Author Topic: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds  (Read 561 times)

TropicalPioneers

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Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« on: November 15, 2022, 01:39:44 AM »
Does anyone know a treatment method to kill off the fungus

Finca La Isla

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2022, 08:43:34 AM »
I routinely germinate cupuasu seeds and never have a problem and Iím not careful either. Frequently the seeds have pulp on them.
If I were having issues I would try EM or some other lactobacillis culture. Long ago I used a fungicide for that purpose known as captan.
Peter

tru

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2022, 10:54:06 AM »
pack them in really small baggies like seeds in the mail come in, and use 5.5 pH water.

Wait until you see roots in the bag, and you're good to go! I've had really great success using this method and I think the low pH is what makes it possible so bad bacteria can't grow. best of luck! I know there's a lot of people that also run into this problem

roblack

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2022, 12:09:55 PM »
Sprinkling cinnamon powder can help.

Vegan Potato Man

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2022, 12:34:46 PM »
pack them in really small baggies like seeds in the mail come in, and use 5.5 pH water.

Wait until you see roots in the bag, and you're good to go! I've had really great success using this method and I think the low pH is what makes it possible so bad bacteria can't grow. best of luck! I know there's a lot of people that also run into this problem

I'm not a microbiologist by any means, but I'm pretty sure most plant pathogens wouldn't be bothered much by a pH of 5.5, FWIW.

AFAIK a lot of bad bacteria tolerate pH 4+, and if you go that low you're asking for a lot of other problems.

pH is logarithmic, so 5 is 10x more acidic than 6, and 4 is 100x more acidic than 6.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 12:41:20 PM by Vegan Potato Man »

tru

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2022, 04:05:32 PM »
pack them in really small baggies like seeds in the mail come in, and use 5.5 pH water.

Wait until you see roots in the bag, and you're good to go! I've had really great success using this method and I think the low pH is what makes it possible so bad bacteria can't grow. best of luck! I know there's a lot of people that also run into this problem

I'm not a microbiologist by any means, but I'm pretty sure most plant pathogens wouldn't be bothered much by a pH of 5.5, FWIW.

AFAIK a lot of bad bacteria tolerate pH 4+, and if you go that low you're asking for a lot of other problems.

pH is logarithmic, so 5 is 10x more acidic than 6, and 4 is 100x more acidic than 6.

I was typing this in a rush but you're completely right! I'm not sure what I read, or where I read it, but I thought that low pH stopped mold and other contaminants. Maybe my success is not dependent on the water, but I've noticed when growing microgreens that I run into a LOT more mold problems with water from the tap compared to water from the tap + pH down

pagnr

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2022, 04:22:50 PM »
Damping off is caused by pathogens, usually fungi.
It is often promoted by conditions that allow the fungi to thrive.
Some methods to reduce it are known such as
Using sterile pot media, avoid soil in the mix.
Water so the surface of the pot dries between watering.
Tall narrow pots are better at surface draining than seedling punnet flats.
Avoid dense fine pot mix. increasing the Air Filled Porosity of pot mix ( the pore space ) allows more air around seeds/seedlings and slows fungi
For tiny seed, watering once and sealing in a plastic bag may help ( the plastic bag method ). The mix should stay just damp to touch.
Coir peat is useful as it has high AFP as well as water holding capacity in a good balance.
Coarse sand about brown sugar grade particles can also be useful.
For most seed germination I use a 67% coarse sand or grit / 33 % coir peat, with the addition of 5% zeolite and maybe some perlite or similar for more air.
Some bog peat addition is known to be helpful to these type of seed raising mixes.
Bog Peat and Sphagnum have some inhibitory factors on Fungi. Bog Peat is slightly acid and fairly sterile, but fine grades may be too dense on their own and pH too low.
It is often difficult to balance the high temperature requirements to germinate tropical seed, with drying and draining of the mix, leading to very frequent watering and hence constant surface wetness. Tall pots may help as the seed will be in the damp free drained surface, with a wetter area well below the seed helping slow the pot drying out.
Another factor is don't overdo the pre mix fertiliser, or fertiliser additions on small plants. It promotes weak sappy growth prone to fungi.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2022, 04:43:59 PM by pagnr »

Finca La Isla

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2022, 06:43:14 PM »
Different seeds call for distinct practices. I donít know how much of this advice is pertinent to cupuasu which is the same as cacao.  The seed canít get even a little bit dry.
Thereís something to say for starting plants in a medium that somewhat resembles the soil in which they will eventually be planted in.
I have a fruit tree nursery and we offer cupuasu trees as well as cacao and pataxte. I appreciate also that my conditions are different from many others but, if anything, I am likely to have more pathogens around my ultra tropical farm than most locales.
Peter

pagnr

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2022, 03:11:10 AM »
Many tropical fruit species seed interact with the animals that eat the fruit, go thru the digestive system, get coated with feacal matter, which may be protective of pathogens or dissolve the seed coat.  Many seeds fall and germinate in the surface leaf litter, or on the bare soil in the rain, without any covering.
Being outside the tropics, I found it often easy to germinate seed in a hot summer climate, but difficult to get many thru the first or second winter in cold wet pot mixes.
On the other hands friends in the tropics seem to plant seeds in bags of loamy soil, in the rain, under a shade tree.
One friend threw Avocado seeds out his kitchen window into the rainforest to grow his next lot of trees, and he was never running out of Avocado fruit.

tru

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2022, 09:52:09 AM »
Many tropical fruit species seed interact with the animals that eat the fruit, go thru the digestive system, get coated with feacal matter, which may be protective of pathogens or dissolve the seed coat.  Many seeds fall and germinate in the surface leaf litter, or on the bare soil in the rain, without any covering.
Being outside the tropics, I found it often easy to germinate seed in a hot summer climate, but difficult to get many thru the first or second winter in cold wet pot mixes.
On the other hands friends in the tropics seem to plant seeds in bags of loamy soil, in the rain, under a shade tree.
One friend threw Avocado seeds out his kitchen window into the rainforest to grow his next lot of trees, and he was never running out of Avocado fruit.

While I agree that nature will find a way, there is also something to be said about the survivor bias, being you'll never know how many dead seeds it took before one sprouted. Your friends in the tropics know what they're doing imo, I don't know what I did wrong before but my germ rates are way higher using that method

Or have yall tried the float method? sounds basic asf but has worked perfectly on everything I've tried so far.

Just fill up a jar with water to the brim, move it to your final location (in the dark, etc), and carefully put the seed on top of the water so it floats. If it sinks, pull it out, dry it, try again. You can leave it like that for weeks

Vegan Potato Man

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2022, 11:40:24 AM »
Many tropical fruit species seed interact with the animals that eat the fruit, go thru the digestive system, get coated with feacal matter, which may be protective of pathogens or dissolve the seed coat.  Many seeds fall and germinate in the surface leaf litter, or on the bare soil in the rain, without any covering.
Being outside the tropics, I found it often easy to germinate seed in a hot summer climate, but difficult to get many thru the first or second winter in cold wet pot mixes.
On the other hands friends in the tropics seem to plant seeds in bags of loamy soil, in the rain, under a shade tree.
One friend threw Avocado seeds out his kitchen window into the rainforest to grow his next lot of trees, and he was never running out of Avocado fruit.

While I agree that nature will find a way, there is also something to be said about the survivor bias, being you'll never know how many dead seeds it took before one sprouted. Your friends in the tropics know what they're doing imo, I don't know what I did wrong before but my germ rates are way higher using that method

Or have yall tried the float method? sounds basic asf but has worked perfectly on everything I've tried so far.

Just fill up a jar with water to the brim, move it to your final location (in the dark, etc), and carefully put the seed on top of the water so it floats. If it sinks, pull it out, dry it, try again. You can leave it like that for weeks

Seeds germinated in non aerated water will have a lack of oxygen. The float method isn't 100% accurate for viability testing depending on the seed, not sure if you were suggesting it for that.

Also, roots that develop in water are maladapted for growing in soil and may cause the plant stress upon transition.

tru

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2022, 01:06:39 PM »
idk, it sounds good on paper but in practice the seeds donít seem to care, 100% germ rate with 8 cacao seeds floating and 100% 7 in bags

I could see how leaving for weeks and weeks would mess up how the roots grow, but at that point you have bigger problems. And yeah not for viability, I plant everything no matter if it floats or not

floating lets it receive oxygen without needing to aerate, im talking baby roots not inches and inches of growth. I like the bags more though, I donít wanna worry about changing water

TropicalPioneers

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2022, 01:27:03 AM »
Thank you for the information everyone

Daintree

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2022, 09:24:25 AM »
I always keep a spray bottle with diluted physan (also called consan) on hand. Works great for damping off and other fungal problems when sprouting seeds.

Carolyn

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2022, 11:27:31 PM »
Damping off pathogens thrive in cool, moist, and dark conditions. Make sure you have some good light, a heating mat, and well aerated seedling starting mix. I also use a small fan to circulate air in the room.

You should also disinfect any tools or pots with bleach prior to using them. Just my 2 cents. I had major issues starting seeds prior to all these things. Now, I don't see damping off and my seedlings thrive. I put the seedlings under a strong light as soon as they have sprouted (not too close or they'll get crispy lol). LEDS work great for this since they don't put off much heat

cassowary

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2022, 06:20:07 PM »
The source of your seeds might not be the best. I think this is often overlooked by some people.

For me there is no problem with cupuassu seeds, same experience as Peter.

Peace

For seed and plant swap/barter enter ďtropical seedsĒ @ https://publicnote.com/

TropicalPioneers

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Re: Having a really big issue with damping off with cupuacu seeds
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2023, 08:09:28 PM »
I definitely try about the spray when I get more seeds and I have added strong LED grow lights but I still have the issue with ventilation since I canít seem to find a small fan for it

 

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