Multi-graft persimmon tree.

[Lovetoplant]

Hello, has anyone successfully graft hachiya on to fuyu persimmon tree?

[sc4001992]

I'm sure you can. I don't care for the astringent (soft ripe) fruits so I only have multi-grafted non-astringent persimmons on my trees. I haven't found any variety that is not compatible yet. Here's what I have grafted on Giant Fuyu , Matsumoto, and Hayakume trees.

1   Chocolate
2   Coffee Cake
3   Fuyu
4   Great Wall
5   Hayakume
6   Izu
7   Jiro
8   Kurokuma
9   Maru
10   Matsumoto
11   Saijo
12   Suruga

[Lovetoplant]

Thank you.  I tried grafting hachiya onto my fuyu in February, but failed. 

What month would be best to graft persimmon?  Any method recommendation?

Among 12 varieties you grow, can you please tell me your two most favorites?

I only fertilized my fuyu once in late March.  Can I fertilize it once more?  I learned that it will drop fruits if over fertilized with nitrogen.

[sc4001992]

Try grafting again now. Persimmons are not that easy to graft always, so you need to do many grafts and a few make take. Most people like to graft before the buds start to open up on the rootstock in spring. I graft from Jan-Sept. I'm grafting some now as well.

I couldn't tell you my favorits, I have only tasted the fuyu, giant fuyu, hayakume, matsumoto, and jiro so far. When the new grafts have fruits next year I will let you know which ones are my favorite.

You can use any grafting method, I just use the cleft graft. Since its hot, you must cover the grafted scion with sun protection (aluminum foil, paper bag) or if the rootstock is in a pot, move into full shade until the graft grows out.

[Lovetoplant]

I will try grafting some now like you suggested.

 Will the scions need to be prepared more like cherimoya scions(ridding off all leaves and wait for the buds to swollen)?

What is your fertilizing schedules for a matured fruitting persimmon tree?

Would be nice to hear an update on your favorite varieties this fall..

Thank you

[sc4001992]

You can prep the scions, make it grow faster after you graft it, but not necessary.
I fertilize once a year if I remember, still get plenty of fruits.

[Seanny]

Saw grafted Hachiya at HD today.

[sc4001992]

.

[Flgarden]

I grafted on fuyu: saijo, coffee cake, izu, chocolate
I grafted on hachiya: saijo and coffee cake.
I did it when rootstocks were waking up and when they had leaves. I tried bud grafting and cleft. I tried with fresh scions and the refrigerated for a few weeks.  all took. I have all kind of troubles with annonas grafting but persimmons and asian pears had no issues.

[Seanny]

Did you graft to last year wood or older wood?

[Flgarden]

Some on older some on last year wood. Multi graft was not a plan. It just happened because rootstocks arrived very skinny and scions were much thicker. So i grafted on my trees. Some wood was so hard to keep cleft tight. I didn't think it would work.

[sc4001992]

Flgarden, what months did you do your grafts ?

[Flgarden]

I grafted in march and april.

[shiro]

What rootstock did you use?
diopyros virginiana or diospyros lotus or others

[Flgarden]

Rootstocks i received were too skinny so, not to waste scions, i had to graft on established Fuyu and hachiya trees.

[RollingInTheWeeds]

I don't care for the astringent (soft ripe) fruits so I only have multi-grafted non-astringent persimmons on my trees. I haven't found any variety that is not compatible yet. Here's what I have grafted on Giant Fuyu , Matsumoto, and Hayakume trees.

1   Chocolate
2   Coffee Cake
3   Fuyu
4   Great Wall
5   Hayakume
6   Izu
7   Jiro
8   Kurokuma
9   Maru
10   Matsumoto
11   Saijo
12   Suruga

Just so you know, if your #8 (Kurokuma) is the scion that you got from me, there are a couple of issues here.

1.  It isn't a Kurokuma.  It's a seedling of Kurokuma.  I started it from a seed that I got from a Kurokuma fruit that I ate at a persimmon tasting at UCANR.  I know that the fruit I ate was a Kurokuma persimmon, but no one knows what the pollinator was.  I'm sure I made this clear before I sent it to you, but it might have skipped your mind; we had a nice exchange, and probably covered enough details that it would be easy to forget this little bit of info.  So the fruit you get from that scion might be like Kurokuma, but it might be totally different, since the gene pool got scrambled around in the midst of all that hot sex persimmons have.   

2.  Also, if this seedling takes after its Kurokuma parent, it will be an astringent fruit.  I understand people liking the ease of eating non-astringent fruit.  You don't have to worry about whether the thing has been pollinated, or treated in some way to eliminate (hopefully!) the astringency.  But for the record, I'll say that I haven't ever tasted a non-astringent persimmon that has quite the complexity of rich flavors that Kurokumas I've tasted have had.  (And I tasted a wide variety of persimmons at the UCANR tastings in two different years.)

3.  I'm still waiting to get fruit from the Kurokuma seedling.  None yet.  I hope it will produce for the first time this year.  But one thing is clear already: I have a multigraft persimmon tree, and this is the 2nd year in a row that the Kurokuma seedling branch is the first branch to break bud.  In fact, I went out to see it today, and its buds are opening now.  Matsumoto Wase (the scion I got from you) and Tsurunoko ("Chocolate" from Dave Wilson Nursery) are still dormant.

I hope that helps.

[sc4001992]

Yes, thanks for correcting me on the Kurokuma seedling graft. I don't think my graft will have any fruits this year, it is still not that large. Hope next year it grows more branches and fattens up.

[Lovetoplant]

Yes, thanks for correcting me on the Kurokuma seedling graft. I don't think my graft will have any fruits this year, it is still not that large. Hope next year it grows more branches and fattens up.

Kaz any idea what variety is this persimmon?  It does not taste bitter when eating while it is hard.

[sc4001992]

Lovetoplant, my base tree on the Hyakume was the Giant Fuyu. I remember it had large rounder shaped fruits (compared to Fuyu) like yours. It would get plenty of large fruits, but I didn't think it had a lot of taste to me, and the normal Fuyu seemed to taste better so I ended up top working all the branches, so I don't have any Giant Fuyu fruit to try.

[seattlefiggirl]

I'm sure you can. I don't care for the astringent (soft ripe) fruits so I only have multi-grafted non-astringent persimmons on my trees. I haven't found any variety that is not compatible yet. Here's what I have grafted on Giant Fuyu , Matsumoto, and Hayakume trees.

1   Chocolate
2   Coffee Cake
3   Fuyu
4   Great Wall
5   Hayakume
6   Izu
7   Jiro
8   Kurokuma
9   Maru
10   Matsumoto
11   Saijo
12   Suruga

Could you please let me know the order of ripening? Thank you.

[Tlaloc]

I have a 45+ year old hachiya seedling that I have multiple grafts.
I do have delayed compatibility when I graft. But I suspect it is because they abort due to the trees lack of water in the Summer.
I am missing two from this list.

1.   Chocolate (Tsurunoko)
2.   Coffee Cake (Nishimura Wase)
3.   Fuyu
4.   Orange County Fuyu
5.   Hyakume
6.   Izu
7.   Jiro
8.   Kurokuma
9.   Maru
10. Matsumoto wase
11. Saijo
12. Imoto
13. Maekawa
14. Suruga
15. Russian Beauty (hybrid)
16. Tribble
17. Honan red
18. Giant Fuyu

[drymifolia]

I have a 45+ year old hachiya seedling that I have multiple grafts.
I do have delayed compatibility when I graft. But I suspect it is because they abort due to the trees lack of water in the Summer.

It is notoriously difficult to maintain multi-graft persimmons because most persimmon trees will pretty aggressively "self-prune" / abort some of the lower branches every growing season, so you often lose grafts that aren't the central leader.

[sc4001992]

yup, I see that on my trees, they just randomly die off the lower branches, so I need to re-graft on other branches.

[Tlaloc]

I have a 45+ year old hachiya seedling that I have multiple grafts.
I do have delayed compatibility when I graft. But I suspect it is because they abort due to the trees lack of water in the Summer.

It is notoriously difficult to maintain multi-graft persimmons because most persimmon trees will pretty aggressively "self-prune" / abort some of the lower branches every growing season, so you often lose grafts that aren't the central leader.

I water heavily in the hot Summers. The tree seems to abort even its own smaller branches that are weaker and under shade. So I try and watch the grafts and prune excess newer growth and give those newer grafts plenty of sun. But yes I do get grafts that die off, but I re-graft the following season.

[sc4001992]

I have a better strategy now for the problem of multi-grafted varieties to eventually start to die off. Most of my grafts on the same giant fuyu tree have eventually died now. So I have many more in ground trees. For one kaki tree (Japanese rootstock), I cut of the grafted variety on the tree and let the rootstock grow wild. It is a very vigorous rootstock, grows 20 ft in one year, so this year I chopped it down to the height I needed (5ft) and now I have tens of new strong vigorous branches from it. Now I will graft only my favorite 6-7 varieties on this vigorous rootstock. The tree itself has been in ground for over 30 years (my dad gave it to me). I also now have a neat variety called Kurokagi (black persimmon) I grafted on my other tree this year and it is growing well, even had small fruits I removed. I plan to graft these varieties on my rootstock tree.

1. Kuro Kagi
2. Matsumoto wase- non astringent
3. Hyakume - pollination-variant non-astringent
4. Suruga- non astringent
5. Saijo - astringent
6. Nishimura Wase (coffeecake)- non astringent 
7. Fuyu (original) - non astringent