White sapote cultivars

[snhabegger]

I just wanted to revive the discussion of white sapotes from a bit back.  It basically ended with Oscar talking about how a superior white sapote is an awesome fruit -- but neither he nor anyone else got into which varieties are best.  I'm going to try and find a couple of grafted trees -- and I'd love to know what kinds I should really look for (particularly for a planting site that has an extensive dry season).

[gunnar429]

I asked harry a while back and he said the best are younghan's gold.  They sometimes have a bitter aftertaste (that is undetectable to about half the population sampled) and are variable year to year if I recall.  But, as I understand it, a good WS is a top-tier fruit.

I am growing Redlands and younghan's gold.  Those are the only 2 available down near Miami.  That is for FL though....I am sure the CA guys grow other types like suebelle.

[fyliu]

The commonly sold variety is suebelle. It's a yellow skinned variety with small fruits larger than a mandarin but smaller than an orange. The advantage is that it turns yellow on ripening so the less experienced home grower can see the difference. On average about half the seeds in a fruit is aborted so flesh to seed ratio is good.

There are two types of skin: yellow and green. It refers to the color of the ripe fruit. Green-skinned ones are sweeter.

The next most talked about variety is the McDill. It is a large green fruit. Fruit clusters on a tree looks impressive, like green softballs. Seeds are also large and most are full seeds. Some people feel it's too sweet but there are sweeter varieties still.

Some varieties have a bitter taste to the skin. I normally peel off the skin before eating.

[snhabegger]

One thing Oscar mentioned in the earlier thread is that the white sapote has not been successful commercially, because the best-tasting cultivars are too fragile.  I think that I'd like to try and grow a superior, non-commercial one more than one that's found in stores.  If the only banana I'd ever eaten was the one they sell in North America, I wouldn't care much for bananas . . .

[marklee]

Nick, there are a lot better tasting varieties than McDill, Suebelle, etc. I have a variety that has a butterscotch taste, and others that are more complex. An old timer here in San Diego county has a few acres of 20 or more varieties. The scion wood has been distributed to a lot of people in California.

[shaneatwell]

Nick, there are a lot better tasting varieties than McDill, Suebelle, etc. I have a variety that has a butterscotch taste, and others that are more complex. An old timer here in San Diego county has a few acres of 20 or more varieties. The scion wood has been distributed to a lot of people in California.

Nice.

[snhabegger]

Can you gentlemen tell me the names of these cultivars?  I would be most grateful!

I've written to Pine Island Nursery to see if their white sapotes are grafted and of what type, but they haven't written back yet.

[simon_grow]

Suebelle tastes great but is a smaller fruit and the Leroy I tried at Marks house was outstanding. Sorry I don't have any additional information on them.
Simon

[snhabegger]

That right there is good, thanks.  I can use that to poke around nursery sites, see what they say.

[MangCau]

How about Vernon? Thinking about getting one at  Home Depot.

[ScottR]

Vernon is and excellent variety, Chestnut (supposed butterscotch flavor), Pike, Rainbow, Cuccio,Suebelle,Fiesta, Malibu #1& 3, I have Pike,Vernon,Suebelle, Rainbow seedling fruiting for me so far out of many,many varieties! Above all are winners to me! Good luck in your search!

[Californiatropicals]

There are a ton of  White sapote cultivars here in california. I know a few people who have over a dozen varieties on one tree. I don't have a lot of experience between yellow and green skinned varieties, I thought i had read previously that yellow skinned were tastier, but I could have it mixed up. My young white sapote has fruited twice (still small fruit) and I've tried mail order fruit, and locally grown ( at a friend's house) fruit. The fruit is really interesting, Like a complex mix of flavor including some mango aftertaste.  I want to multigraft my tree to have different varieties. So far, I have suebelle, and walton on it. Walton doesn't bloom as readily but has already set a fruit.

[gunnar429]

Can you gentlemen tell me the names of these cultivars?  I would be most grateful!

I've written to Pine Island Nursery to see if their white sapotes are grafted and of what type, but they haven't written back yet.

they have grafted younghan's gold and grafted redlands

[snhabegger]

You know what's kind of strange about this fruit, from my perspective?  (And frustrating too.)  From what I can tell, the white sapote is basically a minor fruit -- Julia Morton doesn't give any great shakes to it, you don't see fanatics discussing it like mangoes, it's not shipped, etc.  But, it seems to have a real truck-load of cultivars, which substantial variation between them; but at the same time, it's not important enough for fruit nurseries to really go into much detail about it.  Not only do most of them not offer much information about what cultivars they have, but most of them seem to have different varieties, and none of them are the ones that people are listing here as superior . . .

For me, it's tricky -- I probably have one shot at getting these to Thailand, and so I need to choose good varieties, that are able to pollinate each other.  It's a bit of a crap-shoot; if I had to do the same thing with apples, there are many, many types I just don't care for, and a few that I love.

[gunnar429]

i feel you....you have to think about what works best for your climate....I would bet thailand is closer to fl or hawaii than CA, but that's just a guess....i can't plant lots of stuff that forum members rave about (avocado threads for example are completely different for CA growers and FL growers).  Oscar is usually good at assessing climates around the world and what would grow well.

[Californiatropicals]

You know what's kind of strange about this fruit, from my perspective?  (And frustrating too.)  From what I can tell, the white sapote is basically a minor fruit -- Julia Morton doesn't give any great shakes to it, you don't see fanatics discussing it like mangoes, it's not shipped, etc.  But, it seems to have a real truck-load of cultivars, which substantial variation between them; but at the same time, it's not important enough for fruit nurseries to really go into much detail about it.  Not only do most of them not offer much information about what cultivars they have, but most of them seem to have different varieties, and none of them are the ones that people are listing here as superior . . .

For me, it's tricky -- I probably have one shot at getting these to Thailand, and so I need to choose good varieties, that are able to pollinate each other.  It's a bit of a crap-shoot; if I had to do the same thing with apples, there are many, many types I just don't care for, and a few that I love.

White sapote are ahrd to ship. Even hard fruit, if banged around will bruise and rot in the spot smacked. It's a good fruit, but quite delicate.  As you mention about fruit. There isn't a whole lot of attention paid to most tropical/subtropical fruits, but especially so white sapote. most people don't know what cherimoya, white sapote, mamey, or even what loquats or guavas are.  There is such a plethora that is being under utilized. I like white sapote. I find them having different flavors at different stages of ripeness.  I cannot wait until my tree gets to an age and size where it bears scrupulous amounts of fruit!

[fruitlovers]

I agree with Jeff. You're going about it the wrong way around. You need to find out what will do best in your climate, not what people think are the best tasting cultivars. Remember that white sapote is not really a tropical fruit, more of a sub tropical. There are a few cultivars that do ok in the tropics, and those are the ones you should get. The cultivars that do well in Hawaii or Florida are much more likely to fruit for you well than ones that are favored in California. The most popular white sapote here in Hawaii is McDill.  Pick up the cultivars sold in S. Florida. You could also plant seeds from your trees once they start fruiting and maybe get one that's even more suited and adapted to your climate.

[snhabegger]

I agree with Jeff. You're going about it the wrong way around. You need to find out what will do best in your climate, not what people think are the best tasting cultivars. Remember that white sapote is not really a tropical fruit, more of a sub tropical. There are a few cultivars that do ok in the tropics, and those are the ones you should get. The cultivars that do well in Hawaii or Florida are much more likely to fruit for you well than ones that are favored in California. The most popular white sapote here in Hawaii is McDill.  Pick up the cultivars sold in S. Florida. You could also plant seeds from your trees once they start fruiting and maybe get one that's even more suited and adapted to your climate.

Fair enough, that's probably the best approach -- but I would like to avoid the cultivars you mention in an other thread as being less worth consuming (since those were in California, this jibes with your advice).  Where are Suebelle and Leroy from?

Also, do you know if there are cultivars from southern Mexico that might be more likely to grow in Thailand?  There must be, even if they aren't named or established -- it's weird that the white sapote is so diverse in the U.S., where it's peripheral in every way.  Someone must have put a fair bit of work into it in the past.

[marklee]

The  "Leroy" is from a tree in Vista in San Diego county, the original tree is pretty huge. The grower (Leroy) is real nice and doesn't get out anymore, and has some real nice large other fruit trees. The  fruit is medium size, turns yellow when ripe and has that butterscotch flavor.

[JF]

White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is  a 40' by my office and it's been prune!

[Luisport]

White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is  a 40' by my office and it's been prune!

My god it's a monster... 

[marklee]

White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is  a 40' by my office and it's been prune!

Frank did you get a chance to try that sapote I left with you guys? It is from a lone tree in a field by the side of the road, so probably a seedling.

[JF]

White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is  a 40' by my office and it's been prune!

Frank did you get a chance to try that sapote I left with you guys? It is from a lone tree in a field by the side of the road, so probably a seedling.

Yes Mark that was excellent! It's funny when you drive by the alleys in a Hispanic neighborhoods you find these trees growing wild and the majority of them are of excellent quality.

These trees are super vigorous beware when you prune them they will bounce back in 6 months.

[Californiatropicals]

Keep in mind the fact that any cultivar is worth trying in the tropics, or elsewhere. White sapote is easy enough to graft, in fact, it's one of the easier. I just gotta say this, If  I limited myself to growing what I and other people originally thought would grow well in my climate, I would have stuck to stone fruits, grapes, and berries...I would have never  known I could fruit bananas, cherimoya, guava, white sapote and would have never known that things like Rollinia deliciosa, black sapote, green sapote, custard apple, mango and a few other tropicals are pretty much unphased by my winter (we'll see about friuit in the next couple of years  ) Meanwhile, part of the fun of having a garden is the experimentation!!  You'll never truly know until you try.

[Californiatropicals]

White Sapote grow like weeds and are everywhere in SoCal. I had a so ca dwarfish suebelle tha was hogging up my back yard....a waste of space for me fruit is excellent but I'll just pick some up from friends. Here is  a 40' by my office and it's been prune!

My god it's a monster... 

Thanks for the pic! I can see how WS would grow very vigorously if not grafted. I've grown a few seedlings that grow straight up! Grafting seems to dwarf them considerably.  Part of me wants to let a seedling grow and become a massive tree like the on your pictured! The other part wouldn't want to be cleaning up that much fallen fruit, or dealing with animals attracted to the fruit. lol