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Messages - brian

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1
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Fruit & Spice Is Really Nice
« on: June 24, 2022, 09:53:40 PM »
I really enjoyed it when I went there for the first time earlier this year.  It was amazing to see the full grown versions of all the trees I am trying to grow in containers and keep small. 

I got to try "giant lau lau" which is another syzgium and it was very interesting, like a juicy rose flavored marshmallow, would definitely eat again.

Disappointing to hear about the seashore mangosteen and white sapote.  I have always heard that white sapote is good, mine flowers but hasn't held fruit yet.  I am curious what others opinions on seashore mangosteen are, haven't tried it yet and my seedlings are a ways from flowering

2
Coffee loves shade?  I have always had mine in full sun and they look very happy.

I agree cacao and garcinias seem to like shade.

3
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is a black sapote tree worth having?
« on: June 20, 2022, 11:50:34 PM »
Certainly possible another tree improves fruit set, I got five fruits on its first year out of maybe thirty flowers

4
Tropical Fruit Discussion / Re: Is a black sapote tree worth having?
« on: June 20, 2022, 11:37:55 PM »
I grew a black sapote from seedling and it fruited on its own in a few years, definitely does not need another tree to set fruit.  I like it a lot but I could see why people might not like it as the flavor is mild and the ripe black fruit is off-putting to some.  It tastes nothing like normal persimmon, they aren't really comparable in my opinion.


5
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Fukushu vs. Meiwa
« on: June 20, 2022, 02:02:43 PM »
I think everybody must try both, I prefer fukushu but I could see why others migjt prefer meiwa.  And nordmann is excellent also. 

6
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Lemon variety
« on: June 19, 2022, 11:45:48 AM »
Meyer, if you consider that a lemon.

I am not aware of any true lemons with thin skin.  If you want a lot of juice per fruit you could grow a ponderosa  ;D

7
Citrus General Discussion / Re: flowers but no fruit
« on: June 17, 2022, 11:16:46 PM »
It might be the lighting in your picture, but your tree looks to have yellowed leaves, and no fresh new leaves, and some twig dieback.  Overall it looks stressed.  I have seen many times with my trees when thet are stressed they will put out tons of flowers but no leaves. 

When is the last time you repotted?  How big is the container compared to the rootball?  I would pull it out of the pot, see if the roots are soggy, see how free draining the soil is, repot if necessary with fresh free draining soil.

Also, if your leaves have little speckles all over you might have spider mites, check online for good examples.

Finally, you might need to increase fertilizer but it looks more like a drainage or mite issue to me. 

8
I've only ever eaten two soursop, but the most recent one was quite soft when I bought it at the market but it tasted fantastic and I assume was perfectly ripe.  The previous soursop I'd eaten was firmer when I bought it and much less sweet, maybe I needed to let it ripen longer.


9
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Wilting on inground Meiwa kumquat
« on: June 16, 2022, 10:51:23 PM »
Check the soil temperature.  I suspect the roots aren't quite warm enough

10
I obtained the fruit from someone else. It’s a very good fruit. Not my favorite though…I’d say achacha and seashore mangosteen are better

thanks for info, looking forward to trying all three of these

11
I'm curious where you got the fruit!  Did you grow one to maturity or buy fruit from somewhere?  I have some imbe seedlings but haven't ever seen the fruit for sale, wondering what they taste like

12
Thanks for reporting back!

13
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus juvenility and internode count
« on: June 11, 2022, 11:05:51 PM »
My four winds cuban shaddock's scion died and it flowered and produced fruit.  the rootstock was a rooted cutting.

I hadn't consideres that the rootstocj itself might be a cutting.  Is that common?  I thought most citrus are hard to root.

14
Not sure, you may have to ask them.  I would guess mamey or green sapote as rootstock but only a guess.  If you find out please let me know :)

15
Tropical Fruit Buy, Sell & Trade / Re: Got some fresh rambutan seeds
« on: June 11, 2022, 10:23:57 PM »
Sure I'll try some.  I got a few to sprout before but most died soon after.  Maybe I will have better luck with more acidic soil

16
Yeah I just got one from them and it arrived in great shape

17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Yuzu coming back from stump
« on: June 10, 2022, 09:17:04 PM »
Very nice!  I assume that being right next to a wall helps keep the heat a bit. 

I have yuzu now but it will stay in my greenhouse in winter.  It gets below 0F regularly in zone6

18
Is the wild/pingan/sarawak type worthwhile?  There must be a reason one is known as the "cultivated type" and the other is not  :)

19
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Citrus juvenility and internode count
« on: June 09, 2022, 10:06:05 PM »
I am becoming skeptical of the node count explanation as I have a few rootstocks that fruited after the scion died, and the rootstocks probably have only a hundred or so nodes though they are a few years old and trunks >1in diameter.  One was a pummelo (likely Cuban Shaddock as it was a FourWindsGrowers tree) and the other I think is c-35 citrange. 

It may be simply that node count is a reflection of tree size. 

20
Not often you see tropical fruit in the news so I thought I'd share this link.  This might be common knowledge to people on this forum, I don't know a lot about marang.  I don't think I've seen the wild type discussed here.

https://www.inverse.com/science/indigenous-knowledge-botany-plant-species

article text:
Quote
Here’s the background — In the gardens of homes in Borneo and the Philippines, it’s not uncommon to find a cultivated sweet fruit tree with thick pulp that bears a strong resemblance to jackfruit and breadfruit. The official scientific name for this tropical plant is A. odoratissimus, though locals refer to the plant by more colloquial names like marang and tarap.

An eighteenth-century Spanish friar who researched botanical plants in the Philippines, Manuel Blanco, was the first person to formally describe A. odoratissimus. Nineteenth-century Italian botanist, Odoardo Beccari, also later described two mature fruit specimens that scientists associate with A. odoratissimus.

Botanists also knew a wild relative of this tree existed that was somewhat different from the domesticated variety, but scientists simply thought it was a variant of the same species. The wild relative contained smaller, less-sweet fruits with thinner pulp and longer hairs.

But unbeknownst to scientists, Indigenous communities in Borneo and the Philippines had long classified A. odoratissimus as not one species, but two clearly separate species, with each fruit tree clearly marked by distinct features.

The Iban people in Sarawak — a Malayasian state in Borneo — recognized the cultivated and wild varieties of the plant as two species: lumok (cultivated) and pingan (wild). The Dusun people of Sabah — another state in Borneo — similarly recognized these plants as separate species known as timadang (cultivated) and tonggom-onggom (wild).

“I think that scientists working on these plants were not aware of the Indigenous classification system, because scientists have not often engaged with that type of knowledge,” Gardner says.

What’s new — In this latest study, Gardner’s team set out to bridge the gap between scientific and Indigenous knowledge. Specifically, they sought to scientifically verify whether these two plants, were, indeed, two genetically distinct species.

Through their research, the scientists confirmed the traditional knowledge of the Dusun and the Iban: The wild pingan is genetically distinct from the domestically cultivated plant lumok.

“The plants have noticeably different fruits which were evident to Indigenous people who were constantly around the plants but were not evident to scientists working largely from preserved specimens,” Gardner says.

With this study, science now formally recognizes and validates pingan as its own separate species. Therefore, pingan needs a scientific name so it can fit with the Linnaean taxonomy, the standard of scientific classification which Swedish botanist Carl Linnaeus established in the 1700s. Gardner’s team settled on A. mutabilis, a reference to the Italian botanist Beccari’s research on the plants in 1885.
Species tree figure from the study
A species “tree” showing the genetic distinction between and geographic origins of the two fruit species, known colloquially to Indigenous people as pingan and lumok. Gardner et al/Current Biology

How they made the discovery — In 2013, the researchers began their fieldwork in the Malaysian state of Sabah in Borneo before expanding to other areas. Gardner was intrigued by the unique plant, A. odoratissimus, especially for its delicious taste.

“We wondered whether there were any genetic differences between cultivated and wild plants,” Gardner says.

But the scientists really honed in on the Indigenous distinctions between the two plants in 2017, when they started collecting plant samples with two Iban field botanists, Jugah anak Tagi and Salang anak Nyegang, who are also co-authors on the study. Their collaborators from the state of Sabah in Borneo, field botanists Postar Miun and Jeisin Jumian, also confirmed that the Indigenous Dusun recognize the plants as two separate species.

“These findings led us to realize the importance of considering indigenous vernacular names in thinking about species limits,” Gardner says.

So, Gardner’s team used genetic sequencing to confirm the Indigenous classification of these two plants. Using field samples collected from Borneo, the scientists deployed a method known as target capture, which enriches DNA and allows researchers to efficiently sequence genes from the plant. This method allowed them to analyze the Italian botanist Beccari’s botanical samples from the 1800s, comparing them to modern plants.

“Because the target regions do not need to be on intact fragments, this method is suitable even for old samples with degraded DNA,” Gardner says.

Using these methods, the scientists were able to confirm there were “two distinct genetic clusters” for lumok and pingan.

Why it matters — The study’s publication is timely as scientists are collaborating more with Indigenous communities on projects ranging from gauging wildfire risk to sucking forever chemicals — chemicals known as “per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances” that linger in the environment for years — out of the ground. With this new study, we can add another area of scientific research where Indigenous knowledge will prove invaluable: species classification.

“People who live close to plants and see them on a daily basis have a different kind of knowledge about them that is different from and complements the way scientists think about plants,” Gardner says.
Tropical rainforest in Sabah, Borneo
The researchers conducted their fieldwork and collected plant samples from the Malaysian state of Sabah in Borneo. Getty

What’s next — To best protect a species, researchers must classify it scientifically within the Linnaean taxonomy. To conserve a species, scientists must name it, otherwise, it won’t appear on the IUCN Red List — the official list of plants and animals that conservation organizations use to classify endangered and threatened species.

But current scientific classification is lacking, and we can partner with Indigenous communities to fill in the gaps in our knowledge of species, the study argues.

“While Linnaean taxonomy offers a broad framework for global comparisons, it may lack the detailed local insights possessed by indigenous peoples,” the study authors write.

By marrying scientific knowledge with Indigenous classifications, we could potentially protect species from extinction. Due to manmade trends like global warming and deforestation, species are disappearing nearly every day. The UN reported in 2019 that one million animal and plant species faced extinction.

Gardner says that scientists are often already working with Indigenous guides when they conduct fieldwork, so it would be a natural next step for researchers and Indigenous communities to collaborate to classify species.

“This kind of collaboration can improve our understanding of biodiversity and can improve recognition of the contributions Indigenous people have been making to science all along,” Gardner says.

21
Ideally you would have a soil that drains fast enough that it is impossible to overwater.  However, I've started adding more peat to the soil of my acid loving plants and I started thinking along the same lines.  In the end I couldn't think of an easy solution and just ensure they get lots of sun to dry up the excess moisture, and I have been using wide, shallow containers that have more surface area to help this along.

22
Citrus General Discussion / Re: leaves cupping / curling
« on: June 09, 2022, 10:15:32 AM »
with updated picture it looks like a kumquat, nagami type or hybrid?

When I have seen this type of cupping it seemed to be caused by the tree becoming too dry at some point and beginning to shrivel.   Even after proper watering the curled leaves never returned to normal, but new leaves grew fine. 

23
Citrus General Discussion / Re: leaves cupping / curling
« on: June 08, 2022, 01:42:11 PM »
what kind of tree is this?  It doesn't look like any citrus I've seen.

Also, yes... it looks like you have a severe scale infestation

24
Citrus General Discussion / Re: Need help with pomelo split
« on: June 08, 2022, 01:40:55 PM »
I recall reading somewhere that calcium deficiency is basically unheard of in citrus

25
Me too, I have been on the lookout for these for years

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