Author Topic: White Sapote Questions  (Read 710 times)

HalcyonJon

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White Sapote Questions
« on: September 22, 2022, 02:55:10 PM »
I'm originally from southern California, and absolutely love white sapotes.  I'm also stubborn enough to not jump on the pawpaw train (a local favorite that grows wild), and am determined to figure out how to maintain a grafted tree indoors. 

Because of its dwarf(ish) size, I believe my best bet is to acquire a grafted Suebelle tree, and add selected scions as I'm able to.  From reading previous threads, it seems there are two varietals in the market called "Suebelle."  I'm not sure which is the "true" Suebelle, but I know one has fuzzy leaves and the other doesn't.  Can anyone tell me the difference between the two, and which one is more preferable to acquire?  Is (either) Suebelle considered a good variety to graft scions onto, in general?  Can I get a decent fruit yield with only one tree?

Also, I'm curious if anyone thinks I should abandon the quest to fruit a tree indoors, as I prefer to listen to people who know more than me (despite my stubbornness).  My understanding is that it can be done in a 10 or 15 gallon pot (maybe even 7?), but I want to make sure it wont take up an entire room in my house, or require me to build a large greenhouse in my yard (which I'm hoping to do next year anyway, lol).

Lastly, I've identified some of the "improved" varieties I'd like to get scions for, if anyone has them.  Skipper, Sunset, and Fairhaven are my short list.  I'm also open to suggestions for those on the cutting edge of cultivar knowledge :)  Thanks in advance everyone!  Cheers.

BonsaiBeast

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2022, 03:36:59 PM »
I dont know how it would grow in ur location. But if you do need a grafted suebelle (with the fuzzy underside) let me know, I have some trees for offer.

Pau

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2022, 06:55:51 PM »
I bought a vernon and added subelle, seed grown cutting (fremont), younghans gold, redlands.

I also attempted to add other varieties but it didnt take: supersweet, lemon gold, and i forgot the rest.

My tree grows strong outdoor and fruits nicely. The flavor of the different types seems similar and only slightly different, can only tell when eaten side by side. They all taste creamy and delicious!



brian

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2022, 09:07:16 PM »
I have a grafted SueBelle in a ~15gal pot, it is starting to grow more vigorously so I'm not sure how well I am able to keep it under control, but it flowers well (no fruit set yet, I expect this next spring).  I keep it in my greenhouse in winter, but I see no reason why you couldn't overwinter indoors in a sunny window and keep it outside when temperatures are above freezing.  It has been trouble free, I recommend you give it a shot

Jack, Nipomo

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2022, 11:13:22 PM »
I have 4 grafted white sapotes that are dwarfed and at 15 years old or more, no larger than 8 ft, one is only 5 ft.  All produce normal sized fruit.  I have posted this before:  Using casimiroa tetrameria (yellow sapote) for rootstock, the white sapote (casimiroa edulis) is dwarfed and remains so.  Each is planted in the ground, but would be perfect size for a 15 gallon container.  I also have a collection of white sapote trees that tend to be very large.  I don't think one in a container would be happy due to their size. My Suebelle white sapote is about 10 ft tall, and has fuzz on the bottom of its leaves potentially indicating hybridization with a yellow sapote.  All of the yellow sapotes have the fuzz, and are sometimes called fuzzy leafed sapote. My yellow sapote on its own roots is about 15 ft tall, my Vernon white sapote is a giant 30 ft or more and equally as broad.  For yards with limited space, dwarfing might be a solution to be able to enjoy this excellent fruit.

Nick C

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2022, 12:18:00 AM »
I'm growing a "vernon" white sapote tree in 7A so its doable. Tree is in around a 30 gallon pot and stays in the 3.5-4' range.








SD Dan

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2022, 01:40:16 PM »
You're getting a bunch of good replies re: white sapotes so I'll just add that you should totally jump on the paw paw train along with growing white sapote. I lived in Baltimore/DC for 10 years and I really enjoyed them. Since it's native to the region you can mostly plant it and forget about it and in a few years you'll have delicious fruit without much work!

bryan

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2022, 08:57:36 PM »
I have 4 grafted white sapotes that are dwarfed and at 15 years old or more, no larger than 8 ft, one is only 5 ft.  All produce normal sized fruit.  I have posted this before:  Using casimiroa tetrameria (yellow sapote) for rootstock, the white sapote (casimiroa edulis) is dwarfed and remains so.  Each is planted in the ground, but would be perfect size for a 15 gallon container.  I also have a collection of white sapote trees that tend to be very large.  I don't think one in a container would be happy due to their size. My Suebelle white sapote is about 10 ft tall, and has fuzz on the bottom of its leaves potentially indicating hybridization with a yellow sapote.  All of the yellow sapotes have the fuzz, and are sometimes called fuzzy leafed sapote. My yellow sapote on its own roots is about 15 ft tall, my Vernon white sapote is a giant 30 ft or more and equally as broad.  For yards with limited space, dwarfing might be a solution to be able to enjoy this excellent fruit.
So I live in 9b and my white sapote takes little damage in the winter. If I use yellow sapote rootstock (canistel), which has less cold tolerance is that going to be an issue? I like this idea, but not sure if it is suitable for 9B.
Thanks.

Galatians522

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2022, 10:40:52 PM »
I have 4 grafted white sapotes that are dwarfed and at 15 years old or more, no larger than 8 ft, one is only 5 ft.  All produce normal sized fruit.  I have posted this before:  Using casimiroa tetrameria (yellow sapote) for rootstock, the white sapote (casimiroa edulis) is dwarfed and remains so.  Each is planted in the ground, but would be perfect size for a 15 gallon container.  I also have a collection of white sapote trees that tend to be very large.  I don't think one in a container would be happy due to their size. My Suebelle white sapote is about 10 ft tall, and has fuzz on the bottom of its leaves potentially indicating hybridization with a yellow sapote.  All of the yellow sapotes have the fuzz, and are sometimes called fuzzy leafed sapote. My yellow sapote on its own roots is about 15 ft tall, my Vernon white sapote is a giant 30 ft or more and equally as broad.  For yards with limited space, dwarfing might be a solution to be able to enjoy this excellent fruit.
So I live in 9b and my white sapote takes little damage in the winter. If I use yellow sapote rootstock (canistel), which has less cold tolerance is that going to be an issue? I like this idea, but not sure if it is suitable for 9B.
Thanks.

I think they were talking about
casimiroa tetrameria (yellow/wooly sapote). It should be similar in cold tollerence to white sapote (casimiroa edulis). Common names make things confusing.

bryan

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2022, 02:19:06 PM »
I have 4 grafted white sapotes that are dwarfed and at 15 years old or more, no larger than 8 ft, one is only 5 ft.  All produce normal sized fruit.  I have posted this before:  Using casimiroa tetrameria (yellow sapote) for rootstock, the white sapote (casimiroa edulis) is dwarfed and remains so.  Each is planted in the ground, but would be perfect size for a 15 gallon container.  I also have a collection of white sapote trees that tend to be very large.  I don't think one in a container would be happy due to their size. My Suebelle white sapote is about 10 ft tall, and has fuzz on the bottom of its leaves potentially indicating hybridization with a yellow sapote.  All of the yellow sapotes have the fuzz, and are sometimes called fuzzy leafed sapote. My yellow sapote on its own roots is about 15 ft tall, my Vernon white sapote is a giant 30 ft or more and equally as broad.  For yards with limited space, dwarfing might be a solution to be able to enjoy this excellent fruit.
So I live in 9b and my white sapote takes little damage in the winter. If I use yellow sapote rootstock (canistel), which has less cold tolerance is that going to be an issue? I like this idea, but not sure if it is suitable for 9B.
Thanks.

I think they were talking about
casimiroa tetrameria (yellow/wooly sapote). It should be similar in cold tollerence to white sapote (casimiroa edulis). Common names make things confusing.

Thanks for clarifying Galatians522, they helps.

HalcyonJon

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2022, 02:19:48 PM »
Wow - thanks for all the great replies everyone!  I recently acquired some true Suebelle fruit in the mail from a grower in SoCal, and I must say it's not my favorite when compared to other varieties despite it's advantages.  If I had to guess, I'd say it comes across more like a hybrid of casimiroa tetrameria and casimiroa edulis.  In the best interest of space (and my spouse), I think I'm going to shoot the moon for a grafted Sunset tree from Exotica, if they still have em.  And I'll need to build a greenhouse before I find one regardless, lol.  Thanks again for the help everyone, lots of great feedback here!

Cheers,
Jon

Oolie

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2022, 08:36:45 PM »
If I had to guess, I'd say it comes across more like a hybrid of casimiroa tetrameria and casimiroa edulis. 
Seems likely, as my selfed subelle seedling looks almost exclusively edulis, though my subelle grafts to it obviously contain some tetrameria.

If you can't locate the grafted tree of your choice, it's an easy tree to graft once established. That said, I multigrafted mine to allow variety and seasonal extension for a single tree.

I've sampled numerous seedlings, as well as fruit from grafted trees of various levels of maturity. It appears that the fruit does improve significantly with graft age (like almost all fruit trees), and that there is a great variety in tastes, textures, and flavors depending on cultivar and other factors.

Probably not as big a variance as in things like cherimoya, though I've sampled far more of those than Casmiroa.

I'm giving pawpaw a try in Alabama, we'll see if it's as low care as Casmiroa (my favorite Casmiroa characteristic).

Bush2Beach

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Re: White Sapote Questions
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2022, 10:35:41 PM »
Make sure they’re grafted? Seems like most tree’s at Exotica are not. I would be surprised if Steve’s Sunset variety was grafted from his mother tree. I think they are seedlings of the mother tree. If your looking to save space, Nettie and Cuccio bo the fruit prolifically as 10-15 ft tree’s, alot of white sapotes don’t until 20 ft plus. 
Wow - thanks for all the great replies everyone!  I recently acquired some true Suebelle fruit in the mail from a grower in SoCal, and I must say it's not my favorite when compared to other varieties despite it's advantages.  If I had to guess, I'd say it comes across more like a hybrid of casimiroa tetrameria and casimiroa edulis.  In the best interest of space (and my spouse), I think I'm going to shoot the moon for a grafted Sunset tree from Exotica, if they still have em.  And I'll need to build a greenhouse before I find one regardless, lol.  Thanks again for the help everyone, lots of great feedback here!

Cheers,
Jon

 

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