Is there any citrus still worth growing in south FL?

[bulldawg305]

bulldawg305 - those trees do look pretty healthy. Have you eaten any fruit from them?

Yes, all the oranges I have tried have been sour and have used them as a marinade for cooking. However the grapefruit are the best I have had. They are full of seeds but very large, juicy with a pale flesh. They taste sweet and sour with minimal sulfur taste that most others have. The variety I found online that closest resembles these traits is Duncan.

OK so the Duncans are in good shape. But the oranges - do you think they are sour because they've come up from below the graft, or maybe planted from seed years ago?

No these are just sour-oranges seedlings in the wild, not an old citrus grove. It's impressive that when the rains come they survive several inches of standing water no problem.

[pagnr]

Kumquats and fingerlimes do best from what I know.

If I remember correctly, they are closely related in the Citrus family.

[1rainman]

Nothing grows well under an oak. The oak roots suck up all the nutrients. Those citrus are likely root stock citrus like sour orange which do great.

I found wild oranges that are slightly sour or very slight poncirus taste but still edible growing disease free and healthy. I took seeds and have two babies growing. It fits the description of the best orange poncirus hybrid forget the name but supposedly decent fruit. Sugar bell does ok not perfect but good enough. Netting it will keep it disease free until it gets too big for the net (the ones specially sold for greening). I never considered citrus high maintenance prior to greening being an issue. Maybe some neem oil once in a while.

Root stock oranges like swingle grow really well with no disease but the fruit isn't worth eating though with a little cross breeding could be good maybe cross with sugar bell. Lemons are supposed to resist greening so meyer lemon on a good root stock should last for many years before greening gets it.

[Timbogrow]

I replaced the citrus with a citrus mango 😆 🤣 😂.....orange sherbet. Good luck competing with that flavor sour orange.

[FloridaManDan]

Oaks are not native here in Australia, and not that common except in parks in cities. I am more inland and not sure I have seen any here.
Any advice as to what species are used for greening protection ?
Think the experiment was with Live Oak, anybody growing Citrus with other species ?
Spanish Cork Oak may grow here, or maybe American Oak species "Out of the South and Texas Too" ?

In my vicinity (Southeast FL), 99% of oaks I have seen are Southern Live Oak, Laurel Oak, Water Oak, and hybrids of them all. Not a recommendation for or against using any particular oak species to try and curb citrus greening. Should just choose the best one for your growing zone/climate.
Aside from that, I personally believe almost every oak species is gorgeous and should be planted for that reason alone, as long as they don't cause a nuisance. My favorites throughout the US are Post Oak, Southern Live Oak, Southern Red Oak, Swamp White Oak, and Swamp Chestnut Oak.

I replaced the citrus with a citrus mango 😆 🤣 😂.....orange sherbet. Good luck competing with that flavor sour orange.

As much as I love my yuzu and finger lime, they'd be replaced in a minute with a Lemon Zest mango if there was a dwarf version that would survive the same size pot.

[SaltwaterTx]

Id really love to grow more wampee. I’ve heard they get greening bad. Might be one worth the trouble though? Have some superior varieties but can’t find a source for good seed.

[canito 17]

Transgenetic is the answer?

[kapps]

I have just about given up on citrus. I have a Dancy Tangerine and a couple local sour lemon seedlings growing on the edge of my property under my neighbors oak tree. Leaf miners and the typical citrus pests have found them but they grew strong last year. They will be my last if I find any greening.

A local citrus grove in northern Vero recently took out their trees and planted mangoes. It seems like mango is the new citrus and I wouldn’t be surprised if there is a mango virus that shoots through Florida in another 20 years.

[1rainman]

Transgenetic is the answer?

This would be the easy way but the public is against it. There is one gene for pierce tolerance in Vitus arizonica grape. They cross bred it each time testing for the gene then verify pierce tolerance until they got plants that are 1.5% arizonica but pierce tolerant. It took them 20 years. I guess they earned the patent on that one. Could have just inserted the gene but there's regulations or no one wants to buy transgenic.

[pagnr]

Transgenetic is the answer?

If you could identify the greening resistant genes and pop them into a Navel Orange etc without changing other fruit characters that could work.
Otherwise you could hybridise with resistant Citrus, but most likely the fruit would be slightly unusual.
If you did enough hybrids, maybe 2nd generation, you should get something that would pass as an orange or for juice purposes.
Otherwise change to new Citrus types, greening resistant types like Finger Lime.
That could work, replacing your morning " OJ " with a glass of "FL", except that Florida is also FL, co CA Citrus Farmers might get upset with that ?
Also here in Australia it would be "AuFL", except that our football league is the AFL, and it also sounds a bit like awful.

For Sports Fans here are some great AFL moments of 2022
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7yHReFqJchttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA7yHReFqJc

[achetadomestica]

Supposedly if you grow a citrus under an oak canopy with oak leaf mulch you are more likely to have less problems. I am experimenting with this currently in a neighboring wooded lot. I know I see a lot of citrus in pine farms under the canopy and they appear from the road to be doing quite well.

I don't see how the Oak would keep the psyllid from laying it's eggs on the citrus?
I have heard if you plant a guava tree close by the citrus the psyllid that spreads the greening
prefers the guava leaves?

[mangoba]

In my opinion the citrus industry has no future in florida unless we take measures to destroy all the plants for a decade or more so that MAYBE there is a future industry. They don't care about that though with the amount they sell their only in it for $ and don't give 2 hoots what happens or how resistant they are to disease. My 2 verigated lemons I have 3 yrs now just started flowering and now seems the nematodes are devouring the roots and the canopies are thinning out, looking like crap. Too much work to replace trees every few years to keep the disease alive. I'm never buying another stupid citrus tree anyway. Mango is king anyway so don't waste your 3 years to have you plant eaten up above and below ground.

Are you doing anything special for the nematodes to not bother the mangoes?

[Timbogrow]

In my opinion the citrus industry has no future in florida unless we take measures to destroy all the plants for a decade or more so that MAYBE there is a future industry. They don't care about that though with the amount they sell their only in it for $ and don't give 2 hoots what happens or how resistant they are to disease. My 2 verigated lemons I have 3 yrs now just started flowering and now seems the nematodes are devouring the roots and the canopies are thinning out, looking like crap. Too much work to replace trees every few years to keep the disease alive. I'm never buying another stupid citrus tree anyway. Mango is king anyway so don't waste your 3 years to have you plant eaten up above and below ground.

Are you doing anything special for the nematodes to not bother the mangoes?

Absolutely not, lol. They do great with little effort. Like i said previously they attrackt every pest south florida has to offer . And  is a full time losing battle plus the fruit isn't very good anyway. I can buy about 12 types of citrus from the grocery store at any time of the year. I can buy 0 varieties of mango at the store that are good.

[Timbogrow]

Supposedly if you grow a citrus under an oak canopy with oak leaf mulch you are more likely to have less problems. I am experimenting with this currently in a neighboring wooded lot. I know I see a lot of citrus in pine farms under the canopy and they appear from the road to be doing quite well.

I don't see how the Oak would keep the psyllid from laying it's eggs on the citrus?
I have heard if you plant a guava tree close by the citrus the psyllid that spreads the greening
prefers the guava leaves?

Had guava right next to my lemons from reading the same as you. Didn't do shit but make a cloud of aphids e ery time you brushed the leaves.

[achetadomestica]

Supposedly if you grow a citrus under an oak canopy with oak leaf mulch you are more likely to have less problems. I am experimenting with this currently in a neighboring wooded lot. I know I see a lot of citrus in pine farms under the canopy and they appear from the road to be doing quite well.

I don't see how the Oak would keep the psyllid from laying it's eggs on the citrus?
I have heard if you plant a guava tree close by the citrus the psyllid that spreads the greening
prefers the guava leaves?

Had guava right next to my lemons from reading the same as you. Didn't do shit but make a cloud of aphids e ery time you brushed the leaves.

I read that 90% of the citrus in Florida has greening.
I wonder where the 10% are that don't? probably in greenhouses

[Timbogrow]

https://crec.ifas.ufl.edu/home-citrus/
It's a good read, but I'm done with citrus. Kaolin clay $$$ and reflective mulch??? Aluminum sheet metal cut with hole in 1/2 pie pieces $$$$$.....I would love it to have a cure and a future longer than 2-3 years. Mine was a seedling tree so it's more sad.

[pagnr]

I don't see how the Oak would keep the psyllid from laying it's eggs on the citrus?

It was discussed on the Citrus General Discussion.
Something from the oak helps the greening affected Citrus recover and reduces symptoms.
Oak leaf tea is used as a treatment in the trials.
Similar to the Finger Lime peptide, it imparts resistance / recovery.

[nullzero]

I have a Sugar Belle it's near oak trees in Florida. It appears to be healthy even though it only gets rain and is seldomly fertilzed. The Xie Shan and Yuzu did not do well, yuzu died and Xie Shan does not look as healthy.

[Timbogrow]

I don't see how the Oak would keep the psyllid from laying it's eggs on the citrus?[/b

It was discussed on the Citrus General Discussion.
Something from the oak helps the greening affected Citrus recover and reduces symptoms.
Oak leaf tea is used as a treatment in the trials.
Similar to the Finger Lime peptide, it imparts resistance / recovery.

You could grow 3 maybe 4 full size mango trees instead of a full size oak with a sad citrus under it.

[Calusa]

I have a Sugar Belle it's near oak trees in Florida. It appears to be healthy even though it only gets rain and is seldomly fertilzed. The Xie Shan and Yuzu did not do well, yuzu died and Xie Shan does not look as healthy.

Suger Belle has the ability to repair or bypass the HLB-damaged channels that nutrients use to travel from root to leaf. So even though the tree is infected it is engineered to thrive and produce normal fruit. Or so they say. I have a Sugar Bell too, a very young one that was planted this past Wednesday. I'll keep it covered with citrus netting for a couple of years then see how things go uncovered. I don't have any oak trees but I can get all I want from neighbors and use them for mulch.

[Timbogrow]

The free fertilizer guy here in town claims his fertilizer will revive citrus greened trees. You just pay for the time and stop other fertilizer for a year before his application. The Oak leaves are probably what he uses since there in such abundance around here.

[1rainman]

Sugar bell will stay relatively healthy and producing with greening but there will be some loss of vigor. Not as tough as poncirus. So it's better to leave the netting on. The one in my dad's yard the leaves look a little light, like it needs fertilizer but it has fertilizer. Growing and normal so there's slight damage. The other trees planted at the same time are half dead or small and weak. It's definitely better than most. But the swingle which is really old super dark leaves ultra healthy. Same with sour orange. They are totally unaffected. Sugar bell is slightly effected but not too badly

[Calusa]

I may be the proponent of netting that skhan was referencing. I grow my citrus in containers under a protective netting. For sure it’s not aesthetically pleasing, but if you can get over that, citrus is not that hard in S. Florida. The one thing I have noticed with the netting is that the trees are more prone to fungal issues as the netting gets wet and retains moisture and restricts airflow. Here’s a pic of my Excalibur red lime with some fruit.

With that netting in place how is pollination done?

[1rainman]

They pollinate themselves for the most part but the net holes are big enough for air pollen etc to flow freely but small enough to keep the bugs out which is why you need one designed for greening protection and can't just make any type of net around it. Though I guess a really fine mesh with good air flow would probably work.

[Calusa]

They pollinate themselves for the most part but the net holes are big enough for air pollen etc to flow freely but small enough to keep the bugs out which is why you need one designed for greening protection and can't just make any type of net around it. Though I guess a really fine mesh with good air flow would probably work.

Oh OK thanks. Yes I have nets specifically designed to prevent HLB psyllids from getting in.

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