Author Topic: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon  (Read 759 times)

Citradia

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Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« on: July 26, 2021, 09:54:10 PM »
I know plenty will think Iím nuts for asking, but here goes: Iím considering grafting mature poncirus and flying dragon wood onto poncirus or flying dragon rootstock to get small potted specimens that will bloom and fruit when still small. These will be easier to sell than one year old seedlings. Iím assuming grafting PT on FD would work and have a dwarfing affect like any other citrus on FD. But, what would happen if I put FD on PT rootstock? Would the FD scion have a benching effect and die off or what? 

vnomonee

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2021, 01:12:33 AM »
i think it's a good idea. would be good for growing in a pot for us with limited outdoor space, and easier to do controlled pollinations with easily accessible flowers/ protecting the fruits

SoCal2warm

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2021, 01:19:03 AM »
But, what would happen if I put FD on PT rootstock? Would the FD scion have a benching effect and die off or what?
The answer is probably a bit complicated, and a full answer would require a detailed explanation about how and why grafting results in what it does.

I very much doubt grafting FD on PT would result in any more of a dwarfing effect than trying to graft FD on FD.

It might be less heathy because regular PT is faster growing than FD. The rootstock might have some tendency to overgrow the scion, higher likelihood of longer-term incompatibility. But still not terrible since the two are still the same species and would be very compatible in other ways.

It might even grow faster, with regular PT for roots. I don't know. There could be two different competing factors here.

Jibro

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2021, 09:29:00 AM »
If you want small flowering trifoliate, the best option will be Fast Flowering trifoliate from Laaz  I think even if you graft mature poncirus on small PT rootstock it may still take several years until the plant starts flowering. I grafted several different trifoliate on one big PT rootstock last year, the plant is already big but no flowers this year...

Citradia

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2021, 02:34:05 PM »
Thanks yíall. I guess Iíll just try both ways and see what happens.

Walt

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2021, 11:29:17 AM »
Keep us posted.  Please.

Millet

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2021, 11:42:20 AM »
Yes i agree.  Citradia that would be good information to know.  Please keep the forum posted on your results.

Citradia

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2021, 07:35:11 PM »
Will do.

kumin

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2021, 08:08:43 PM »
I would expect grafting height to impact the vigor of the resulting trees, the higher the graft union, the more impact the rootstock should impart.

Citradia

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2021, 09:05:31 AM »
Thanks, Kumin. So, if I put poncirus scion on FD high on trunk I will get a shorter tree ultimately than if I put it lower on the FD trunk?

kumin

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2021, 01:19:51 PM »
Yes, my experience is that the greater height of the rootstock, the greater influence it has on the resulting plant. Reminds me of the account of someone grafting tomatoes onto nightshade roots. The tomatoes were eaten with no ill affect. Another individual copied the procedure and sickened his family. The only apparent difference was that the second person grafted high on the nightshade rootstock, allowing more alkaloids to accumulate in the fruit.

Zitrusgaertner

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2021, 09:47:33 AM »
Okay, but I have never noticed poncirin taste with any high grafted citrus. Anyway I am wondering how much high grafting pushes up frost hardiness.

hardyvermont

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2021, 02:30:34 PM »
Yes, my experience is that the greater height of the rootstock, the greater influence it has on the resulting plant. Reminds me of the account of someone grafting tomatoes onto nightshade roots. The tomatoes were eaten with no ill affect. Another individual copied the procedure and sickened his family. The only apparent difference was that the second person grafted high on the nightshade rootstock, allowing more alkaloids to accumulate in the fruit.
The story I read in a medical detective book was that in one instance bottom nightshade sideshoots were allowed to grow, and in the other, they were removed.  Only the fruits from plants grown with sideshoots were poisonous

I have allowed some poncirus sideshoots to grow below high grafts, hoping it might influence hardiness. 

hardyvermont

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2021, 10:04:14 AM »
https://www.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/6rbm4a/anon_tries_datura/

"Two families had discovered that tomatoes, which have a weak root stock, could be grafted on the strong root stock of Jimson weed, to produce large and tasty tomatoes. When their crops came in, one of the families all got alkaloid poisoning from the datura. The other family did not, with just trace amounts of it in their blood. Why?

It turned out that the healthy family had plucked all the leaves from the datura root stock, and kept plucking them off at intervals. And its leaves are where the alkaloid is made. So they got large and tasty tomatoes and none of the poison."

From Berton Roueche's book, The Medical Detectives
https://booksvooks.com/fullbook/the-medical-detectives-pdf-berton-roueche.html?page=19

pagnr

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2021, 07:43:08 AM »
I can't see any major problems with either combination,  FD on PT or PT on FD.
Virtually all Citrus scions are more vigorous than FD, and most more vigorous than PT. They are overall both successful rootstocks.
There are various strains of PT, some more, some less vigorous, so you could investigate those if you are concerned about rootstock / scion growth differences.
Also small flowered and large flowered strains.
The fast flowering trifoliate, as suggested above may be a good choice.
PT has great autumn colour, some nice oranges and reds. Some seedlings seem to colour and hold colour earlier and longer than others.
Also remember that as a bonus, if the scion dies, your customer will still end up with a Poncirus in the end.

brian

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Re: Grafting poncirus and flying dragon
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2021, 09:07:06 PM »
I started grafting some budwood onto the fast-flowering trifoliate when I ran out of flying dragon rootstock.  I assume it will perform about the same as regular PT - which I am hoping is slower growing than whatever crazy rootstock some of my trees came on that causes them to grow 6ft a year.  I am about to start ripping these vigorous trees out of my greenhouse to replace with FD/PT copies. 

 

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