The Tropical Fruit Forum

Hi all,

I am starting a thread to document my Citrus adventures and experiences for all who care to read and also for myself, so all relevant info of my plants will be stored here. Be warned: it will be a long read, I apologize in advance. Any questions, comments, recommendations are welcome, and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about anything.

Last February I was surfing on the web and I accidentally ran into some hardy Citrus, I think it was some yuzu stuff. Then I found Virginia Fruit Grower's hardy Citrus taste tests, I got into his Changsha selections and the next thing I knew, it was late at night. Well, it's been going on pretty much like that ever since.

After a lot of reading I decided to get some plants hoping they would survive in my zone 7 garden. You know, just a few ones for fun's sake. Then I found this forum and began to read about the crosses you guys make and the light went on in my mind: I want to do this! I want to have the excitement of finding out crosses that may work, spotting seedlings with all the expected and unexpected leaf shapes, growing them to cropping trees, evaluating their fruit, hardiness and all. So I carefully selected 4 varieties to cross. Great, let's buy them! Oops, some of them are in the US only. Hm, what to do? Oh, wait a minute, they say Thomasville is nucellar. What does it mean? Long story short, I spent hours every day reading the forum and studies online, checking all available webshops and I soon knew 4 plants wouldn't be enough. Maybe a dozen would do. (Edit: of course not. Not even three dozen.)

So I began to buy trees, get and grow rootstocks, buy grafting tools, ask for material and advice. I owe you guys a big big thank you for all the useful info, seeds, seedlings, budwood, plants, shipping assistance and everything else. Many of you have been very generous to me, and I am really grateful for that.

So I am presenting what I have now, then I will tell you about what else I plan to acquire, finally I will go into details about the breeding directions I aim to follow. My primary goal is breeding but it takes a lot of growing to do some breeding so my growing skills will obviously need to improve.

To be continued...

Hi all,

I recently bought a Star Ruby grapefruit and sowed the seeds just for the sake of it. I have two seedlings and one of them seems to have bifoliate looking leaves:



This is the first time I have germinated grapefruit seeds so I have no experience with them but it looks like a trifoliate hybrid to me. It would be very surprising if any trifoliate variety was grown anywhere near a commercial scale grapefruit plantation. Maybe a rootstock took over a weak or dead scion, began to flower and pollinated some flowers, I don't know. That's my best bet.

Any other ideas?

Hi all,

I'm going to visit Wiener Zitrustage this year.

I would like to hear first hand experiences about the event. As I read, it's possible to buy plants but when I asked the organizers about who would be the sellers, they didn't want to specify.

So do you guys remember any vendors from the last couple years? I'm sure I will enjoy being there but it would be a big plus to find some cool Citrus plants there.

Thanks!

Hi all and Happy Holidays,

I accidentally ran into an article that I found interesting:

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4395/11/12/2441

A tetraploid seedling of Ishizuka Wase was found, then they grew it to fruiting stage and began to evaluate it. On paper, tetraploid should mean more vigor, bigger leaves etc. and most importantly, better hardiness. And this one has fairly fertile pollen which is not common among Satsumas. So I wrote to them and asked them about this plant. I had never heard of Ishizuka Wase before. Much to my surprise, I got a reply this morning:

'・About cold resistance
We have not conducted detailed tests on the cold resistance of this tetraploid, so we cannot answer your question about its cold resistance.
When observing the cultivation of this tetraploid in the field, it grows a little more vigorously than diploids.
As the climate warms, the cultivation area of Satsuma mandarin is moving further and further north in Japan (southern Tohoku region of Japan, latitude about 38°C).
I believe that the tetraploid has the same or even better ability.
Moreover, the quality of the tetraploid is inferior to that of the diploid.

・About ‘Ishizuka Wase’
'Ishizuka Wase' is a bud mutation of 'Okitsu Wase' and is a fairly minor variety.
'Ishizuka Wase' ripens a little earlier than the major Satsuma mandarin varieties 'Miyagawa Wase' and 'Okitsu Wase'.
There is no significant difference in fruit quality between these varieties.

・About breeding
We are not conducting any research other than the crossbreeding experiments presented in the paper. Research has been halted due to various circumstances at our laboratory (cultivation space, costs, etc.).'

Why they didn't test its hardiness is beyond me. But the overly viable pollen is a standout feature. I will write back to them. I hope that plant is still alive. I wonder what has become of its crosses they made. Not that we have any reason to believe this tetraploid Satsuma will ever get to Europe. ☹️

Hi all,

Here is a comparison of 6 different fruits. First off, I want to say a massive thanks to Usirius who sent me some of the fruits he grew and received.
In every case I chose the softest one for testing. This wasn't a good choice for all of them, you will see my edited comment at Poncirus#7. And I had two Poncirus #8 fruits, one of which was used for the test but it's already losing quality. I didn't cut up the other one for a retaste because my refractometer will arrive next week and I want to do a measurement on them all. If the second fruit is any better, I will update the post, and I will add the Brix data as well.
Please note that I'm not experienced at such things. If you have any suggestions how to make this comparison better or more informative, don't hesitate to comment. I still have some fruits left.

So let's start!



Random PT from Germany

Average weight 50g
Brix 12,5
They are all overripe, brown spots. Probably this was the earliest to mature. Floral fragrance, not bad, but cut up its scent is piney bitter.
Not too much juice from hand squeeze. Juice is not very bad at first. Very sour, then came the dominant bitterness and stickiness. As soon as I dig deeper with the tip of the knife, the resin is everywhere. Not good. Very tough core. The rind is awfully terrible, if there is a term like that.



HRS899 O/Q from Germany

Average weight 25g
Brix 12,5
Pleasant fragrance, less sharp and floral, I smell some deep sweet earthy notes. Rind is terrible.
Wow, green flesh!
The core is softer, barely anything. Quite thick albedo.
It has some stickiness and a slight bitter aftertaste. But the overall first taste is something completely different! I swear it has some minimal sweetness. A lot milder. Obviously there is something exciting going on. A little like a tart green apple, mixed with some green cucumber aroma. I can't put my finger on it but it's exotic and much much better than all the rest. Quite juicy, I easily squeezed all the juice by hand. Not as sticky as the PT.
I became so curious that I opened up a few more and one was yellow, the others were lime green. One had no seeds at all. I added water to it and it was great (even not sweetened) without off flavours. Tropical. I love this one.




Poncirus #8 (an improved selection of Poncirus #7 from Germany)

80g/2 pieces
Brix 16,5 (It was so dry that I couldn't get a drop out of it. So I touched the flesh to the lens of the refractometer but some pulp also got there. So it's probably much lower in reality rhan the value I got.)
Pleasant scent, a bit colder and lemony, sweetish.
Not bad. I think it's a bit too old so it's drier than it ideally should be. Still, I could squeeze some juice out of it. Very very bad rind.
The juice is tasty. Bitter and piney but I also detect some orange aroma in the background. There is resin in the flesh. Its overall aroma is better than PT but it's too bitter to me. This fruit is overripe, I'm sure it was a lot better a week ago.




Flying Dragon from Germany

Average weight 20g
Brix 10,5
Nice scent. Bad rind, bitter, sticky and piney.
Surprisingly thin albedo.
As I cut it up, it smelled bitterish instantly but it has some interesting, slightly mint-like notes.
Very piney and bitter. Surprisingly juicy, I can easily squeeze its juice by hand. The basic taste itself is interesting, fairly lemon-like and intensely sour but the sticky bitterness ruins the otherwise not bad experience. Still, it's better than PT.




Poncirus #7 (It came from Woddlanders in the USA in the 90's. It grows in Germany)

Average weight 28g
Brix 11,5
Very bad and thick rind.
Also drier, probably past its prime but there is still some juice in it.
Lemony taste, milder and more neutral, better than Poncirus 8 (which is too dry now). Also sticky. Less bitter.
Edit: I tried the hardest one and it is quite good! It's also a bit dry but the taste has no bitterness. It has some piney taste and sticky resin but the basic taste is good. Not too sour, fairly mild. Much better than PT.




Bajusz from Hungary

Average weight 70g
Brix 13
Rind is sticky and bitter, but there is some additional sweetish orange-like aroma.
Fruity, lemony, sour, but somewhat milder than a lemon. No bitterness but there is some resin. The taste is good with lemony and some slightly tropical notes. I don't know why but this one has significantly the most and biggest seeds.




The biggest takeaway for me was the observation that higher amount of juice makes the same amount of resin and bitterness much more tolerable. Of course, there is nothing surprising about that.

Overall, if I had to pick one of the PT like fruits, it would be Poncirus #7 or 'Bajusz' by a narrow margin. The comparison is not completely fair because Poncirus #8 is probably overripe and on the dry side. Besides that, the Ponciruslike fruits were relatively close. Pure PT was the worst, FD was already a step up and from then on, I didn't detect drastical differences. Like they are different shades of the same colour.
But the HRS899 O/Q is in a different league. Its hybrid nature is apparent. I was really surprised by the green flesh. I knew it would be different and it is. The structure of the fruit is a lot closer to the normal edible Citrus fruits. A little Changsha parentage goes a long way. 😀 All the other ones had a more or less hard core in the middle of the fruit, but HRS899 had nearly nothing. And the taste is also much more Citrus-like. Hard to describe but definitely better, despite the fact that it also has some stickiness and bitterness. Evidently a good breeding material.

Hi,

I'm looking for Bishop citrandarin in Europe. Or alternatively a better tasting US-852 would also be welcome. If you have available budwood, don't hesitate to send me a message.



Thanks.