I really don't care much about victimless crimes. Though the murder rate is swept under the rug. There's even been a number of serial killers besides the gang stuff.

Few people here know this is outlaw motorcycle club territory along with new York mob retired here along with new York cops.

They never bother me. It's the welfare junkies and low iq teenagers that vandalize property and steal stuff. Cincinnati is an epidemic of car break ins and muggings. That's what I mean by real ghetto. Getting mugged, getting your car broken into, people who don't cut their grass and throw trash on the lawn. There's not a lot of places like that in south Florida. Fort Myers is the only area I know of with a noticable amount of ghetto.

Temperate Fruit Discussion / Re: Heritage raspberry zone 9?
« on: January 22, 2023, 05:23:49 PM »
I don't know about the heritage variety. We had raspberries and blackberries in Florida. Raspberry does worse than blackberry and some varieties are more heat tolerant than others but generally speaking they survive heat and will even produce berries but they grow better in cooler climates. I doubt that it would die.

There's no ghetto in port Charlotte. They refuse to build affordable housing and tear down trailer parks and bann new ones. The so called ghetto here is the older part of town with freshly painted houses manicured lawns where a house can be found for $180,000 instead of $300,000. There's a lot of drugs in the area but not any serious crime but that describes most of the country maybe slightly more drugs than usual.

Sarasota is the same even the so called ghetto is nice and expensive there's not any real ghetto. Fort Myersband arcadia do have actual dumpy areas and a small section of punta Gorda is affordable housing which is still expensive but a bit dumpy due to the people. As far as I know Naples is the same there isn't any real ghetto. It's just a poorer part of town. Us low wages workers have to live somewhere and the problem is a lack of affordable housing. What little there is demand far outstrips supply and the county is trying to tear down those areas too.

What happens is we just have a massive homeless population due to lack of affordable housing and a worker shortage but at least crime is relatively low other than drugs.

Citrus General Discussion / Re: Does this tree have citrus greening?
« on: January 22, 2023, 02:34:10 PM »
Florida is Jurassic Park type of insect swarms but I have seldom seen them on citrus other than that one caterpillar that feeds on citrus which you can easily kill by hand. Citrus greening is the only real issue which there is no cure other than the netting they invented. Sometimes black mildew on leaves from humidity which doesn't harm the plant other than blocking sunlight needs cleaned off. I did get tiny slugs eating sap in my container citrus up north. The ants would probably kill them in Florida.

Citrus is super easy to grow everyone is over complicating it.

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