Author Topic: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread  (Read 59592 times)

Jaboticaba45

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #100 on: March 27, 2022, 08:43:43 PM »



Seeing action…just need a little more time.

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #101 on: March 29, 2022, 12:49:34 AM »
Janet, your trees are looking like they are recovering nicely and their roots must be starting to grieve out, at least for the one with leaves.

Jaboticaba45, those buds look promising.

I know that fruiting our Yangmei still seems very far off but I found this video to entertain us for the time being. The plant doesn’t look very healthy but it’s cool to see a relatively small Yangmei tree in a pot holding fruit.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BrFCWhuQAsQ

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #102 on: March 31, 2022, 01:07:48 PM »
Here's a few videos that I think you guys might like that I found on Youtube from Japan. FYI the third video has auto-translated closed captioning.

https://youtu.be/6KgQqMtJBsQ - Harvesting bayberry [pesticide-free, organic farming] (ヤマモモの収穫【無農薬・有機栽培】)
https://youtu.be/wwjpVlkBIlY - Pruning of bayberry [pesticide-free, organic farming] (ヤマモモの剪定【無農薬・有機栽培】)
https://youtu.be/J2cXg6Qk_Zo - About bayberry! It wouldn't bear fruit without a male strain... It has come to fruition! (ヤマモモについて!オス株がないと実がつかないが...かなり結実しました!)

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #103 on: April 01, 2022, 09:42:31 AM »
Bob_tu, thanks for the links to the videos!

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #104 on: April 02, 2022, 01:39:29 PM »
I set something up today I would like to get you opinion on Simon-

It is crawfish boil season down here and last night we were fortunate to get two giant plates for free-

I was looking at all of the discard and since I am always thinking plants of course composting came to mind but then I was thinking about the RKN and besides treating with nematodes what might be a good way to promote chitin eating bacteria? I remembered this recipe for Liquid Fish Aminos back in the day similar to this one https://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/SA-12.pdf

So i soaked the discard to get rid of any salts and seasoning, crushed it with my boot in a 5gal bucket, mixed in 1:1 sugar and put rocks on top to provide some pressure and give it a bit of anaerobia

I will heavily dilute the final product right before application to any plants but the idea is chitin eating bacteria will flourish in these conditions and then can be used as a liquid fertilizer

Thoughts?

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #105 on: April 02, 2022, 03:19:53 PM »
elouicious, that is beyond my area of expertise.

I don’t like any anaerobic conditions in the rhizosphere and I like my bacteria and fungi to be balanced. That much sugar may tilt the balance towards one or another.

To increase chitinase, I inoculated my soil with red worms. Their droppings have chitinase.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2022, 04:57:43 PM »





“Female” biqi is taking off, maybe will move it outdoors to greenhouse soon. The rest I am unsure of, green all the way to tip of branch but no buds or signs thereof. I wrapped them all in buddy tape to emulate my one success and in doing this will quit with running the humidifier

1/4 is better than 0/4 anyways

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #107 on: April 08, 2022, 09:30:50 PM »
Grafted a Wusu branch and it busted out with a big ol flower raceme!



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Jaboticaba45

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #108 on: April 08, 2022, 09:58:00 PM »
Grafted a Wusu branch and it busted out with a big ol flower raceme!



Nattyfroootz, That’s awesome! I’m glad these grafted trees have the potential to flower soon.
I bet I’ll be the first person to fruit this in TN! Anyone in TN want to make a bet??? ;D



Here’s my black crystal.

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #109 on: April 08, 2022, 11:04:10 PM »
K-rimes, looking good so far. The top growth is an indicator that there may be some new roots starting to grow. When you see the branches start elongating, that’s a more definitive sign that there are new roots growing.

Nate, nice flowers! I did some experimental grafts with scions that were already induced to bloom and the grafts were significantly lower quality than when grafting with scions that were in vegetative mode.

Jaboticaba45, maybe try to plant a few Cerifera, Californica or Pennsylvanica rootstocks around your yard and see if they survive. That way, you don’t have to risk the Yangmei.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2022, 11:27:31 PM »
Here’s a seedling I got from Nate about 9 months ago. When I received it, it was about 3-4 inches tall.




This tree is now 32 inches tall with multiple branches. It survived fine left outside all Winter and easily survived a couple nights of light frost. It also survived todays heat wave of about 95-98F.








Best thing about the seedlings is that there’s no worry about Nematodes. I recently up potted this tree and here’s what the roots look like.








Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #111 on: April 09, 2022, 12:02:15 AM »
I want discuss something here that I’ve been hesitant to bring up.

With all these trees imported from China, we should assume they are all infected with RKN. Wether or not you actually see the galls, it is best to treat your trees as if they do have RKN.

RKN is a Serious issue and I’m absolutely shocked how lightly people are taking this. I’ve spoken with many forum members and many people did not treat their trees even though this last order, and probably all the other orders, had RKN.

RKN is a serious threat to our gardens. Once you get RKN established in your soil, they are difficult if not impossible to completely get rid of them.

They stunt or kill vegetables and can decrease productivity in woody plants.

I’m not telling people not to purchase trees from China but if you do purchase trees from China, treat them for RKN regardless if you see galls or not. Even if there is not a single gall detected out of 500-1000 trees, I would still treat them. RKN is microscopic and they may not have formed galls yet and there can also be RKN eggs.

Nursery owners are well aware of the horrible issues associated with RKN and some states even have restrictions that nurseries that ship plants must grow their plants raised off the ground.

I have a friend that has RKN in their yard and his tomatoes and fig was severely infected. His tomatoes looked horribly stunted and his fig tree was growing a lot slower than it should be. He pulled up one of his tomatoes to show me the roots and it looked like the same galls from the Yangmei trees from the last group buy.

With the popularity of Yangmei, I don’t want RKN spreading in all of our gardens. I’m not saying don’t buy the trees, just please treat your trees just in case. Any soil, water or tools that have come into contact with infected trees should be thoroughly disinfected or discarded in the case of soil.

RKN is absolutely horrible and you may not notice symptoms until many years down the road when the RKN population has thoroughly established and by that time, it’s probably too late to eliminate them. An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

Simon
 

nattyfroootz

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #112 on: April 09, 2022, 12:19:39 AM »
Is it possible that RKN can even be totally eliminated? From my understanding it's practically impossible to eliminate?
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simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #113 on: April 09, 2022, 01:07:35 AM »
In a small yard, it may be possible with repeated treatments with chemicals, wether organic or synthetic, combined with multiple applications with beneficial nematodes. You can also solarize your soil with black plastic but the temps required may kill the shallow roots of plants in the area being treated.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #114 on: April 09, 2022, 09:12:36 AM »
I want discuss something here that I’ve been hesitant to bring up.

With all these trees imported from China, we should assume they are all infected with RKN. Wether or not you actually see the galls, it is best to treat your trees as if they do have RKN.

RKN is a Serious issue and I’m absolutely shocked how lightly people are taking this. I’ve spoken with many forum members and many people did not treat their trees even though this last order, and probably all the other orders, had RKN.

RKN is a serious threat to our gardens. Once you get RKN established in your soil, they are difficult if not impossible to completely get rid of them.

They stunt or kill vegetables and can decrease productivity in woody plants.

I’m not telling people not to purchase trees from China but if you do purchase trees from China, treat them for RKN regardless if you see galls or not. Even if there is not a single gall detected out of 500-1000 trees, I would still treat them. RKN is microscopic and they may not have formed galls yet and there can also be RKN eggs.

Nursery owners are well aware of the horrible issues associated with RKN and some states even have restrictions that nurseries that ship plants must grow their plants raised off the ground.

I have a friend that has RKN in their yard and his tomatoes and fig was severely infected. His tomatoes looked horribly stunted and his fig tree was growing a lot slower than it should be. He pulled up one of his tomatoes to show me the roots and it looked like the same galls from the Yangmei trees from the last group buy.

With the popularity of Yangmei, I don’t want RKN spreading in all of our gardens. I’m not saying don’t buy the trees, just please treat your trees just in case. Any soil, water or tools that have come into contact with infected trees should be thoroughly disinfected or discarded in the case of soil.

RKN is absolutely horrible and you may not notice symptoms until many years down the road when the RKN population has thoroughly established and by that time, it’s probably too late to eliminate them. An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

Simon
Thanks for the info Simon.
I feel like a lot of people in the order didn’t really know the potential of these combined with ignorance or not even knowing they were there. You don’t want to mess with helminths; the bad ones can be scary. I guess it’s worth the extra $50 to buy the Monterey nematode control after all.

JCorte

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #115 on: April 09, 2022, 10:18:37 AM »
Simon,

I totally respect and value your experience and advice and to be honest the decision of whether or not to use chemicals on the Yamgmei has weighed on me.  I already have root knot nematodes in my yard, and in my early days of gardening I used chemicals and beneficial nematodes, but it was a losing battle, let alone it did not benefit the health of my garden. That led me down the rabbit hole of studying soil biology and plant health and have spent a couple of decades learning to create a balance of soil life in the rhizosphere where yes, there are still the ‘bad,’ but they are part of a balance that feeds the ‘good.’  Using a nematicide will not only kill the root knot nematodes, it disrupts the whole balance.  There is always a justification for using chemical toxins on our soils and I am not judging anyone’s choices, but for myself, I have decided not to treat my plants.  Maybe I would make a different choice if it was not already in my yard.  I know I am risking not being able to grow my Yangmei, but I’m willing to accept that as well, as much as I want to.  I make my own potting soil full of live soil microorganisms so we’ll see how it goes.  I have shared pictures of my garden and offer it here as evidence that you can have healthy, abundant plants even with root knot nematodes.
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=45788.msg445927#msg445927

Janet


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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #116 on: April 09, 2022, 10:54:34 AM »
Hello Janet,

Your garden looks beautiful! It doesn’t look like you have high populations of RKN from the health of your trees. RKN is very noticeable if your growing vegetable crops that aren’t on Nematode resistant rootstock.

I was a microbiologist before and used to work for a company that did research on beneficial bacteria and mycorrhizal fungi and if you have a healthy rhizosphere, it can keep your plants relatively healthy.

With the Yangmei plants we received from China, it is so easy to dip the bare root trees in a Nematicide  that it’s just silly not to do it.

For those that already have established RKN in their yards, I understand that it’s not much of an issue unless their are other varieties of RKN that your yard didn’t already have.

If anybody knows they have RKN in their yard, they should disclose it to anyone they share plant material with. RKN is no joke.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #117 on: April 09, 2022, 01:15:26 PM »
Simon,

How do you know if "RKN in their yard" ?

Do the plants/trees have those big knots on the roots, is that how you can tell or do you need to test the soil/plant for it?

Kaz

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #118 on: April 09, 2022, 01:24:03 PM »
Simon,

Currently, I have mine in a garden pots. Would it still be too late to dip the bare roots in Nematicide or can I still do it after the trees establish a solid root system?

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #119 on: April 09, 2022, 02:23:57 PM »
I want discuss something here that I’ve been hesitant to bring up.

With all these trees imported from China, we should assume they are all infected with RKN. Wether or not you actually see the galls, it is best to treat your trees as if they do have RKN.

RKN is a Serious issue and I’m absolutely shocked how lightly people are taking this. I’ve spoken with many forum members and many people did not treat their trees even though this last order, and probably all the other orders, had RKN.

RKN is a serious threat to our gardens. Once you get RKN established in your soil, they are difficult if not impossible to completely get rid of them.

They stunt or kill vegetables and can decrease productivity in woody plants.

I’m not telling people not to purchase trees from China but if you do purchase trees from China, treat them for RKN regardless if you see galls or not. Even if there is not a single gall detected out of 500-1000 trees, I would still treat them. RKN is microscopic and they may not have formed galls yet and there can also be RKN eggs.

Nursery owners are well aware of the horrible issues associated with RKN and some states even have restrictions that nurseries that ship plants must grow their plants raised off the ground.

I have a friend that has RKN in their yard and his tomatoes and fig was severely infected. His tomatoes looked horribly stunted and his fig tree was growing a lot slower than it should be. He pulled up one of his tomatoes to show me the roots and it looked like the same galls from the Yangmei trees from the last group buy.

With the popularity of Yangmei, I don’t want RKN spreading in all of our gardens. I’m not saying don’t buy the trees, just please treat your trees just in case. Any soil, water or tools that have come into contact with infected trees should be thoroughly disinfected or discarded in the case of soil.

RKN is absolutely horrible and you may not notice symptoms until many years down the road when the RKN population has thoroughly established and by that time, it’s probably too late to eliminate them. An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

Simon
Ok, Simon.
What do you think the protocol should be when receiving plants?
For example:
Upon bare rooted plant arrival soak root in dilute solution of B1 root activator for 2 hours. Dispose of soaking solution in Municipal sewer after adding 10% by volume bleach.  Pot plants in pre-moistened soil followed by soil drench of anti-nematode solution making sure to use drip trays to contain overflow. Water as needed until bud break then apply anti-nematode soil drench.   

simon_grow

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #120 on: April 09, 2022, 03:02:59 PM »
Simon,

How do you know if "RKN in their yard" ?

Do the plants/trees have those big knots on the roots, is that how you can tell or do you need to test the soil/plant for it?

Kaz

Usually you can find out if you have it by digging up a dead tree or pulling up a stunted plant and noticing the galls on the roots. The galls can be very noticeable on vegetables like tomatoes and if the soil is heavily infested, it will be extremely difficult to grow vegetables there again unless it’s on Nematode resistant rootstock.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #121 on: April 09, 2022, 03:09:01 PM »
Simon,

Currently, I have mine in a garden pots. Would it still be too late to dip the bare roots in Nematicide or can I still do it after the trees establish a solid root system?

Since your tree is already potted in soil, simply follow the instructions on the container and do a complete drench per instructions.

I’m sure everyone from the previous orders have already planted their trees in pots or the ground so a drench is most appropriate. Don’t bare root the tree again as this additional stress may kill the tree.

Consider the potting soil contaminated and be careful where you place your pot as the soil and runoff water can be a source for cross contamination.

I would recommend multiple inoculations with beneficial nematodes that attack RKN.

I just want to restate that I’m my no means a RKN expert. I’m just doing internet searches and talking with people to gain more knowledge.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #122 on: April 09, 2022, 04:34:45 PM »
Thanks Simon, my yard is clean, don't see any plants or trees with those symptoms. I will treat my yangmei plants as you suggested.

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #123 on: April 09, 2022, 04:50:42 PM »
I want discuss something here that I’ve been hesitant to bring up.

With all these trees imported from China, we should assume they are all infected with RKN. Wether or not you actually see the galls, it is best to treat your trees as if they do have RKN.

RKN is a Serious issue and I’m absolutely shocked how lightly people are taking this. I’ve spoken with many forum members and many people did not treat their trees even though this last order, and probably all the other orders, had RKN.

RKN is a serious threat to our gardens. Once you get RKN established in your soil, they are difficult if not impossible to completely get rid of them.

They stunt or kill vegetables and can decrease productivity in woody plants.

I’m not telling people not to purchase trees from China but if you do purchase trees from China, treat them for RKN regardless if you see galls or not. Even if there is not a single gall detected out of 500-1000 trees, I would still treat them. RKN is microscopic and they may not have formed galls yet and there can also be RKN eggs.

Nursery owners are well aware of the horrible issues associated with RKN and some states even have restrictions that nurseries that ship plants must grow their plants raised off the ground.

I have a friend that has RKN in their yard and his tomatoes and fig was severely infected. His tomatoes looked horribly stunted and his fig tree was growing a lot slower than it should be. He pulled up one of his tomatoes to show me the roots and it looked like the same galls from the Yangmei trees from the last group buy.

With the popularity of Yangmei, I don’t want RKN spreading in all of our gardens. I’m not saying don’t buy the trees, just please treat your trees just in case. Any soil, water or tools that have come into contact with infected trees should be thoroughly disinfected or discarded in the case of soil.

RKN is absolutely horrible and you may not notice symptoms until many years down the road when the RKN population has thoroughly established and by that time, it’s probably too late to eliminate them. An ounce of prevention is worth more than a pound of cure.

Simon
Ok, Simon.
What do you think the protocol should be when receiving plants?
For example:
Upon bare rooted plant arrival soak root in dilute solution of B1 root activator for 2 hours. Dispose of soaking solution in Municipal sewer after adding 10% by volume bleach.  Pot plants in pre-moistened soil followed by soil drench of anti-nematode solution making sure to use drip trays to contain overflow. Water as needed until bud break then apply anti-nematode soil drench.   

That sounds like a very reasonable protocol but I would soak the roots in something like 200-400 ppm mild nutrient solution and for root growth I would use IBA or NAA but the Thiamine won’t hurt.

I would probably soak it for about 2-4 hours minimum and then just dump the soak water on my concrete driveway unless you’re worried that some water might make it to your garden soil at which point I would add bleach to kill the RKN.

Instead of planting and then treating with a nematicide, I would soak in the Nematicide (10 minutes) right after rehydration. Then I would plant and then soak the soil with Nematicide.

If you planted directly into the ground, you may consider repeated applications of the Nematicide per instructions.

After the Nematicide gets washed away, maybe 1-2 months, inoculate with beneficial nematodes that target RKN. I would inoculate with the beneficials every month for 2-3 months.

Simon

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Re: Yangmei (Morella/Myrica rubra) thread
« Reply #124 on: April 09, 2022, 11:02:58 PM »
I'll be honest after hearing about the RKN situation I've given these trees the bare minimum, even considered just tossing them. Even with that said they are still pushing growth lol I've found a 5 gallon californica online so I'm considering grafting. My question now is at what point can I take cuttings from these trees to graft. Can I do it now or do I have to wait for them to fully rebound?