Minimum age, or minimum size of seedling, for successful grafting?

[LazarusLong714]

Good evening.   
     I am wondering, is there a minimum "age" or minimum size diameter of a seedling that is considered for grafting?    Would that be the same for both rootstock and scions or would those numbers be different based on which position they were to take in the mix?

     Also, are there any recommended books or websites that I could or should read to get some of these basic knowledge things moving along?   Being from Northern Ohio, my knowledge of Citrus culture is pretty thin.  If I can read a bunch from a solid source, maybe I won't ask a bunch of silly questions.  I know I am bound to ask a bunch of questions that will leave all of you wondering if I was dropped on my head as a baby...   and I will say it again, I am starting from scratch here, I really don't know much, but I am enthusiastically interested.

Thanks.

Lazarus

[caladri]

Spend some time on Google Scholar. There's no minimum age, but it depends on skill, level of care provided, etc. The site is broken right now, but the UC Citrus Production Manual is a great resource to get oriented in general.
https://anrcatalog.ucanr.edu/Details.aspx?itemNo=3539 Spend some time with the archives of this forum (and others) and on Google Scholar, too.

[LazarusLong714]

Caladri,
       have you ever had one of those moments when you want to do something really exaggerated, just to proclaim publicly that you missed something obvious?   Yep, you gave me one of those "slaps self on forehead" moments.  I did a (simple) google search for a citrus website a month ago (or so) and found this one.  I stopped here and didn't even check out any of the other sites!  Of COURSE there has to be other resources besides here.
       Gosh Darn it, I had just gotten to know some of the names of the members here, including yours, through reading here, that I just jumped right in.     I mean you no disrespect and I am NOT being sarcastic...  I literally couldn't see the forest for the trees!  I was so darned excited that I found an awesome treasure trove of information about something I was interested in that I looked no further. This is a serious DUH moment. (No Sarcasm here, either. This is genuine embarrassment.)

       Anyway, thanks for the reality-check.    My wife does this for me, from time to time.   It's a character defect of mine, to dig in like a pit-bull. 
     I will keep asking questions, but I will get past the simple ones on my own.

     I sincerely hope all is well for you, have a great day.

Lazarus

[David Kipps]

Larger sizes are easier on the eyes and fingers, but tiny can work.  I know they are larger seeds, but some people graft chestnuts onto barely germinating nuts ("nut-grafting").

[Millet]

Long time professional graters successfully do micro grating.   However, this is no place for new grafters.  Wait until the item to be grafted is large enough to be handled easily.
. 

[Galatians522]

Pencil size (the diameter of a pencil) is a good rulw od thumb.

[LazarusLong714]

Gentlemen, that sounds like a lot of wisdom in a few words right there!  Thanks for that info and it makes perfect sense.  I'm near sighted but still have some pretty good size fingers.

    I feel like I am so far behind the curve, and northern Ohio is not necessarily the best place in the U.S. for citrus.  I want to try 50 different things but I am going to be significantly limited by my indoor space, and at that, by what I can artificially light up for the 6 months of gloomy weather.   I need to get some of these projects rolling so I can have something to do indoors during our cold and wet winters.

    More reading to do.    Gentlemen, have a nice evening.

Lazarus.

[vnomonee]

I grafted a seedling of a limequat, cotyledons still present and left leaves grafted it on a year old top worked grapefruit. I put a bottle over it in the shade and it the graft took.

[poncirsguy]

My youngest graft was a new Zealand lemonade to a Seville sour orange of 7 months.

[hardyvermont]

On the old forum there was a topic about grafting a sprouted seed onto a rootstock. 

[LazarusLong714]

WOW.   Those are interesting answers.  Thanks for all of that info.     

   I only have about 25 kumquat seedlings (of unknown origin: the kumquats I bought were marked "Melissa's Produce" but the kumquat variety was not specified) and about 25 "grocery store lemon" seedlings, all around 2 months old.   I guess I could play with them a bit once they get a bit bigger, since they are nothing special, but I think I will really need to get some seeds/seedlings/plants of known variety to really worry about .

    Yep.   I guess that will be a plan, then.    sprouting some more "free" seeds to have plenty to practice on, and also get ahold of some of the ones that I really WANT to have as keepers.

      Vnomonee:  would you happen to have any photos of that?   That must have been a very delicate surgery to perform.  When you say "year old top worked grapefruit"... what does that mean?   Was there a reason for this graft?

      Poncirsguy:  How would you rate the difficulty of your graft at 7 months?  How old do you normally let them get before grafting?  was there a reason you grafted that one at that age?

       Hardyvermont:  There was an old forum?   Is this still archived somewhere?  Is there a way to access it?

      Thanks for the replies and the conversation.  You all are really helping me learn. Not just the things you say, but the way you are opening my thoughts to things I wouldn't even have considered.   

     Lazarus.

[hardyvermont]

http://citrusgrowersstatic.chez.com/web/indexc4ff.php

Does anyone know where the information about seed grafting method is located?

[poncirsguy]

"Poncirsguy:  How would you rate the difficulty of your graft at 7 months?  How old do you normally let them get before grafting?  was there a reason you grafted that one at that age?"  I was new to grafting so I spliced a bud to the side of a seedling then cut off the top.  I now do T-Budding only.

My more modern grafts are T-Buds to more developed seedlings

[Travillion]

https://fruitmentor.com/ has a lot of information. He also has a YouTube channel with videos for most of his articles. Madison Citrus Nursery has some good YT videos on grafting. Most co-ops for citrus producing states (California, Arizona, Texas, Florida) have some good articles on grafting.

[LazarusLong714]

Hardyvermont & Poncirsguy:  thanks for the replies, truly, the more you guys explain the more I am learning.   I appreciate your willingness to converse and share a little of what you know.

Travillion:  I have run across a couple of FruitMentor's videos, but while looking up something specific.   I guess I just need to peruse his catalog.   I will look up Madison Citrus Nursery on YT:  didn't know they had any, so thanks for the info!

    Happy Labor Day, everyone.

Lazarus.