1
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: November 16, 2025, 02:43:03 PM »
BP,
You're welcome! Plants are real scientific powerhouses. 👍
You're welcome! Plants are real scientific powerhouses. 👍
The Tropical Fruit Forum
Uniting Growers Worldwide!
News:
Email features have been reactivated 4/17/24
Show Posts
This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.
2
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: November 16, 2025, 01:57:07 PM »
Rei,
Yes, that's also true about age. They need time to learn about how this business goes. Some fail to learn and adapt while some survive.
Yes, that's also true about age. They need time to learn about how this business goes. Some fail to learn and adapt while some survive.
3
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: November 16, 2025, 01:03:04 PM »
BP,
Genetically speaking, you are absolutely right, the potential is the same, regardless of age. What I meant is a bigger plant with more gross weight, bigger canopy, more roots and more wood can tolerate more cold stress than a one-year-old seedling.
Much of the hardiness in plants comes from old, thicker wood and roots. The older the plant, the more it has of them. Small carbohydrate molecules are responsible for sprouting out and growth because they provide quick energy to the plant. But that's not necessary in wintertime. So as the weather gets cooler, they perform a conversion to big, complex starch/farina (I don't know which is the right term in English) molecules which are responsible for cold tolerance. Most of it is stored in thicker stems and roots. In winter, there is always a deep dormancy first when trees are simply asleep regardless of temperature. That's why you don't see an apple tree bloom in January. But after a while, dormancy is dictated only by the weather and that conversion begins to happen in the other direction, towards small carbohydrate molecules to make the plant ready to start the season whenever it's possible. When spring comes, no more hardiness is needed but the plant will use up a tremendous amount of energy to start growing. This happens every year like that. Of course, several factors of this process are specific to species. Some trees have a long deep dormancy while others can be easily tricked into false dreams of spring. But basically, that's why I think the bigger the plant, the hardier it is. Not genetically but individually if that makes any sense. What I wrote above applies to temperate zone. And this shows why it's such a big problem for Citrus when they start growing happily and boom, they get a sudden frost. They deconstructed their hardiness in order to provide growth and when frost comes, they will be all prone to it. So a single night of -4⁰C in April can kill a tree that previously took -10⁰C in winter without a problem simply because it's not prepared for it.
And a tree with bigger canopy can also retain more heat in winter than a youngster which has just one central stem.
I meant such factors when I wrote what I wrote. I hope I managed to put it correctly and it made some sense.
Genetically speaking, you are absolutely right, the potential is the same, regardless of age. What I meant is a bigger plant with more gross weight, bigger canopy, more roots and more wood can tolerate more cold stress than a one-year-old seedling.
Much of the hardiness in plants comes from old, thicker wood and roots. The older the plant, the more it has of them. Small carbohydrate molecules are responsible for sprouting out and growth because they provide quick energy to the plant. But that's not necessary in wintertime. So as the weather gets cooler, they perform a conversion to big, complex starch/farina (I don't know which is the right term in English) molecules which are responsible for cold tolerance. Most of it is stored in thicker stems and roots. In winter, there is always a deep dormancy first when trees are simply asleep regardless of temperature. That's why you don't see an apple tree bloom in January. But after a while, dormancy is dictated only by the weather and that conversion begins to happen in the other direction, towards small carbohydrate molecules to make the plant ready to start the season whenever it's possible. When spring comes, no more hardiness is needed but the plant will use up a tremendous amount of energy to start growing. This happens every year like that. Of course, several factors of this process are specific to species. Some trees have a long deep dormancy while others can be easily tricked into false dreams of spring. But basically, that's why I think the bigger the plant, the hardier it is. Not genetically but individually if that makes any sense. What I wrote above applies to temperate zone. And this shows why it's such a big problem for Citrus when they start growing happily and boom, they get a sudden frost. They deconstructed their hardiness in order to provide growth and when frost comes, they will be all prone to it. So a single night of -4⁰C in April can kill a tree that previously took -10⁰C in winter without a problem simply because it's not prepared for it.
And a tree with bigger canopy can also retain more heat in winter than a youngster which has just one central stem.
I meant such factors when I wrote what I wrote. I hope I managed to put it correctly and it made some sense.
4
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: November 16, 2025, 11:29:49 AM »
At the moment none of my plants is big enough to be planted outdoors. They all will be overwintered and I will feed them well next year to induce a strong growth. And then, in 2027 I want to plant a few ones in ground. I have read many reports about plants of otherwise hardy varieties that didn't survive outdoors because they weren't big enough. I don't want to make that mistake. They have much better chance if they are already strong. It might be unnecessary to be so cautious with a few of these varieties but I like to be on the safe side, even though I'm impatient and eager to plant something in the garden. I have no way of knowing what kind of winter is coming. Another year of raising Citrus in pots will be beneficial for me as a grower anyway. I will hopefully find the right soil mix and feeding pattern. This year was dominantly successful.
As for N30, it's possible that the fruits weren't completely ripe yet. They had some slight green hues. I checked the remaining three ones and one was a little softer to the touch again. I think I will try that one tomorrow. I'm very curious about the seeds because that fruit came from handpollination.
In the meantime my first HRS899 O/Q seedlings are coming up. So the seedling season is officially on for me. There will be many more to come so I will have entertainment for the winter months.
As for N30, it's possible that the fruits weren't completely ripe yet. They had some slight green hues. I checked the remaining three ones and one was a little softer to the touch again. I think I will try that one tomorrow. I'm very curious about the seeds because that fruit came from handpollination.
In the meantime my first HRS899 O/Q seedlings are coming up. So the seedling season is officially on for me. There will be many more to come so I will have entertainment for the winter months.
5
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: November 10, 2025, 03:09:36 PM »
This is my first crop so I have no idea what these fruits should be like. But I guarantee this is not bland and watery at all. Sweetness may come in the later fruits during the next weeks.
I guess the difference has a lot to do with our different climates. Though my logic says my fruit with our hotter summers should be sweet and bland while yours should be the sour one.
I guess the difference has a lot to do with our different climates. Though my logic says my fruit with our hotter summers should be sweet and bland while yours should be the sour one.
6
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: November 10, 2025, 12:56:34 PM »
Yuzu N30 Brix 12
Here is the day I have been waiting for ever since I realized I would have fruits on my little N30 tree. This is the smallest and softest fruit of the four. Fruits have an orange colour but they still have some greenish hues. Nevertheless, this specific fruit came off easily, I didn't need shears to remove it.
I found 15 seeds of varying size and shape plus an undeveloped empty one. This boosts my hopes about its possible zygosity.
The outer rind has a sweet taste first, then comes a little bitterness in an orange/lemon-like way. It tastes very intense and Citrusy with notes of mandarin/orange/kumquat but it's a little drier, not that extremely oily. The white albedo is moderately bitter, not that bad. Overall the rind is absolutely edible but not very pleasant due to the slight bitterness. Perfect for zesting though, I think it would be an excellent match for any dessert application. Good substitute for lemon or orange zest without compromises.
The scent is really nice and strong. I have never tried a yuzu fruit so I can't comment on how much it resembles yuzu but the deep mandarin aroma is here in spades, accompanied by a very spicy fragrance that I can smell when I crush a yuzu leaf. I can say this thing smells very pleasant.
The fruit is juicy, the flesh is sour. There isn't overly much flesh due to the size of the fruit. It's not as sour as a lemon, I would say it's on par with a ripe Meyer. I don't feel any sweetness. The high Brix suggests there is some but it doesn't cut through the acidity at all. Taste is refreshing with mandarin and lemon notes. Very Citrusy. Again, there might be yuzu notes, too, but I can't recognize them due to the lack of yuzu experience. But the green, spicy aroma of yuzu leaves is recognizable in the fragrance and partially in the flavour, too. Peelability is quite good. The fruit has not much flesh and texture but the peel is still relatively easy to separate.
I want to try the next fruit next week and go on with the remaining ones in that manner. I hope to find some sweetness in the last two ones.
The plant is still outdoors at the terrace, collecting some sunlight. The forecast shows no frost for a while so I think it's okay at this point.
I don't know what to think of this fruit. I was hoping for some sweetness but there was none. However, I think it was still a little underripe fruit and I must take into consideration the size of the plant. It's a wonder it raised 4 fruits. At this stage, I would say this fruit is an excellent exotic lemon substitute with an intense Citrus aroma (mainly Satsuma but not exclusively). And naturally, it has no off-flavours.
Here is the day I have been waiting for ever since I realized I would have fruits on my little N30 tree. This is the smallest and softest fruit of the four. Fruits have an orange colour but they still have some greenish hues. Nevertheless, this specific fruit came off easily, I didn't need shears to remove it.
I found 15 seeds of varying size and shape plus an undeveloped empty one. This boosts my hopes about its possible zygosity.
The outer rind has a sweet taste first, then comes a little bitterness in an orange/lemon-like way. It tastes very intense and Citrusy with notes of mandarin/orange/kumquat but it's a little drier, not that extremely oily. The white albedo is moderately bitter, not that bad. Overall the rind is absolutely edible but not very pleasant due to the slight bitterness. Perfect for zesting though, I think it would be an excellent match for any dessert application. Good substitute for lemon or orange zest without compromises.
The scent is really nice and strong. I have never tried a yuzu fruit so I can't comment on how much it resembles yuzu but the deep mandarin aroma is here in spades, accompanied by a very spicy fragrance that I can smell when I crush a yuzu leaf. I can say this thing smells very pleasant.
The fruit is juicy, the flesh is sour. There isn't overly much flesh due to the size of the fruit. It's not as sour as a lemon, I would say it's on par with a ripe Meyer. I don't feel any sweetness. The high Brix suggests there is some but it doesn't cut through the acidity at all. Taste is refreshing with mandarin and lemon notes. Very Citrusy. Again, there might be yuzu notes, too, but I can't recognize them due to the lack of yuzu experience. But the green, spicy aroma of yuzu leaves is recognizable in the fragrance and partially in the flavour, too. Peelability is quite good. The fruit has not much flesh and texture but the peel is still relatively easy to separate.
I want to try the next fruit next week and go on with the remaining ones in that manner. I hope to find some sweetness in the last two ones.
The plant is still outdoors at the terrace, collecting some sunlight. The forecast shows no frost for a while so I think it's okay at this point.
I don't know what to think of this fruit. I was hoping for some sweetness but there was none. However, I think it was still a little underripe fruit and I must take into consideration the size of the plant. It's a wonder it raised 4 fruits. At this stage, I would say this fruit is an excellent exotic lemon substitute with an intense Citrus aroma (mainly Satsuma but not exclusively). And naturally, it has no off-flavours.
7
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ponciruslike fruit comparison
« on: November 08, 2025, 02:10:24 PM »
Among HRS899 O/Q seeds, I found 3 small ones. They looked perfect, fat, round, and they looked every bit as the normal big ones, just in half or 2/3 size. Reading your comments, I would like to think they are hybrid seeds. I think I will know soon, those seeds are already sown.
8
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ponciruslike fruit comparison
« on: November 07, 2025, 08:05:57 AM »
Till,
That sounds cool! I hope your Staraji pollen was still viable. Please let us know about the seedlings next year.
That sounds cool! I hope your Staraji pollen was still viable. Please let us know about the seedlings next year.
9
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ponciruslike fruit comparison
« on: November 05, 2025, 04:03:12 PM »
It was a pleasure to try your fruits, guys, thank you both for the opportunity!
Probably I wouldn't have been so hard on Alan's PT if I had tried that one first. But the other two were first and they both were good and close. And trying a less good one after two more pleasant ones had some effect on me. Nevertheless, it was clearly worse than the other two. I guess that's a regular PT and the others are the improved ones.
Yes, your selection is good. I didn't detect much difference between Till#1 and Bajusz. They have some different notes but the overall quality is quite similar.
Alan's second and third plants are interesting though. If they are really hybrids, their seeds might be of interest. Please report about the fruit of the third seedling. I hope you will sow all the seeds. Who knows, there might be a surprising seedling.
Probably I wouldn't have been so hard on Alan's PT if I had tried that one first. But the other two were first and they both were good and close. And trying a less good one after two more pleasant ones had some effect on me. Nevertheless, it was clearly worse than the other two. I guess that's a regular PT and the others are the improved ones.
Yes, your selection is good. I didn't detect much difference between Till#1 and Bajusz. They have some different notes but the overall quality is quite similar.
Alan's second and third plants are interesting though. If they are really hybrids, their seeds might be of interest. Please report about the fruit of the third seedling. I hope you will sow all the seeds. Who knows, there might be a surprising seedling.
10
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: November 04, 2025, 03:11:39 AM »
Yuzu N30 fruits have an orange colour now. They still have the slightest hues of green but I think they will be ready soon:
This smallest fruit is getting softer to the touch so I think this will be the first one to try, maybe next week.
This smallest fruit is getting softer to the touch so I think this will be the first one to try, maybe next week.
11
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ponciruslike fruit comparison
« on: November 03, 2025, 11:52:57 AM »
Till kindly sent me a few fruits of his Till#1 Poncirus and Alan Bishop's PT. I still had a local Bajusz fruit from last week so it seemed like a good idea to compare them all and use Bajusz as a reference point because I know that fruit well.
Bajusz Brix 13
19 seeds in half of the fruit
I won't go into details again, you can read the previous reviews. It's a good quality PT fruit with a tiny bit of sweetness (I think it's more than last week when it was freshly picked) and no detectable bitterness. When I lick the fruit, I feel some resin but it might come from the albedo. What seems interesting is the colour. It's light greenish while the other two are pure golden yellow. I took a picture with just this and Till#1 so it might be seen. Its higher Brix is probably due to the growing location, Till lives very far North from here.
Till#1 Brix 10,5
21 seeds plus 1 empty
It's more fragrant than Bajusz. It has a little bitterness and resin but not bad at all. Its taste is pure sour with hints of lemon. Other than that, I find these two similar. Till#1 is a bit more neutral and lemony, while Bajusz is a little more tropical and milder. That might have a lot to do with the higher sugar content of Bajusz which might be the consequence of our hotter growing spot. I went back and forth with these two (I skipped Alan's PT after the first time trying that, you'll see why) and I detect shades of differences only. These are both fairly good and juicy.
Alan's PT Brix 10,5
16 seeds plus 5(!) empty
I won't beat around the bush: it's bad. It has a nice intense quince fragrance but bitterness and resin attacked me the moment I tried it. It's a little less juicy. It's dominated by acid and piney taste so I wouldn't even write more about that. But it has a standout feature which grabbed my attention and that's the very high number of undeveloped seeds. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I see a mix of polyembryonic and monoembryonic seeds here. I insert a few closeup pictures. Some are thin and long like wheat while others are fatter and have a bump on their side. I didn't cut up any of them, it's just what I think I see. Of course, it all may have no importance at all, I just never saw so many undeveloped seeds in a PT before so I thought it was worth mentioning.
Bajusz vs. Till#1 colour:
Alan's PT seeds:
All in all, I tend to think the better PT strains are quite close to each other tastewise. The bad ones are really bad. Mind you, I have never been lucky enough to try a PT+, Kinga1 or PT++ fruit. They might stand out even from the better regular PT selections I have tasted, I don't know.
Bajusz Brix 13
19 seeds in half of the fruit
I won't go into details again, you can read the previous reviews. It's a good quality PT fruit with a tiny bit of sweetness (I think it's more than last week when it was freshly picked) and no detectable bitterness. When I lick the fruit, I feel some resin but it might come from the albedo. What seems interesting is the colour. It's light greenish while the other two are pure golden yellow. I took a picture with just this and Till#1 so it might be seen. Its higher Brix is probably due to the growing location, Till lives very far North from here.
Till#1 Brix 10,5
21 seeds plus 1 empty
It's more fragrant than Bajusz. It has a little bitterness and resin but not bad at all. Its taste is pure sour with hints of lemon. Other than that, I find these two similar. Till#1 is a bit more neutral and lemony, while Bajusz is a little more tropical and milder. That might have a lot to do with the higher sugar content of Bajusz which might be the consequence of our hotter growing spot. I went back and forth with these two (I skipped Alan's PT after the first time trying that, you'll see why) and I detect shades of differences only. These are both fairly good and juicy.
Alan's PT Brix 10,5
16 seeds plus 5(!) empty
I won't beat around the bush: it's bad. It has a nice intense quince fragrance but bitterness and resin attacked me the moment I tried it. It's a little less juicy. It's dominated by acid and piney taste so I wouldn't even write more about that. But it has a standout feature which grabbed my attention and that's the very high number of undeveloped seeds. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I see a mix of polyembryonic and monoembryonic seeds here. I insert a few closeup pictures. Some are thin and long like wheat while others are fatter and have a bump on their side. I didn't cut up any of them, it's just what I think I see. Of course, it all may have no importance at all, I just never saw so many undeveloped seeds in a PT before so I thought it was worth mentioning.
Bajusz vs. Till#1 colour:
Alan's PT seeds:
All in all, I tend to think the better PT strains are quite close to each other tastewise. The bad ones are really bad. Mind you, I have never been lucky enough to try a PT+, Kinga1 or PT++ fruit. They might stand out even from the better regular PT selections I have tasted, I don't know.
12
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frosthardiness experience with citrusvarieties in zone 7, down to 3,2 F
« on: November 02, 2025, 04:40:30 AM »
Nice job Frank! 👍
I guess you left the remaining fruits on the tree to see how they develop with time.
I guess you left the remaining fruits on the tree to see how they develop with time.
13
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Frost hardy citrus in Poland, zone 6
« on: October 30, 2025, 01:07:50 PM »
Marcin,
Your latest report is very interesting. The odd twig of Sorfo got me thinking. Can it be the result of a bud mutation? I have read that many Citrus plants have longer thorns on juvenile branches but they will have shorter thorns when they enter reproductive phase. That could be a possible explanation but as much as I can see from your pictures, this plant is fairly small so it's unlikely to be the case, unless it's a very precocious variety. Given its genetics, or what we know of it, that would be quite a surprise. I guess we will know better next year, if that leaf shape and the short thorns remain. But in any case, that plant - and that branch in particular - will deserve good protection.
Your latest report is very interesting. The odd twig of Sorfo got me thinking. Can it be the result of a bud mutation? I have read that many Citrus plants have longer thorns on juvenile branches but they will have shorter thorns when they enter reproductive phase. That could be a possible explanation but as much as I can see from your pictures, this plant is fairly small so it's unlikely to be the case, unless it's a very precocious variety. Given its genetics, or what we know of it, that would be quite a surprise. I guess we will know better next year, if that leaf shape and the short thorns remain. But in any case, that plant - and that branch in particular - will deserve good protection.
14
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ventura harvest
« on: October 30, 2025, 01:46:39 AM »
Thanks for the answer. Having ripe fruit on the inground tree in late October is great. If that pattern remains for the future, Ventura might become a new favourite hardy Citrus, with regard to its sweet fruit. But for that to happen, more hardiness details will be needed. I recall it didn't work for Mulberry but I think that was a small plant.
15
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ventura harvest
« on: October 29, 2025, 03:20:55 PM »
Thank you for posting, Ilya! Those fruits look beautiful. Do they ripen this early every year? I recall reading it ripens around late November but it seems to be palatable sooner.
16
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: October 28, 2025, 12:34:09 PM »
My first Marumi fruit turning colour:
It's lagging about 3 weeks behind Malayan. I recall they both started flowering around early-mid June. This fruit is from that first batch of flowers. That's not bad. If Marumi has the same ripening schedule, I guess this fruit will be ripe within another 2-3 weeks.
It's lagging about 3 weeks behind Malayan. I recall they both started flowering around early-mid June. This fruit is from that first batch of flowers. That's not bad. If Marumi has the same ripening schedule, I guess this fruit will be ripe within another 2-3 weeks.
17
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: October 27, 2025, 07:54:20 AM »
Yuzu N30 turning colour:
I scratched a fruit and it has a wonderful fragrance. It's a mix between the heavy, oily, deep scent of Satsuma rind and the fresh, spicy, floral aroma of yuzu leaves. I'm very curious about these fruits.
I scratched a fruit and it has a wonderful fragrance. It's a mix between the heavy, oily, deep scent of Satsuma rind and the fresh, spicy, floral aroma of yuzu leaves. I'm very curious about these fruits.
18
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: Ponciruslike fruit comparison
« on: October 27, 2025, 06:52:52 AM »
Hi all,
Here are some new PT/hybrid fruit reviews I posted elsewhere. I want them to be here as well, in case anybody misses the info there.
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=60062.msg568947#msg568947
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=60062.msg569577#msg569577
Here are some new PT/hybrid fruit reviews I posted elsewhere. I want them to be here as well, in case anybody misses the info there.
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=60062.msg568947#msg568947
https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=60062.msg569577#msg569577
19
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: October 27, 2025, 03:29:41 AM »
More fruit reviews. A massive thanks to Robert for the Ichang and PT fruits!
Ichang IVIA F2 (seedling of IVIA 358) Brix 13
What on earth is that red middle part? Hm.
Rind is terrible. At first it's piney, or like juniper instead. Different from the Poncirus way of pininess. And when I start to think it's not that bad, comes an awful bitterness a second later, accompanied by a 'hot' spiciness, as if it was sprinkled with chili powder. Very bad. When I scratched the rind, I could smell that juniper-like fragrance with some citrusy notes. It was pleasant.
The flesh is absolutely fine. This is the first Ichang I have ever tried and I must say it's fairly good. No off-flavours, no bitterness, no distracting aroma, nothing. Just sour. There is a tiny bit of pininess in there but it's different in quantity and quality, not as distracting as is the case with PT. It's some extra interest. So I would say it's a good lemon substitute. It lacks the lemon aroma but it's sour, citrusy and juicy. At this hardiness point I think there is no place for complaints. Sadly, this fruit has no seed.
But that red part in the middle keeps me thinking. I tried a piece of that and it's nearly tasteless, without the sourness. It's also more solid, jelly-like. May it be an overripe fruit, starting to spoil? If you have more experience with Ichang, feel free to chime in.
HRS899 O/Q Brix 15
I won't go into details again about it. It's the same but after two weeks in fridge, it's a bit drier. No surprise. It's a good fruit with an extra something above the lemony PT taste. Maybe a tiny bit of mandarin aroma. That and sweetness come a bit more dominantly now than they did a week ago. Again, at this hardiness point, we shouldn't complain. The fruit had 5 big seeds and 3 underdeveloped ones.
PT Brix 12
The biggest Poncirus I have ever seen. The taste is pleasant, I think it's less sour than usual but I instantly felt resin and stickiness in my mouth when I tasted its juice. There is a little bitter aftertaste, too. Just a tad. And interestingly, when I lick the fruit, there is some mealiness that I detect. Like there is some flour dissolved in the juice. And there is an extra flavour, maybe pomelo or grapefruit, making it more tropical than I would expect.
Overall it's not bad, it's very juicy and its taste is better than most PT I have tried. It's a shame about the resin and bitterness. 32 seeds in half of the fruit.
Bajusz Brix 13
Later today I managed to get Bajusz fruits. I didn't detect any big differences versus last year's fruits. Maybe they are less juicy now due to the extremely dry summer and autumn we had. But the taste is similarly good. Actually, it's quite like Robert's PT fruit but I think there is some hint of orange here instead of the tropical note of that PT. But we are talking about nuances. Bajusz juice has no resin and it's very sour. I tend to think it's a citrange or a citrange seedling which embraces its PT heritage a lot more than the Citrus parent. Its non producing sibling has significantly different leaves with more pronounced middle leaflets so I guess they are hybrids.
Before I forget, I will copy the links of these PT and hybrid fruit reviews in the 'Ponciruslike fruit comparison' thread, too.
Ichang IVIA F2 (seedling of IVIA 358) Brix 13
What on earth is that red middle part? Hm.
Rind is terrible. At first it's piney, or like juniper instead. Different from the Poncirus way of pininess. And when I start to think it's not that bad, comes an awful bitterness a second later, accompanied by a 'hot' spiciness, as if it was sprinkled with chili powder. Very bad. When I scratched the rind, I could smell that juniper-like fragrance with some citrusy notes. It was pleasant.
The flesh is absolutely fine. This is the first Ichang I have ever tried and I must say it's fairly good. No off-flavours, no bitterness, no distracting aroma, nothing. Just sour. There is a tiny bit of pininess in there but it's different in quantity and quality, not as distracting as is the case with PT. It's some extra interest. So I would say it's a good lemon substitute. It lacks the lemon aroma but it's sour, citrusy and juicy. At this hardiness point I think there is no place for complaints. Sadly, this fruit has no seed.
But that red part in the middle keeps me thinking. I tried a piece of that and it's nearly tasteless, without the sourness. It's also more solid, jelly-like. May it be an overripe fruit, starting to spoil? If you have more experience with Ichang, feel free to chime in.
HRS899 O/Q Brix 15
I won't go into details again about it. It's the same but after two weeks in fridge, it's a bit drier. No surprise. It's a good fruit with an extra something above the lemony PT taste. Maybe a tiny bit of mandarin aroma. That and sweetness come a bit more dominantly now than they did a week ago. Again, at this hardiness point, we shouldn't complain. The fruit had 5 big seeds and 3 underdeveloped ones.
PT Brix 12
The biggest Poncirus I have ever seen. The taste is pleasant, I think it's less sour than usual but I instantly felt resin and stickiness in my mouth when I tasted its juice. There is a little bitter aftertaste, too. Just a tad. And interestingly, when I lick the fruit, there is some mealiness that I detect. Like there is some flour dissolved in the juice. And there is an extra flavour, maybe pomelo or grapefruit, making it more tropical than I would expect.
Overall it's not bad, it's very juicy and its taste is better than most PT I have tried. It's a shame about the resin and bitterness. 32 seeds in half of the fruit.
Bajusz Brix 13
Later today I managed to get Bajusz fruits. I didn't detect any big differences versus last year's fruits. Maybe they are less juicy now due to the extremely dry summer and autumn we had. But the taste is similarly good. Actually, it's quite like Robert's PT fruit but I think there is some hint of orange here instead of the tropical note of that PT. But we are talking about nuances. Bajusz juice has no resin and it's very sour. I tend to think it's a citrange or a citrange seedling which embraces its PT heritage a lot more than the Citrus parent. Its non producing sibling has significantly different leaves with more pronounced middle leaflets so I guess they are hybrids.
Before I forget, I will copy the links of these PT and hybrid fruit reviews in the 'Ponciruslike fruit comparison' thread, too.
20
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: October 26, 2025, 03:11:52 AM »
These names are synonyms, those two are the same variety. In Europe Arcobal is often used instead of the longer Meyer x Doppio Sanguigno name. As far as I know, there are several different hybrids born out of this cross but this is the only one that made a reputation in the market.
21
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: October 25, 2025, 05:08:25 PM »
Thanks Marcin! Our breeding goals are quite similar. I'm the lucky one out of the two of us, having milder winters than the ones you are facing every year. On the other hand, if a variety works for you, that will surely work for me. So I will keep an eye on the damage reports you announce. Your crosses are inspirational. I also hope to grow out my first ever hybrid seedlings of my own within a few months. That is, if yuzu N30 shows any willingness to develop zygotic seeds, which I can't be sure of. We'll see. I will report what I find anyway.
By the way, more fruit reviews will come next week.
By the way, more fruit reviews will come next week.
23
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: October 20, 2025, 03:12:22 PM »
Thank you guys, much appreciated!
I had to apologize in advance for failing to be brief but I want to give all the info that I think is relevant. And I have too much to say. The next thing I know I will write about is yuzu N30. Fruits are becoming softer and a little yellow. I hope to have some updates within a few weeks.
BP, feel free to attach pictures!
I had to apologize in advance for failing to be brief but I want to give all the info that I think is relevant. And I have too much to say. The next thing I know I will write about is yuzu N30. Fruits are becoming softer and a little yellow. I hope to have some updates within a few weeks.
BP, feel free to attach pictures!
24
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: October 19, 2025, 02:08:58 PM »
And here is the first fruit tasting of the season!
Malayan kumquat
It's impossible to cut it in two halves, the peel of one half comes off in one piece. So what I experienced in April was not because those fruits were overripe. I never saw this at other kumquats.
4 viable seeds and an aborted one.
The rind smells nothing like regular kumquats when I scratch it. It has some vegetable smell with a hint if Citrus. Something like parsley. Not what you would expect. It isn't unpleasant just shocking.
Very little flesh. It tastes like a toned down Nagami, rind is thin, neutral tasting (maybe a little sweet but barely) while the flesh is sour. Not as overly sour as Nagami or Calamondin.
Not bad overall but I understand why its fruit is not sold anywhere. I wouldn't pay for it. If anyone wants those 4 seeds, let me know.
Arcobal Brix 7
I don't know how typical or representative this fruit is, I found it too hard to the touch so I kept it on the kitchen desk for a week before trying the fruit. No seeds inside. I found a few aborted ones though.
The rind is edible. Not especially good but I found nothing bad about it so I ate a chunk of flesh with a piece of rind.
The rind seperates from the flesh easily. Not zipper peel but I had no difficulty removing the rind. The flesh has a nice orange colour and tastes like a blood orange without sweetness. It's sour but not too sour. I could never eat a piece of lemon but I managed to eat a wedge of this one without swearing about it so it's surely milder than a lemon. The flesh is juicy but not overly juicy, I see more fibers than juice, if it makes sense. Its taste is more blood orange than Meyer. I wouldn't eat it out of hand but I imagine it can be good if a fruit is let ro ripe longer, maybe it can even develop some sweetness.
HRS899 O/Q Brix 13,5
A whopping 22 viable seeds in such a small fruit (and a few undeveloped ones).
I know from last year that it's no use tackling its rind so I immediately squeeze the juice by hand which happens quite easily. The juice has an agreeable taste. I remember it wasn't bad at all last year but I think it's better now. There is a little sweetness! Actually, probably quite a lot, enough to shine through the extremely acidic taste. I retried Arcobal again which now seemed more like a moderately sweet orange after the HRS899 O/Q fruit. So the HRS is indeed very sour. But I detect no bad flavours, and the hand-squeezed juice had no resin and no bitterness at all. Just acidity and a tiny bit of sweetness. I diluted the juice with water and it tasted good. Of course I could recognize the Poncirus heritage easily in the taste but only the better, floral part of it. All in all, it's a decent lemon substitute if you just need the sour juice.
There was resin on the knife after cutting the fruit. If I used a juicer, that would also be sticky. But I could juice the fruit very easily with my hand. There wasn't much flesh and most of it was seeds but what there was tasted good and held a fair amount of juice. One fruit would be plenty enough for a nice big mug of tea.
Malayan kumquat
It's impossible to cut it in two halves, the peel of one half comes off in one piece. So what I experienced in April was not because those fruits were overripe. I never saw this at other kumquats.
4 viable seeds and an aborted one.
The rind smells nothing like regular kumquats when I scratch it. It has some vegetable smell with a hint if Citrus. Something like parsley. Not what you would expect. It isn't unpleasant just shocking.
Very little flesh. It tastes like a toned down Nagami, rind is thin, neutral tasting (maybe a little sweet but barely) while the flesh is sour. Not as overly sour as Nagami or Calamondin.
Not bad overall but I understand why its fruit is not sold anywhere. I wouldn't pay for it. If anyone wants those 4 seeds, let me know.
Arcobal Brix 7
I don't know how typical or representative this fruit is, I found it too hard to the touch so I kept it on the kitchen desk for a week before trying the fruit. No seeds inside. I found a few aborted ones though.
The rind is edible. Not especially good but I found nothing bad about it so I ate a chunk of flesh with a piece of rind.
The rind seperates from the flesh easily. Not zipper peel but I had no difficulty removing the rind. The flesh has a nice orange colour and tastes like a blood orange without sweetness. It's sour but not too sour. I could never eat a piece of lemon but I managed to eat a wedge of this one without swearing about it so it's surely milder than a lemon. The flesh is juicy but not overly juicy, I see more fibers than juice, if it makes sense. Its taste is more blood orange than Meyer. I wouldn't eat it out of hand but I imagine it can be good if a fruit is let ro ripe longer, maybe it can even develop some sweetness.
HRS899 O/Q Brix 13,5
A whopping 22 viable seeds in such a small fruit (and a few undeveloped ones).
I know from last year that it's no use tackling its rind so I immediately squeeze the juice by hand which happens quite easily. The juice has an agreeable taste. I remember it wasn't bad at all last year but I think it's better now. There is a little sweetness! Actually, probably quite a lot, enough to shine through the extremely acidic taste. I retried Arcobal again which now seemed more like a moderately sweet orange after the HRS899 O/Q fruit. So the HRS is indeed very sour. But I detect no bad flavours, and the hand-squeezed juice had no resin and no bitterness at all. Just acidity and a tiny bit of sweetness. I diluted the juice with water and it tasted good. Of course I could recognize the Poncirus heritage easily in the taste but only the better, floral part of it. All in all, it's a decent lemon substitute if you just need the sour juice.
There was resin on the knife after cutting the fruit. If I used a juicer, that would also be sticky. But I could juice the fruit very easily with my hand. There wasn't much flesh and most of it was seeds but what there was tasted good and held a fair amount of juice. One fruit would be plenty enough for a nice big mug of tea.
25
Cold Hardy Citrus / Re: The Citrus I have
« on: October 19, 2025, 01:38:31 PM »
3. Breeding directions
This is where my imagination goes really unleashed.
I'm fascinated by red fleshed Citrus. So I want to create some blood yuzu, blood kumquat with Marumi, Ichangblood, blood citrandarin, blood bergamot etc.
Besides that, my general breeding directions are very simple:
Long, deep dormancy to avoid spring frosts and waking up too early, so it would be ideal to have the plant flowering in May when planted in ground
Sweet fruit that ripens before late October
Consequently it has to produce fruits very quickly (5 months from flowering)
Reliable hardiness down to -13/-14 ⁰C. That would be probably enough in my area in the foreseeable future
These are my wishes. Making them come true won't be that easy though. And of course there are many crosses which would be interesting just for the sake of it. So here are a few ideas, besides the ones I mentioned previously:
HRS899 O/Q x Honey Changsha/Owari F.S./Keraji D14/Amoa8/Clemenrubi
Honey Changsha x Ichangquat
Summer yuzu x Honey Changsha/Owari F.S./Keraji D14/Amoa8
Clemenrubi x Honey Changsha/Owari F.S./Keraji D14/Amoa8
Staraji x Honey Changsha/Owari
F.S./Keraji D14
Staraji x yuzu N4
Staraji x Clemenrubi both ways
Pt++ x Keraji D14
Bishop x Satsuma
Clemyuzquat (Clemyuz 2-2 x Marumi both ways)
Kiyomi x Summer yuzu
Ichang IVIA x Staraji
Clemenrubi x Marumi
Clemenrubi x Eremomandarin
Clemenrubi x Summer yuzu
Eremomandarin x Xie Shan
Arcobal x Honey Changsha
Amoa8 x Ichangquat
Yuzu N30 x Ichangquat
Honey Changsha x Ichangquat
Ichang x Xie Shan
Marumi x Keraji D14
Marumi x Eremomandarin
This is where my imagination goes really unleashed.
I'm fascinated by red fleshed Citrus. So I want to create some blood yuzu, blood kumquat with Marumi, Ichangblood, blood citrandarin, blood bergamot etc.
Besides that, my general breeding directions are very simple:
Long, deep dormancy to avoid spring frosts and waking up too early, so it would be ideal to have the plant flowering in May when planted in ground
Sweet fruit that ripens before late October
Consequently it has to produce fruits very quickly (5 months from flowering)
Reliable hardiness down to -13/-14 ⁰C. That would be probably enough in my area in the foreseeable future
These are my wishes. Making them come true won't be that easy though. And of course there are many crosses which would be interesting just for the sake of it. So here are a few ideas, besides the ones I mentioned previously:
HRS899 O/Q x Honey Changsha/Owari F.S./Keraji D14/Amoa8/Clemenrubi
Honey Changsha x Ichangquat
Summer yuzu x Honey Changsha/Owari F.S./Keraji D14/Amoa8
Clemenrubi x Honey Changsha/Owari F.S./Keraji D14/Amoa8
Staraji x Honey Changsha/Owari
F.S./Keraji D14
Staraji x yuzu N4
Staraji x Clemenrubi both ways
Pt++ x Keraji D14
Bishop x Satsuma
Clemyuzquat (Clemyuz 2-2 x Marumi both ways)
Kiyomi x Summer yuzu
Ichang IVIA x Staraji
Clemenrubi x Marumi
Clemenrubi x Eremomandarin
Clemenrubi x Summer yuzu
Eremomandarin x Xie Shan
Arcobal x Honey Changsha
Amoa8 x Ichangquat
Yuzu N30 x Ichangquat
Honey Changsha x Ichangquat
Ichang x Xie Shan
Marumi x Keraji D14
Marumi x Eremomandarin