Xie Shan in CA

[CharlieLoon]

Anyone know a source for a Xie Shan Mandarin in CA? I've tried grafting my own three times (2-4 grafts/trees each time) over the last three months, and so far have failed every time. Budwood is coming from CCPP. I was using Flying Dragon rootstock from Four Winds Growers.

There's a small chance one of my grafts from early Aug will survive, but it's starting to show a little blackness at the tip now as well.

I'm not sure I want to keep trying grafting--I'd prefer to buy a larger tree anyway, but I haven't been able to find any sources in CA.

[a_Vivaldi]

While I'm sure people do it all the time, I don't know that grafting a satsuma to flying dragon is doing you many favors. Both are pretty slow growing plants that are just kinda lethargic. The graft union might not be closing up in time before the scion dies.

It might work better to get something really vigorous like US-802, get it established and growing good, and then graft the Xie Shan to it.

[botanical pilot]

I've also tried and failed with Xie Shan on poncirus, good to know that I should probably try a different rootstock next season.

[pinkturtle]

I am able grafted them on c35 and FD 2 years ago and they are fruiting right now.

[CharlieLoon]

It's official--all my last graft attempts have failed.

It seems odd to me that a number of the grafts looked quite good for almost a month.

I guess I'll see if the rootstock can grow back and maybe attempt re-grafting onto them later. At this point I've cut them pretty short from repeat grafting attempts--perhaps that might be part of the problem, as they've been without any leaves for a few months (though are very much alive when I cut them back a bit for each successive graft attempt)

I bought a nicely branching Pixie Mandarin and am going to try to topwork that. Maybe I'll have better luck with a more mature tree than the small rootstocks. Hopefully that works ok--it was the nicest branching mandarin there. I didn't give much thought though that they're polar opposites with regards to when in the season they fruit, but my guess is that doesn't matter since that's determined at the bud level, not the trunk/stems.

I really want a Xie Shan. And I suppose it wouldn't hurt to learn top-working so I can delve deeper into the rabbit hole and order even more Mandarin varieties from CCPP...

[botanical pilot]

Sorry to hear that, CharlieLoon. What grafting method are you using?

I plan on ordering Xie Shan again in the spring and trying to graft on my Rangpur, Yuzu, and Lane Late Navel. Let us know how your next grafting attempt goes.

It's unfortunate it seems to be challenging to graft on poncirus, I have a local tree that has provided me with all the seeds I've needed for rootstocks up until now. So far I've successfully grafted finger limes, NZ Lemonade, and Silverhill Satsuma to these seedlings.

[CharlieLoon]

Sorry to hear that, CharlieLoon. What grafting method are you using?

I plan on ordering Xie Shan again in the spring and trying to graft on my Rangpur, Yuzu, and Lane Late Navel. Let us know how your next grafting attempt goes.

It's unfortunate it seems to be challenging to graft on poncirus, I have a local tree that has provided me with all the seeds I've needed for rootstocks up until now. So far I've successfully grafted finger limes, NZ Lemonade, and Silverhill Satsuma to these seedlings.

I've been using z-grafts.

Will keep you all updated. Hope this time is a success! I just need one graft to hold...

[Johnny Eat Fruit]

Interesting you had zero takes with your grafts. Over the last several months I have grafted about 25-30 Flying Dragon rootstocks in #2 pots at are in my greenhouse. My overall grafting sucess rate is about 70-75%. Most of these scions were also from the CCPP.

Some examples I had sucess with were Nagami Kumquat, Variegated Calamondin, Fairchild Mandarin, Femminello Santa Teresa Lemon, Kinnow Mandarin, Minneola Tangelo, Coctail Pummelo and Beam Tarocco Blood Orange. Having a greenhouse really helps and I don't think I would have tried this if they were growing outside and the Flying Dragons are very slowing growing but in my greenhouse I got them from 5" to over 36" tall in one year. Most growers also use greenhouses for the same reason.

Johnny

[sc4001992]

Charlie, you may need to practice more on your grafting. It is more difficult to graft on a FD tree if it has many curves so using trifoliate or any lemon, orange, or grapefruit as rootstock is the best solution for you. I thought Xie Shan Mandarin was going to taste great, but it is only average tasting to me, similar to any satsuma mandarin. I have it grafted on my lemon tree, my Sumo grafted branch with Xie Shan, Golden nugget rootstock tree, and on grapefruit tree. Xie Shan seems to grow slow, so I don't like the way it grows. I will do one more graft of it on my large Alemow tree since everything else that I graft on this tree grows very fast and strong.

A simple cleft graft is all you need to use for citrus.

[CharlieLoon]

Charlie, you may need to practice more on your grafting. It is more difficult to graft on a FD tree if it has many curves so using trifoliate or any lemon, orange, or grapefruit as rootstock is the best solution for you. I thought Xie Shan Mandarin was going to taste great, but it is only average tasting to me, similar to any satsuma mandarin. I have it grafted on my lemon tree, my Sumo grafted branch with Xie Shan, Golden nugget rootstock tree, and on grapefruit tree. Xie Shan seems to grow slow, so I don't like the way it grows. I will do one more graft of it on my large Alemow tree since everything else that I graft on this tree grows very fast and strong.

A simple cleft graft is all you need to use for citrus.

You are certainly correct I need more practice!

With regards to the taste of Xie Shan--some have told me it was the best tasting, others average. As long as it's average that's fine--what I really care about is that it ripens a meaningful amount before my Miho Wase, so it extends my Mandarin season. My goal is to have home-grown mandarins for as much of the year as possible. Xie Shan and Miho Wase in early fall all the way to late spring/summer (if I let the fruit hold) with Gold Nugget and Pixie.

[sc4001992]

I also tried to get some mandarin varieties that could ripen earlier so I can extend the fruiting season but have not found any variety that ripens earlier than my Ponkan mandarin. The Xie Shan fruits was not riper any earlier than the other satsumas I have. So for me the mandarins are not ripe until November, then continues until March.

[CharlieLoon]

My latest grafting attempts seems to be failing already. 

Does anyone know of a nursery in CA that sells Xie Shan trees? This thread https://tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=27056.0 mentions two down in San Diego. I'm up in SLO so even something an hour or two further north saves me a lot of time.

I'll cold call a bunch of nurseries, but there are obviously lots of them down in the LA/SD region, so if anyone can point me to places I might have better luck with, that would be of an immense help.

[12Zodiac]

Too bad I’m in the citrus quarantine area or else I can send you some Xie Shan scions. You’ll get fruits much faster grafted to a mature tree. I grafted Xie Shan from CCPP to my satsuma in May 2023 and it has fruited. I Can’t wait to taste it. My satsuma tasted bland this year.

[sc4001992]

Dan, your Xie Shan fruits look good but not ripe. You should wait until it turns completely yellow before you eat them. The early ones that are not fully ripe will not be as good.

[sc4001992]

Dan, if you have a brix meter (refractometer), can you take a brix reading of your ripe fruit.

[12Zodiac]

Dan, if you have a brix meter (refractometer), can you take a brix reading of your ripe fruit.

Unfortunately I don’t have a brix meter but from my experiences, the first year grafted fruits will most likely be not so great.

[manfromyard]

The only citrus that I also have been unable to graft (multiple times) are Miho and Xie shan. Must be rootstock incompatibility. I have tried both on trifoliate and on citrangequat..so strange..

[Lauta_hibrid]

I have had some problems grafting Poncirus, the thing is that I thought spring was good for everyone, but Poncirus here is grafted when it is warmer, that is, summer. In spring it is just awakening and so it is more difficult to graft. Keep that in mind. Second is that there are methods that give you more time for the graft to stick. I usually graft by covering the graft with a bag that also leaves a leaf from the foot inside... that gives humidity to the face of the grafted variety. Once I grafted in autumn and the graft survived the whole winter, and in spring I discovered it when I pulled the first new shoot. The last tip is to "make a lemon tree from seed". You use the lemon to maintain the variety that you buy from the CCPP and then you graft by taking material from there. The lemon sticks easily and will allow you to practice with that material more times. Many times it is a problem of lack of practice, mainly if they are difficult varieties. In order not to lose them, I always graft on lemon 💪.  I hope that some of my experiences will be of use to you.