Miracle Fruit Advice Requested

[Lumi-Ukko]

I'm not a big fan of starting a new topic for every question when I think adding it to an existing thread helps consolidate useful information. However, the last thread I could find labelled for Miracle Fruit advice turned into a bit of a snipefest. Even the forum code suggested I open a new thread instead of replying to the older one. So anyhow, here goes...

I have a metre or so tall Miracle Fruit tree in a roughly 15 gallon pot that I planted around a year ago. for the best part of time it did well, and when it started to look a bit iffy, I managed to perk it up with some acidifying fertilizer and got a decent berry harvest for the second time. However, it soon started to look sick again, which I initially put down to our crazy record-breaking hot dry season this past spring. However, two solid months into rainy season and it still isn't looking great.

Some background. I potted it with a mix of perlite, local topsoil, compost, and peat moss.  Our local soil is very alkaline and tends to clay up when wet.  The well water that is used to irrigate it during drier spells is also very alkaline. I've been religiously giving coffee grounds, sulfur, and measuring the pH to get it into optimal range, plus occasional weak compost tea and foliar sprays, so I am thinking I have other issues.

So what next?  In my opinion I think that the soil has sludged up, or salt/saline conditions are taking over.  I drilled lots of big holes to the pot to help drainage, but I think the roots are just too wet still.  Sadly I think I will need to pull it from it's pot and try to repot it with a cleaner mixture.

My questions are:

1) Am I even on the right track with my thoughts?  Can I try something else before going defcon 1?  I'll try to add a photo of the tree/leaves tomorrow
2) I heard that Miracle Fruit get upset very easy when the roots are disturbed. How would I go about cleaning up any sludgy mess should I find it?
3) Related to #2, is there any suggested substrate mix which will avoid using my local crappy topsoil?  I have most ingredients one could need, so it would be about putting these into an applicable mixture.
4) Am I crazy even trying? She's an already decent sized tree and don't want to give up on it.

Thank you in advance of any replies.

[Aristolochia]

Can you take a close up pic of your potted soil and the leaves of your plant?

1/3. I would have said it's a pH issue if it was only the coir/peat you we're using to adjust but I also use sulfur for mine and that should be more than enough. When I bought mine, it was looking rough. Brown leaf tips we're the primary symptom. This persisted regardless of changes to pH when I added sulfur pellets. Repotting to new soil that I mixed myself was the first thing that started turning things around for my plant. I found that the 15 gal pot it came in was filled about 1/3 full (and was instructed not to fill it more because it didn't like too much soil). But the real problem was that the soil it DID have, was pure, condensed sludgy silt that could not drain well if the pot had 50 holes in it. For soil, I mix peat moss, perlite, and a combination of soil amendments that are primarily a combo of coir/composted forest products, bark fines manure/worm casings. But err on the side of light and not heavy so, like, 50-60% Peat, 10-20% perlite, and the rest (30-40% max) denser organics that break down over time. My #1 problem before anything else was to check if the soil was sludgy and to correct that.

2. Not in my experience. I had to wash off the almost silt-like sludge from the pot it came in which I was so adamant in removing that i just washed the entire root system off under my tap and planted into better soil. Seemed to appreciate the change without any shock. Started putting out new growth almost immediately.

4. If the problem persists even after improving soil drainage, then it's likely a humidity issue. Trickier to solve but doable if you want to go crazy and build your own greenhouse enclosure.

Hope this helps!

[Sir Graftalot]

I have 3 miracle berry trees (1 small leaf and the other two have larger leaves). The smaller leaf plant went yellow leaf on me and it's been like this for 2 years. I did everything I could - repotted it with fresh peat, watered it exclusively with rain water and ascorbic acid powder...nothing helped. The larger leaf plants are as green and health as can be. I think the smaller leaf ones are just weaker in general. It did give me a heck of a crop 2 years ago before going all sickly.

[Lumi-Ukko]

Can you take a close up pic of your potted soil and the leaves of your plant?

1/3. I would have said it's a pH issue if it was only the coir/peat you we're using to adjust but I also use sulfur for mine and that should be more than enough. When I bought mine, it was looking rough. Brown leaf tips we're the primary symptom. This persisted regardless of changes to pH when I added sulfur pellets. Repotting to new soil that I mixed myself was the first thing that started turning things around for my plant. I found that the 15 gal pot it came in was filled about 1/3 full (and was instructed not to fill it more because it didn't like too much soil). But the real problem was that the soil it DID have, was pure, condensed sludgy silt that could not drain well if the pot had 50 holes in it. For soil, I mix peat moss, perlite, and a combination of soil amendments that are primarily a combo of coir/composted forest products, bark fines manure/worm casings. But err on the side of light and not heavy so, like, 50-60% Peat, 10-20% perlite, and the rest (30-40% max) denser organics that break down over time. My #1 problem before anything else was to check if the soil was sludgy and to correct that.

2. Not in my experience. I had to wash off the almost silt-like sludge from the pot it came in which I was so adamant in removing that i just washed the entire root system off under my tap and planted into better soil. Seemed to appreciate the change without any shock. Started putting out new growth almost immediately.

4. If the problem persists even after improving soil drainage, then it's likely a humidity issue. Trickier to solve but doable if you want to go crazy and build your own greenhouse enclosure.

Hope this helps!

Hi Aristolochia,

Thank you for your well thought out response!  Some of what you say does tally with what I initially wrote. As you requested, below my musings here are some images. The soil even near the roots on the surface does look "cloying" so I reckon a soil overhaul will be needed. Some other ramblings:

I do have peat, perlite, some decently composted leaf litter, coconut coir, composted chicken manure, and fine pine bark available, so will follow your advice and mix up a similar ratio to you.  Additionally, at present, we are consistently over the 70% humidity range 24hrs a day and will be for the next 2 to 3 months, so I am not too worried about that for now. Lastly, I'll try not to worry about the shock of cleaning off the roots from any silty sludge. At this point, I don't think I can make things much more worse, other than death of the pant, which it is slowly on it's way to anyhow if I don't change things.

Photos:

[Lumi-Ukko]

I have 3 miracle berry trees (1 small leaf and the other two have larger leaves). The smaller leaf plant went yellow leaf on me and it's been like this for 2 years. I did everything I could - repotted it with fresh peat, watered it exclusively with rain water and ascorbic acid powder...nothing helped. The larger leaf plants are as green and health as can be. I think the smaller leaf ones are just weaker in general. It did give me a heck of a crop 2 years ago before going all sickly.

Hi Sir Graftalot (great name btw), I am actually unsure which variety I have, but going by photos I have seen of the trees of many others, I would guess a small leaf variety. So perhaps it is a weaker tree, though I would think not helped by our volatile climatic swings and my inexperience with this type of tree. I'm not prepared to give up on it yet, as at a metre + tall, she isn't a cheap thing to replace like for like in size.

[Alippincott]

I have killed my fair share of miracle berry. I am currently trying an experiment with 5% sulphuric acid and it they seem to be loving it. I am going to go against the grain and test out soils that are not as heavy in peat. Peat eventually turns to sludge which I feel is the death for miracle berries. I think I might test out more non organic soils. I have heard Decomposed granite is slightly acidic. I might try that. It will be an interesting experiment.

[Lumi-Ukko]

I have killed my fair share of miracle berry. I am currently trying an experiment with 5% sulphuric acid and it they seem to be loving it. I am going to go against the grain and test out soils that are not as heavy in peat. Peat eventually turns to sludge which I feel is the death for miracle berries. I think I might test out more non organic soils. I have heard Decomposed granite is slightly acidic. I might try that. It will be an interesting experiment.

Let us know in this thread how you get along. I'll post an update when I get round to re-potting my tree and the ratios I used. We can track the progress of the trees.

I may dial back the peat moss a little and ramp up the fine pine bark, which, all things being equal should satisfy keeping the roots more aerated but with similar acidity.

[Alippincott]

I have killed my fair share of miracle berry. I am currently trying an experiment with 5% sulphuric acid and it they seem to be loving it. I am going to go against the grain and test out soils that are not as heavy in peat. Peat eventually turns to sludge which I feel is the death for miracle berries. I think I might test out more non organic soils. I have heard Decomposed granite is slightly acidic. I might try that. It will be an interesting experiment.

Let us know in this thread how you get along. I'll post an update when I get round to re-potting my tree and the ratios I used. We can track the progress of the trees.

I may dial back the peat moss a little and ramp up the fine pine bark, which, all things being equal should satisfy keeping the roots more aerated but with similar acidity.

Sure thing. I also think keeping worms away from the pot is key. It is good to keep the pot off the ground a bit. I have experience of worms converting the peat to sludge. Might depend on the worm species, but I know red wrigglers will do it.

[toomanyplants]

I associate those dry tips with the end of winter when the dry air and salt buildup have worked their magic on the plant.  That said, miracle berries are some of the easiest fruits to grow in containers -- only slightly more difficult than tomatoes in my opinion.  You just need to know a few basic facts: they are tropical understory plants that like acidic, well-drained soil.

With that in mind:
* Make the soil 50% perlite / 50% peat.  I never used any other amendments.
* Choose a pot with drainage holes, and put a good saucer under it.
* Keep the pot cool.  Shade it.  Don't let it sit on hot concrete.
* Mostly bottom water, but a good top watering now and then will help to get rid of excess salts.
* Don't let the soil dry fully.
* Partially shade the leaves.  Two hours or so of direct sun is fine and possibly even beneficial to fruiting.  I recommend placing them under or behind taller plants.  If the leaves redden, then it wants more shade.
* Fertilize with an acidic fertilizer like Miracle Gro acid.  Fancier fertilizers probably work better, but I wouldn't know.
* Add micronutrients occasionally.
* Don't let it get below 45F.

They are slow growers, but you should easily be able to get multiple crops per year out of your tree if you follow these simple rules.

[Alippincott]

I associate those dry tips with the end of winter when the dry air and salt buildup have worked their magic on the plant.  That said, miracle berries are some of the easiest fruits to grow in containers -- only slightly more difficult than tomatoes in my opinion.  You just need to know a few basic facts: they are tropical understory plants that like acidic, well-drained soil.

With that in mind:
* Make the soil 50% perlite / 50% peat.  I never used any other amendments.
* Choose a pot with drainage holes, and put a good saucer under it.
* Keep the pot cool.  Shade it.  Don't let it sit on hot concrete.
* Mostly bottom water, but a good top watering now and then will help to get rid of excess salts.
* Don't let the soil dry fully.
* Partially shade the leaves.  Two hours or so of direct sun is fine and possibly even beneficial to fruiting.  I recommend placing them under or behind taller plants.  If the leaves redden, then it wants more shade.
* Fertilize with an acidic fertilizer like Miracle Gro acid.  Fancier fertilizers probably work better, but I wouldn't know.
* Add micronutrients occasionally.
* Don't let it get below 45F.

They are slow growers, but you should easily be able to get multiple crops per year out of your tree if you follow these simple rules.

What is your winter routine? Keep them inside with grow lights?

[toomanyplants]

That and a humidifier.  I aim for 45% -- high enough to keep my plants from getting crispy, but low enough to prevent mold.

[Darcizzle]

I'm not a big fan of starting a new topic for every question when I think adding it to an existing thread helps consolidate useful information. However, the last thread I could find labelled for Miracle Fruit advice turned into a bit of a snipefest. Even the forum code suggested I open a new thread instead of replying to the older one. So anyhow, here goes...

I have a metre or so tall Miracle Fruit tree in a roughly 15 gallon pot that I planted around a year ago. for the best part of time it did well, and when it started to look a bit iffy, I managed to perk it up with some acidifying fertilizer and got a decent berry harvest for the second time. However, it soon started to look sick again, which I initially put down to our crazy record-breaking hot dry season this past spring. However, two solid months into rainy season and it still isn't looking great.

Some background. I potted it with a mix of perlite, local topsoil, compost, and peat moss.  Our local soil is very alkaline and tends to clay up when wet.  The well water that is used to irrigate it during drier spells is also very alkaline. I've been religiously giving coffee grounds, sulfur, and measuring the pH to get it into optimal range, plus occasional weak compost tea and foliar sprays, so I am thinking I have other issues.

So what next?  In my opinion I think that the soil has sludged up, or salt/saline conditions are taking over.  I drilled lots of big holes to the pot to help drainage, but I think the roots are just too wet still.  Sadly I think I will need to pull it from it's pot and try to repot it with a cleaner mixture.

My questions are:

1) Am I even on the right track with my thoughts?  Can I try something else before going defcon 1?  I'll try to add a photo of the tree/leaves tomorrow
2) I heard that Miracle Fruit get upset very easy when the roots are disturbed. How would I go about cleaning up any sludgy mess should I find it?
3) Related to #2, is there any suggested substrate mix which will avoid using my local crappy topsoil?  I have most ingredients one could need, so it would be about putting these into an applicable mixture.
4) Am I crazy even trying? She's an already decent sized tree and don't want to give up on it.

Thank you in advance of any replies.

I have two very large miracle fruit trees (one short leaf and one long leaf) for 6 years in 20 gallon containers  and I believe within the last year I finally got them extra happy. I made my own soil mixture. I used 50% Canadian sphagnum peat moss/50% perlite or pumice. I top dress every 6 months with Dr Earth Acid Lovers fertilizer- I have been adding pine needles and pine bark to the top 4 inches of soil. I will also add soil acidifier and coffee grounds to the top dressing recipe.

When the tips of the leaves are brown, it usually signifies they didn’t receive enough water or the soil is not acidic enough. This happened to the both of my plants about 16 months ago. They don’t like soaking wet soil but they also don’t like the soil to dry out, ever. I use rain water only, I mix that water with pH down to bring the ph to about 4-4.5 ph. I will also add Mycorrhiza and fish emulsion every other watering, they real seem to thrive and respond really well to extra stuff I add to the waterings. They are slow growers- but one of my plants grew and easy 3.5ft in the last year. The brown leaf tips from last year are almost gone (the plants periodically drops leaves) and the new growth is super healthy with shiny leaves. Once a year, I use a soil ph Meter to make sure the ph is within optimal range.

Both of my trees live under my screened in porch, west facing.  They are shaded all day except when they receive direct sunlight from about 3-6pm. The more shade, the better. They really can’t tolerate direct sun for long periods.

I highly recommend that you repot with the proper soil mixture, it shouldnt hurt it and give it regular waterings. I water about every 5-7 days in winter and every 3-5 days in the summer. I started watering more frequently this summer and they responded well and I have been rewarded with hundreds of berries in the last 4- 6 months. Miracle fruit is a perfect container plant, best of luck with it.

[Lumi-Ukko]

I'm not a big fan of starting a new topic for every question when I think adding it to an existing thread helps consolidate useful information. However, the last thread I could find labelled for Miracle Fruit advice turned into a bit of a snipefest. Even the forum code suggested I open a new thread instead of replying to the older one. So anyhow, here goes...

I have a metre or so tall Miracle Fruit tree in a roughly 15 gallon pot that I planted around a year ago. for the best part of time it did well, and when it started to look a bit iffy, I managed to perk it up with some acidifying fertilizer and got a decent berry harvest for the second time. However, it soon started to look sick again, which I initially put down to our crazy record-breaking hot dry season this past spring. However, two solid months into rainy season and it still isn't looking great.

Some background. I potted it with a mix of perlite, local topsoil, compost, and peat moss.  Our local soil is very alkaline and tends to clay up when wet.  The well water that is used to irrigate it during drier spells is also very alkaline. I've been religiously giving coffee grounds, sulfur, and measuring the pH to get it into optimal range, plus occasional weak compost tea and foliar sprays, so I am thinking I have other issues.

So what next?  In my opinion I think that the soil has sludged up, or salt/saline conditions are taking over.  I drilled lots of big holes to the pot to help drainage, but I think the roots are just too wet still.  Sadly I think I will need to pull it from it's pot and try to repot it with a cleaner mixture.

My questions are:

1) Am I even on the right track with my thoughts?  Can I try something else before going defcon 1?  I'll try to add a photo of the tree/leaves tomorrow
2) I heard that Miracle Fruit get upset very easy when the roots are disturbed. How would I go about cleaning up any sludgy mess should I find it?
3) Related to #2, is there any suggested substrate mix which will avoid using my local crappy topsoil?  I have most ingredients one could need, so it would be about putting these into an applicable mixture.
4) Am I crazy even trying? She's an already decent sized tree and don't want to give up on it.

Thank you in advance of any replies.

I have two very large miracle fruit trees (one short leaf and one long leaf) for 6 years in 20 gallon containers  and I believe within the last year I finally got them extra happy. I made my own soil mixture. I used 50% Canadian sphagnum peat moss/50% perlite or pumice. I top dress every 6 months with Dr Earth Acid Lovers fertilizer- I have been adding pine needles and pine bark to the top 4 inches of soil. I will also add soil acidifier and coffee grounds to the top dressing recipe.

When the tips of the leaves are brown, it usually signifies they didn’t receive enough water or the soil is not acidic enough. This happened to the both of my plants about 16 months ago. They don’t like soaking wet soil but they also don’t like the soil to dry out, ever. I use rain water only, I mix that water with pH down to bring the ph to about 4-4.5 ph. I will also add Mycorrhiza and fish emulsion every other watering, they real seem to thrive and respond really well to extra stuff I add to the waterings. They are slow growers- but one of my plants grew and easy 3.5ft in the last year. The brown leaf tips from last year are almost gone (the plants periodically drops leaves) and the new growth is super healthy with shiny leaves. Once a year, I use a soil ph Meter to make sure the ph is within optimal range.

Both of my trees live under my screened in porch, west facing.  They are shaded all day except when they receive direct sunlight from about 3-6pm. The more shade, the better. They really can’t tolerate direct sun for long periods.

I highly recommend that you repot with the proper soil mixture, it shouldnt hurt it and give it regular waterings. I water about every 5-7 days in winter and every 3-5 days in the summer. I started watering more frequently this summer and they responded well and I have been rewarded with hundreds of berries in the last 4- 6 months. Miracle fruit is a perfect container plant, best of luck with it.

Hi Darcizzle, thank you for the detailed response. With yours and others suggestions, I am going ot try and brave the soil change. I have one question left, to how much can I worry about washing away any congealed soil from the rootball before adding to it's new soil? I have a feeling there's some poor soil conditions around the root zone and probably should take care of that at the same time.

[Lumi-Ukko]

So I took the plunge Saturday and repotted the miracle fruit.  When I pulled it from its 15 gal pot, the soil was so compacted and dense, it was clear to see why it had been struggling.  I washed off most of the soild from the rootball, leaving a little of the sandy/loamy bit that was attached when I bought it.

Repotted in the same size pot (clean one) with a mix made using everyone's suggestions. I went for:

48% sphagnum peat moss
45% perlite
5% pine bark chips small to medium sized
2% pumice.
Added some gypsum, mycorrhizae, and a little soil acidifier into the mix.

Watered it in with some weak pH Down and diluted fish emulsion. Topdressed with some holly-tone and a decent layer of thicker pine bark chips.

Moved it in to a fairly shady spot to minimize transplant shock; the sun here is hella strong, so it will get max of 1hr full sun in the mid-late afternoon.  Will keep measuring the pH level and adjust the acidity accordingly as well as throwing on some used coffee grounds from time to time.  Hopefully we get more rainfall as it has been strangely dry here for peak rainy season. I really don't like giving the acid loving plants our crappy alkali groundwater from the well as it just becomes a daily struggle.

Looking forward to see how it responds now. Can tell the container is much lighter now.

Now onto the next project of fixing my Jaboticaba which is also struggling for some reason...

[UnicornEmily]

Darcizzle, your advice about shade is very helpful!  Thank you!  That's one of the things I've been wondering about.  My summers are hot, dry, and high in UV, so most plants want a lot of shade here.  I've decided this is an invitation to plant more apples, sunchokes, and squashes to shade everything else (since those species don't mind our intense full sun, ha ha ha).

I didn't realize miracle fruit bushes want acidic soil.  That's incredibly helpful to know!  It sounds like I should amend the spot where I plan to keep them in-ground (next to the rain tank inside my greenhouse) with a lot of extra acidifying stuff.  It also sounds like it may be a good idea to plant some giant bush squashes on the south side of them before our summer heat starts, so they'll be surrounded by gigantic leaves to shade them all summer. 

Will miracle fruit bushes want shade in winter, as well?  Or should I let them get all the winter sun they can?

[Alippincott]

Darcizzle, your advice about shade is very helpful!  Thank you!  That's one of the things I've been wondering about.  My summers are hot, dry, and high in UV, so most plants want a lot of shade here.  I've decided this is an invitation to plant more apples, sunchokes, and squashes to shade everything else (since those species don't mind our intense full sun, ha ha ha).

I didn't realize miracle fruit bushes want acidic soil.  That's incredibly helpful to know!  It sounds like I should amend the spot where I plan to keep them in-ground (next to the rain tank inside my greenhouse) with a lot of extra acidifying stuff.  It also sounds like it may be a good idea to plant some giant bush squashes on the south side of them before our summer heat starts, so they'll be surrounded by gigantic leaves to shade them all summer. 

Will miracle fruit bushes want shade in winter, as well?  Or should I let them get all the winter sun they can?

Miracle fruit should not go below 50 F for very long. Usually it is kept inside during winters. I have only seen it kept outdoors in Florida.

[kapps]

Yeah, I treat them like Jaboticabas. They do fine down in the 30s in a Florida winter (mid 30s at night for a day or two before warming up). In a pot, I use almost 100% peat moss and fertilize with holly tone. In the ground, they grow more slowly but seem to do fine with little fertilizer or help from acidic soil.

[UnicornEmily]

Miracle fruit should not go below 50 F for very long. Usually it is kept inside during winters. I have only seen it kept outdoors in Florida.

(Grin.)  Well, I'll report back about how my greenhouse setup worked for them later, then! 

[Lumi-Ukko]

I will update my tree's status in 4 weeks when I return from a trip. When I left, it was pushing out new growth, larger leaves and much healthier looking leaves. Still a ways to go to see if it bounces back properly but early indications are good.