The Tropical Fruit Forum

Hello Rei,

Welcome to the forum!

Thanks for the detailed report. I am especially interested in the development of your N30 and Tokushima yuzu.

From the weather details you shared, your climate is quite close to mine so if anything grows well there, it will be indicative for me, too. Good luck with your plants!

Ilya,

Thank you for the tip! I will check what that is. I haven't heard of oryzalin.

I see them. I experienced a very similar occasion when I posted pictures a few months ago. I didn't see them for another day or two while others did. Something weird is going on.
And after a while I received no emails of the incoming messages for over a month. And now I have emails again. I didn't change the settings so I have no idea why it happened this way.

By the way, thank you for the report, Jim! Your Prague is a most peculiar animal indeed.

Yes, that's right, thanks for the correction!

I meant the edible ones but didn't make it clear.

I also heard Marumi mentioned as the hardiest edible kumquat on more than one occasions. However Eyeckr posted some old scanned articles in another forum a while ago, and I read there that Nameiwa had survived some 8 F, if I remember well. I think those were records from the original breeders, I really enjoyed reading those papers. There was a number of them, all on Citrus breeding from the old days.

If anyone is interested, here is the link:

http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/viewtopic0941.php

So they are both good choices.

In the description I found they mention that Fukumoto is very picky when it comes to rootstocks. It is incompatible with C-35, and showed some problems on Carrizo and Swingle. But Volkameriana and sour orange are okay and pure Poncirus, too.

I don't know if it's correct but if you ever get round to trying to form a chimera of Fukumoto, probably it's a good idea to avoid C-35, Carrizo and Swingle, just to be on the safe side.

I have just read that, based on Californian growing experiences, 'Fukumoto' sweet orange has a tendency to form chimeras and mutations. Given that it's one of the earliest oranges, ripening from October, it might be worth experimenting with this one and Poncirus as a new chimera if anyone has it.

Hi all,

A few months back I asked for some taste reviews concerning the rootstock varieties at Lyn Seeds. Now I have them. If admins think it should be removed to the dedicated thread of these varieties, feel free to do so, but they were discussed in this thread so I post it here.

A big shout out to Brad who was kind enough not just to say which is better, but he also took pictures for me and even asked his wife's opinion on the one he thinks best. So dear Brad, if you ever read this: thank you again!

So, as a reminder: he thinks X-639 is one of the latest ripening ones, and it tastes very bad, sour and bitter, while the fruits are also fairly small.

And here are the others.
























Additional information from him:

None of this is very scientific.. I just sampled two fruit per tree at one time of year, so the information shouldn’t be taken as definitive.

The fruit on the trees were left unthinned, and the trees are watered, fertilized, and otherwise cared for as seed trees, not for fruit production. I don't think this would have a dramatic impact but just want to add that disclaimer. The trees were all grafted onto carrizo rootstock and are about 8 years old in the photos.

I feel like C-57 is the closest to a decent fruit. The flavor is quite sour/acidic, but some people like to eat very sour things. The slightly larger size and ability to remove the peel make it much more attractive than the other two. There are more seeds per fruit, but because the fruit volume is larger it doesn't feel as seedy when you're eating it. And being able to divide it into sections means you can just deal with one or two seeds at a time. Much more manageable.

The C-22 and C-54 are basically mush inside, by the way. The peel can be carefully and slowly picked off, but it's not easy or fun.

All these varieties are quite thorny.

Brad added comments from his wife on C-57:

"-Sour but not as sour as a lemon. No puckering when eating it.

-Not a strong bitter taste, very slight bitterness but it's not immediately noticeable

-Flavor somewhat similar to kumquat, but not the texture

-Adding sugar to the juice would probably taste good, or it could be used to add citrus flavor to dishes"


She ate the whole fruit pretty quickly and asked if there was  any more. Her overall verdict was "not bad at all". Just keep in mind that she likes sour flavors more than the average person, although I agree with her that it isn't as sour as a lemon."

So that's it, guys.

Happy New Year to all!

Thank you for the info Ilya, I found the pdf. I will read it on the way home.

After reading the second document they sent me, I will try to find a link to them online and make them available.

The first one already has some takeaways for me. Tetraploid fruit is usually of inferior quality for whatever reason. And the fertility of pollen is generally lower in tetraploid varieties vs. the normal diploid ones. But Marumi had much more viable pollen as tetraploid than diploid, and the original article I linked also reported better fertility for that Satsuma. So the best way to put it is tetraploid pollen has a different fertility than the normal diploid, for better or worse.
These are useful information but I still can't imagine why they didn't test those plants for hardiness.

I will be back with links to the articles tonight.

Well, they didn't react to my seed request, instead they kindly recommended doing it myself. I did a quick search and much to my surprise, I found a pill available to the public that contains colchicine so I think I will give it a try next year on early Satsuma seeds, if I find any.

But they attached two documents on the process and at least they took the effort to reply. This is a lot further than I got with Chinese universities who just don't give a damn.

Hi all and Happy Holidays,

I accidentally ran into an article that I found interesting:

https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4395/11/12/2441

A tetraploid seedling of Ishizuka Wase was found, then they grew it to fruiting stage and began to evaluate it. On paper, tetraploid should mean more vigor, bigger leaves etc. and most importantly, better hardiness. And this one has fairly fertile pollen which is not common among Satsumas. So I wrote to them and asked them about this plant. I had never heard of Ishizuka Wase before. Much to my surprise, I got a reply this morning:

'・About cold resistance
We have not conducted detailed tests on the cold resistance of this tetraploid, so we cannot answer your question about its cold resistance.
When observing the cultivation of this tetraploid in the field, it grows a little more vigorously than diploids.
As the climate warms, the cultivation area of Satsuma mandarin is moving further and further north in Japan (southern Tohoku region of Japan, latitude about 38°C).
I believe that the tetraploid has the same or even better ability.
Moreover, the quality of the tetraploid is inferior to that of the diploid.

・About ‘Ishizuka Wase’
'Ishizuka Wase' is a bud mutation of 'Okitsu Wase' and is a fairly minor variety.
'Ishizuka Wase' ripens a little earlier than the major Satsuma mandarin varieties 'Miyagawa Wase' and 'Okitsu Wase'.
There is no significant difference in fruit quality between these varieties.

・About breeding
We are not conducting any research other than the crossbreeding experiments presented in the paper. Research has been halted due to various circumstances at our laboratory (cultivation space, costs, etc.).'

Why they didn't test its hardiness is beyond me. But the overly viable pollen is a standout feature. I will write back to them. I hope that plant is still alive. I wonder what has become of its crosses they made. Not that we have any reason to believe this tetraploid Satsuma will ever get to Europe. ☹️

Thanks for the answer.

That's another nice one! You really seem to have a way with making crosses. Those reddish leaves look beautiful again.

A Meyer X 026 Conestoga seedling has survived 14 degrees F twice and will be rescued at this point. This particular tree is monofoliate and hopefully zygotic.

Wow! The birth of the new Pennsylvania hardy lemon? Rhyming to Carolina lime.

Till,

Thank you for the report!


Ilya,

It's fantastic if your fruits survived -9⁰C without damage! That seems like a quite rare virtue among the hardy Citrus.