Author Topic: Seedling Mango tree thread  (Read 6268 times)

gnappi

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #75 on: September 02, 2021, 02:19:34 PM »

I have a Julie seedling which I got from the owner of the Julie parent tree. The owner planted the seed in a half wooden staved barrel and with the barrel rotting she pulled the 6' seedling from the ground and snapped the tap root. I got it home in 2012 and gave it a lot of care until it settled in and could survive without the tap root.

1) It is it Polyembryonic or Monoembryonic?
Monoembryonic

2) How long did it take the seedling to fruit(include location)?
After planting ~5 years.

3) Growth habits of the tree, especially compared to maternal parent tree
Medium size, I've never trimmed it. When I picked my seedling up, the parent was 15+ years old and was not much (if any) larger than mine is now.

4) Track production of the tree as it grows
She (Now called Juicy Lucy) produces so much fruit I have to abort some of it to keep branches from snapping. Over the years production increases proportionally to its size

5) If itís a Polyembryonic seedling:
N/A

Notes on the tree and fruit

Fruit: They are smallish  (likely helped due to it bearing so much fruit) , have a typical Julie nose (a few have GINORMOUS noses), the fruits are a vibrant pink and orange when ripe and they are sweet and mostly fiberless.

Tree: Medium growth habit, spreading more than vertical. NO typical fungal issues as with Julie parent.  I have grafted this one several  times, so far all report it to be extremely prolific, and the fruit matches those of my Juicy Lucy.




Regards,

   Gary

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #76 on: September 04, 2021, 01:45:14 AM »
Gary, thanks for the report! The tree sounds awesome and better than the parent because of its disease resistance and productivity. Sounds like you may have already shared some scionsso thatís great news, just in case something happens to the parent tree.

I donít know if you attend any mango tastings but it could be fun to bring some of your fruit to a tasting to see how it stacks up to other varieties and see how others describe the taste. If the fruit is really well received, it could be the next big mango.

Simon

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #77 on: September 05, 2021, 06:10:27 PM »
I soon will know if these sprouts are a result of my first ever polyembryonic Pickering seed or a bunch of sprouts out of a single tap root. I planted the entire husk, so I never looked at the actual seed.

Maybe this has been answered before and I forgot . . . if a monoembryonic mango flower gets pollinated by polyembryonic mango pollen, could the mango produced be polyembryonic?

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2021, 03:45:14 PM »
Fliptop, I donít know the answer to your question but I would guess itís possible.

I cut open the first fruit from my Sweet Tart Seedling #1, which was a runt/nubbin, and it tastes like a Sweet Tart that is over ripe because well, it was over ripe. It would have been best if I cut it open maybe two days ago but I wanted to make sure it was fully ripe. It looked super orange outside and it smelled very sweet.

When I cut it open, it was a very deep orange color but I could tell it was over ripe already. I took a Brix reading and it came out to 19.1% Brix. I definitely over watered this trying to pump up its sisters size. There is another ST Seedling #1 fruit that has the typical ST shape except itís probably 1lbs or more. Anyways, the fruit was over ripe and tasted sweet but completely lacked the Tartness that balances out the sugars. I give this fruit a 5 out of 10 because without the acidity, this mango doesnít taste very good.

There was a bit of Indochinese flavor and at 19% Brix, it was sweet enough but even a slight bit of tartness would have significantly improved its eating quality.

There are more fruit on the tree and Iíll definitely report back on the much larger fruit.

I believe Brad has some fruit on the Sweet start seedlings we planted at his orchard as well.

Simon










mangoba

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #79 on: September 07, 2021, 10:16:32 AM »
Fliptop, I donít know the answer to your question but I would guess itís possible.

I cut open the first fruit from my Sweet Tart Seedling #1, which was a runt/nubbin, and it tastes like a Sweet Tart that is over ripe because well, it was over ripe. It would have been best if I cut it open maybe two days ago but I wanted to make sure it was fully ripe. It looked super orange outside and it smelled very sweet.

When I cut it open, it was a very deep orange color but I could tell it was over ripe already. I took a Brix reading and it came out to 19.1% Brix. I definitely over watered this trying to pump up its sisters size. There is another ST Seedling #1 fruit that has the typical ST shape except itís probably 1lbs or more. Anyways, the fruit was over ripe and tasted sweet but completely lacked the Tartness that balances out the sugars. I give this fruit a 5 out of 10 because without the acidity, this mango doesnít taste very good.

There was a bit of Indochinese flavor and at 19% Brix, it was sweet enough but even a slight bit of tartness would have significantly improved its eating quality.

There are more fruit on the tree and Iíll definitely report back on the much larger fruit.

I believe Brad has some fruit on the Sweet start seedlings we planted at his orchard as well.

Simon










Well done Simon, if it has Indian genes, it's probably best when picked green, don't you think?

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #80 on: September 08, 2021, 02:24:12 PM »
We donít get as much heat in SoCal compared to some other mango growing areas so when picked green, our mangos wonít sweeten up properly. I try to let them hang on the tree as long as possible before picking to maximize the Sugars. My mistake was that I ate it over ripe and with the Sweet Tart variety, at least when grown in SoCal, the longer you let the fruit ripen on the counter, the lower the acid balance.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2021, 11:13:23 AM »
I picked the second and much larger Sweet Tart Seedling #1 about two weeks ago. It was 1lbs 3 oz and I was really hoping it would be decently sweet but it only came in at around 19% Brix. Again, the fruit was over ripened on the counter and the taste was just mediocre. It was mildly sweet but had no acid balance whatsoever so I was not impressed at all.










Today, I walked past the Sweet Tart Seedling #1 tree and noticed that one of the nubbin fruit was starting to go bad on the nose end so I picked it. Instead of letting it ripen on the counter and potentially losing the acidity, I cut it open right away. This fruit was amazing and tastes just like a perfectly ripened true Sweet Tart. It was very sweet with excellent acid balance and perfect indochinese flavor.








It seems like both my Sweet Tart Seedling #1, the more vigorous of the two sprouts, and Sweet Tart Seedling#2, are clones. One or both of them could be zygotic but the flavor is identical to real Sweet Tarts and I canít tell the difference.
Simon

spaugh

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2021, 01:17:15 PM »
Theres a few nice sized sweet tart seedling fruits here that are getting close Simon.  They are green but look like the color is starting to go yellow.
Brad Spaugh

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2021, 02:21:30 PM »
Awesome, let me know when you think theyíre ready and Iíll stop by with the refractometer. Iím guessing theyíll be a Sweet Tart clone but one of these days, we may get lucky with an off type!

Simon

Future

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2021, 06:41:24 PM »
Great updates Simon. And one day, to CA,  Iíll be back...

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #85 on: September 24, 2021, 12:37:59 AM »
Great updates Simon. And one day, to CA,  Iíll be back...

Thanks Future! Itís been a long time since youíve visited. You need to check out Brads awesome orchard, itís paradise over there and itís getting better each year. The seedling mango trees are starting to get established and we will be top working them probably next year but Iíd love to leave a branch or two of each seedling to determine the fruit quality.

Iíve been very impressed with E4 and would love to grow out a bunch of E4 seedlings in the hopes that one day Iíll find an improved E4 seedling. Hit me up next time youíre in town and we can visit Leo also.

Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #86 on: October 06, 2021, 02:12:12 PM »
I picked a few overripe Sweet Tart Seedling #1 nubbin fruit last week and they were spectacular.



Super sweet with an excellent acid balance. Iíve been sharing samples with friends at work and their minds were blown.

Simon

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #87 on: October 06, 2021, 02:17:09 PM »
These Nubbins are consistently sweeter with more concentrated flavor compared to the full sized fruit with viable seeds. Another bonus is that the seed is aborted and ultra thin so more flesh to seed ratio. The negatives are the smaller size and the tendency for nubbin fruit to crack prematurely.









Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #88 on: October 06, 2021, 02:21:53 PM »
Fully formed true Sweet Tart(grafted) next to a Sweet Tart Seedling #1 nubbin. The full sized fruit had a Brix of 26.4%



Simon

fliptop

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #89 on: October 06, 2021, 05:41:46 PM »
The multiple-sprout Pickering seedling(s) I posted above died from the top down. I noticed one day all the leaves were brown. Then the stems. I pulled the plant out of the pot and there was one tap root, so the seed was not polyembryonic.

Johnny Eat Fruit

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #90 on: October 06, 2021, 07:56:32 PM »
Simon,

Your description of the Sweet Tart nubbins is consistent with my eating experience with this fruit.

Just ate a larger standard sweet Tart fruit grown more inland in Alhambra and it was excellent with a viable seed which I am starting to germinate indoors. In contrast, the nubbins I had last month had even a more intense sweeter flavor with excellent complexity. Between the two the nubbins were superior in flavor and sweetness in my opinion. Just more supercharged and condensed. The nubbin sweet-tart fruit was much smaller in size though so there is a trade-off.

Johnny

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #91 on: October 13, 2021, 12:39:57 AM »
Here is a seedling mango tree from one of my friends. The tree is seven years old and about 12 feet tall. It produced one fruit last year but this year, it set around 80 fruit and held onto about 40 fruit. Each fruit weighs over a pound and it is a Fairchild x Mallika.

The fruit is shaped like Mallika and I could smell some Indian Mango type resin. The flavor of this mango is very good! It has the flavor of Mallika when it is very good and the texture is smooth but holds up and doesnít fall apart on you. There are hints of honey in this fruit and the flesh tasted slightly different depending on wether I was eating the slightly riper nose end or the slightly less ripe stem end.
This fruit had a Brix reading of 23.5 and 24.0% Brix.

The less ripe stem end had more Indian resin flavor and according to my palate, it tasted like a combination of Kesar, Banganpalle and Mallika. The nose end had significantly less Indian resin flavor and tasted more like Fairchild.

This fruit has a nice rich depth of flavor that was multi dimensional. I like this fruit better than both Fairchild and Mallika. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
Simon

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #92 on: October 14, 2021, 12:06:44 AM »
I just sampled the second Fairchild x Mallika today and this fruit was even better than the first one. It had a Brix of 25.0% and this fruit had more of that Kesar like sweetness and Indian resin compared to the first fruit.

This selection is definitely better than both its parents combined. Hopefully it grows and tastes just as good when grown elsewhere.

<br /><br /><br /><br />
Simon

JoeP450

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #93 on: October 14, 2021, 09:33:51 AM »
Nice looks pretty too!

-joe

sapote

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #94 on: October 18, 2021, 09:03:14 PM »
Simon,

What's the advantage of cutting the fruit that way, last pic?

Did he only have two mango trees in the yard -- how does he know it is the Hybridge of F x M?

simon_grow

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #95 on: October 19, 2021, 12:56:42 PM »
Sapote, there was a bruise on the fruit so I cut it slanted to avoid the bruising.

The Fairchild was the obvious maternal parent because the fruit/seed came from a Fairchild fruit. The supposed pollen came from an educated guess from the taste of the fruit and also from the shape, color and proximity of the Mallika tree. When you taste the fruit, itís very obvious it came from a Mallika.

My friend gave me samples from various other mango varieties including Mallika but the Mallikas were horrible with uneven ripening and some internal issues.

This variety seriously needs to be trialed in Florida and more locations in SoCal. Mallika can be extremely good but it is one of the most inconsistent variety in terms of fruit quality. Production wise, it is quite reliable but with this new variety, I would recommend everyone plant this new variety instead of Fairchild and Mallika.

Simon

mangoba

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #96 on: October 19, 2021, 04:38:31 PM »
It looks very much like a Madame Francis


sapote

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #97 on: October 19, 2021, 11:44:59 PM »
The Fairchild was the obvious maternal parent because the fruit/seed came from a Fairchild fruit. The supposed pollen came from an educated guess from the taste of the fruit and also from the shape, color and proximity of the Mallika tree. When you taste the fruit, itís very obvious it came from a Mallika.

Simon, this makes sense. I really like the Indian risen perfume.
7 years to hold fruits is unusual long for seedling in SoCal. Any ideas why?

JF

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2021, 05:53:18 PM »
<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

Parson seedling of Juliette much better and coconuty flavor

Eggo

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Re: Seedling Mango tree thread
« Reply #99 on: October 22, 2021, 03:35:40 AM »
Definitely following this thread, I find these discussion on seedlings so interesting.  Simon, I noticed you noted that NDM was one of the more vigorous seedlings.  This seem to support my suspicion.  I had a NDM on turpentine rootstock, in 15 years the tree is no more taller than 6ft. However when grafted onto my ataulfo seedlings the NDM was such a vigorous grower.  I will try to grow out some seedlings and see how they do as rootstocks. Thanks!

 

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