Shine Muscat

[Jaboticaba45]

Nice Job Ryan!

Thank you! I hope to spread this one around to others once I can start propagating this. Hopefully the other cuttings in will follow this one.

[pinkturtle]

Great, hope the roots are developing.

[elouicious]

Do you have any other grapes in the greenhouse?

Barring pest problems I wouldn't think you would have trouble

[Jaboticaba45]

Do you have any other grapes in the greenhouse?

Barring pest problems I wouldn't think you would have trouble

No other grapes at all. Hoping things go well for this one! I don't really have much experience with grapes other than some muscadines, scuppernongs, and a few table grapes. But I have done some research, just haven't really put it into practice with say starting up the trellises lol.

[elouicious]

They need a good trellis, and like some clay in the soil

not very picky otherwise

[Jaboticaba45]

Anyone else got theirs to root? Mine already has flower buds 😂

[pinkturtle]

No signs of any for me yet.  Maybe I need to buy Scions from you later.

[Pau]

When time comes i would like scions too please

[Okvid]

I have one that is pushing out right now, but I don't have roots yet.

[1rainman]

Asian grapes originated in Missouri as lubrusca vinifers hybrids. In Asia they bred them for larger size. Essentially the flavor is of American grapes.

Pierce disease which is fungus spread by a bug similar to citrus greening eventually kills southern grapes. A cold winter will kill pierce and the bugs that spread it so not an issue north of the mason Dixon line. There is no cure only planting native grapes that tolerate pierce. Then you have fungus from the high humidity.

The best grapes for Florida are zehnder hybrids z86, cab zehn, and dunstans dream are the main ones. These are 3-6% muscadine crossed with other natives like aestavalis and selectively bred for many generations. Zehnder grew them in south Carolina with no spray. They will be damaged by fungus and could benefit from spray but they will survive. The flavor and wine is outstanding from these grapes.

To a lesser extent taris burgundy. I have a bunch of crosses from these grapes I have been selecting for toughness. As a whole coastal south Florida will be a struggle to grow grapes more of a novelty as the humidity is around 100% and too much fungus not enough of a winter for dormancy. Central and northern Florida these varieties will grow really well.

Razzmatazz is a muscadine hybrid that will do well in Florida and bear year round. Fruit is only average ok though. I will unload some of my stuff later in the year. My seedlings just came up so they need time to get big and ship and they die back in shipping and look bad on arrival but will grow back once planted. I also root some of my better crosses but they are in dormancy now.

Besides those Suwannee and stover are pretty good. Again spray recommended but will survive with a lot of damage with no spray. Grafted on native root stock they do better. They are complex hybrids with Florida native grapes like aestavalis. Dunstan 370 is good.

Blanc du Boise and Daytona have great fruit but very disease prone and nearly impossible to grow without constant spray. Same for Victoria red.

[1rainman]

Pierce is bacteria not fungus my bad. Most commercial grapes are hermaphrodites (self fertile) so they breed with themselves. The seeds are highly inbred and really weak and slow growing as a result. Once in a while one might be vigorous enough to grow but they lose vigour. Once you cross that inbred plant with another plant it will be healthy and vigorous again.

With a hermaphrodite x female seeds are 50% herm 50% female. Male parents only exist in the wild or as root stock since they don't get grapes and only produce pollen people don't typically grow them but they produce 2/3 male 1/3 female which you see in wild grapes. So if you grow from seed it might be female and need a pollinator. They don't grow true to seed but they are pretty similar to the parents. With hybrids you get a lot more variation though.

[JCorte]

Anyone else got theirs to root? Mine already has flower buds 😂

Nice job Ryan!  Looks great!  I would cut those flower buds off.

Janet

[1rainman]

Based on my experience with other cuttings I get very few to root which is a big reason I got seeds. Some will grow on the top without rooting then die. The sad thing is Florida has ideal conditions for rooting high humidity and temps in the 80s is ideal. So not sure why I suck at it. But seeds have been fun for me but they take three months of cold to come up. Though seeds left over from last year came up with a lot less chill time.

cuttings I get usually don't root. But other people seem to root them no problem. Those big grapes are mostly genetics but with any grapes if you cut the clusters in half you get less grapes but the existing ones will be bigger. They will put more energy into existing ones. Usually get better stronger flavor too. I believe in Asia they do this which is one factor in the high price. Less grapes produced but better flavor and size.

Many American grapes and hybrids taste better than store grapes. Like I said these are just American hybrids bred for larger size. The zehnder grapes and other hybrids like lake emerald taste amazing. Muench is a good one too.

[Jaboticaba45]

Thanks everyone! Janet, yes I plan on removing those buds. I hope to get some for sale to public asap. 1rainman, looks like you are correct about that. Here’s a link from wikepedia.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shine_Muscat
Note that giberellic acid is used to make them seedless and have a thinner skin.
Also they do thin the bunches out to get bigger ones. Seems like they have regulations to get each grape above 30grams. Which is labor intensive and why they can be expensive.

[Jaboticaba45]

Well ladies and gentlemen,
It is with great sadness with what I'm going to say. Shine muscat doesn't taste like it used to. Let me explain -
I had the opportunity to eat these in Korea 2019. They were expensive, but really good. Everyone agreed it was worth the money. But now days, the taste and overall flavor has went down. In fact, my mom found a YT video talking about this too. In the comments section everyone was agreeing that they don't taste right. Why? Well because of higher demand, the quality has been going down. Not only that, but the prices of grapes have been too. Which can be seen as good, but in reality it's not worth buying them now. The taste is just not the same. So yes, you will be able to find these more easily in US, but not peak flavor. This is where we come in...I can't wait till these grapes start fruiting. We have the ability to grow these for ourselves in the US. Can't wait to see what stems from this. Just there is a code to be cracked. Getting the grapes to look like the high tier ones require thinning of fruit, proper fertilization, and treatments to keep them seedless.

Also anyone else get their cuttings to grow? or is it only me? Don't give up yet; some of mine are just starting to push in the greenhouse.
Best,
Ryan

[1rainman]

Wild grapes and home grown hybrids taste better. I think not fertilizing as much and getting lower yields may be key. Every domestic fruit is just water and sugar minimum flavor because they are bred for larger size and the most production then fertilized for maximum yield. Flavor antioxidants etc are low whether it's bananas or grapes or whatever.

Try muench. It's a similar American grape from Missouri with good flavor. There is the joy grape from Arkansas seedless with American flavors. Dunstans dream. I'd like to see someone grow those and do a taste comparison.

They spray almost all seedless grapes with that acid. Otherwise even seedless stuff may have a seed remnant. Natural grapes are the best though.

[pinkturtle]

I totally agreed with Ryan.  Sunshine Muscat need a lot care to produce high quality fruits.  Everything included in Ryan posted and need to bag it and no direct sun on the fruits. 

I saw one out of my six cuttings is showing some new grow.  I am very happy and exciting to see more of my cuttings pushing new grow

[Jaboticaba45]

I totally agreed with Ryan.  Sunshine Muscat need a lot care to produce high quality fruits.  Everything included in Ryan posted and need to bag it and no direct sun on the fruits. 

I saw one out of my six cuttings is showing some new grow.  I am very happy and exciting to see more of my cuttings pushing new grow

Al,
glad to see yours growing too.
I'll order some of those fruit bags they use. Just looks to be another couple years until potential to fruit.

[Okvid]

[PDXIan]

HI Everyone, I would love to get cuttings, or plants from anyone that has them.

[Jaboticaba45]

HI Everyone, I would love to get cuttings, or plants from anyone that has them.

I'll have a few for sale in the summer. Not much though... I'm going to plant most of them out.

[Gardening10m]

 I want to try this grapevine, shine muscat,  anyone have some cuttings or plants to sell or share, please send me a message for the cost.

[Passigi]

Hi,
Also adding onto this thread to see if there’s anyone selling shine muscat cuttings, or know of someone who is, thanks!

[Jaboticaba45]

I am pleased to say that I will be able to offer more plants this fall.
I can't accept any pre orders though as I don't know my final stock.
Just stay tuned as I will be dropping them around end of september?


Has anyone else been able to make more?

[SouthBayHapaJoe]

My cutting from Ryan took a little time but is now really putting on some nice new growth. Really excited about this cultivar.