Snakes and Food Forests

[Rob From Sydney]

I just got thinking about my to-be food forest, and wondered about the risk of snakes.
Has anybody ever had problems with snakes in their food forest?
And if you have, what have you done about it?
Thanks!

[MadFarm]

https://youtube.com/shorts/t6aqf2BiyAI?si=Bf0XsMqVKxIRbfny
A welcome predator in my food forest for rodent control. I'm under the impression that most of ya'lls snakes are quite lethal down under.

[fruit nerd]

If your orchard/food forest provides habitat for frogs, rodents, skinks and geckos etc, you'll get snakes if they are around. The majority of snakes where we live are harmless, but there are still eastern browns, coastal taipans, death adders, red bellied black and eastern small eyed snakes in the area. What I do:

• Mow regularly
• Don't let fruit drop and rot and the ground
• Look where you walk
• Use a torch outside when dark
• Think before putting your hands into hiding spots! (I accidentally grabbed a snake in our pool's skimmer box when cleaning out leaves, lesson learned.)

[tongmuan]

You just live with them, and take their existence into account. I have encountered a lot of snakes in our gardens, including cobras and malayan pit vipers, but harmless ones like rat snakes and golden tree snakes are even more common. None has ever been aggressive, and they try to get away from noise and movement, but accidentally stepping on them would probably provoke a bite.

After some close calls of a snake taking off less than a meter away without me having noticed it at all, I now always use boots and long pants when walking in weedy areas.

We also have centipedes with quite a nasty bite (never been bitten so far, but accidentally had one in my bare hand once when taking some coconut husk from a bag without looking) and scopions (been stinged quite often by the small ones, they sometimes come inside the house too - it feels like electric shock with numbness for a few hours afterwards).

[Coconut Cream]

I hope I do have snakes, eating all those horrible squirrels and rats!

[roblack]

Snakes in Australia are different. Way more venomous varieties there, can see how that could be an issue. Here, most venomous snakes are either near freshwater (moccasins, cotton mouths), or in the woods (rattlers). Only see rat snakes, racers, and ring necks here in suburbia. They are very welcome. Coral snakes are common in some areas, but are not aggressive and usually do not bite (from what I've been told).

[spaugh]

Yes we have rattlesnakes.  Have come close to stepping on them way too many times.  You just need to watch where you walk at all times. 

[SHV]

I too have nearly stepped on and grabbed rattlers while working.  I figure it’s just a matter of time before I’m bit on accident.  An ER doc once told me the vast majority of rattler bites are from the waist up because people are dicking around with them, attempting to wrangle them with their hands.  I love to see snakes in the orchard.  I have spotted a couple types of rattlers, garter, King, black and red racers, and my favorite gopher snake.  Even saw a rosy boa for the first time last year. 
Speaking of scorpions, been nearly stung twice by scorpions reaching my hand down gopher holes while setting traps.  Not looking forward to that eventuality. 

[RS]

Here, most venomous snakes are either near freshwater (moccasins, cotton mouths), or in the woods (rattlers). Only see rat snakes, racers, and ring necks here in suburbia. They are very welcome.

This is what we have too, with the occasional cottonmouth being near a lake. A rat snake recently fell out of a tree and landed 3 feet away from me while consuming a baby squirrel which was a surprise.

Actually have more problems with wasps/hornets, they often make nests on the underside of banana leaves or random vegetation that's hard to see. I use a long 7' garden stake to rustle the leaves ahead of me, which works for both snakes and stingers. Also fire ant/spiders, so I usually wear long pants tucked into socks to prevent them climbing up legs.

[pineflatwoods]

I've seen snakes in the grove, I leave them alone -even the venomous ones- they're one of the most important predators of pests, almost all of them are pretty reclusive.

[JR561]

Yup we have tons in the mulch around my house.

Even spotted a coral snake last year.

[roblack]

I too have nearly stepped on and grabbed rattlers while working.  I figure it’s just a matter of time before I’m bit on accident.  An ER doc once told me the vast majority of rattler bites are from the waist up because people are dicking around with them, attempting to wrangle them with their hands.  I love to see snakes in the orchard.  I have spotted a couple types of rattlers, garter, King, black and red racers, and my favorite gopher snake.  Even saw a rosy boa for the first time last year. 
Speaking of scorpions, been nearly stung twice by scorpions reaching my hand down gopher holes while setting traps.  Not looking forward to that eventuality.

Gopher snakes were my favorite snake when a kid in CA. Horny toads are awesome too!

[Julie]

If you're worried about snakes, don't go outside in flip flops/barefoot, wear boots.  I've seen a few snakes in my yard but it's no big deal.  I'm more worried about ticks.  I'm originally from New England where ticks are a serious problem.  I've never seen a tick on me here in Miami Florida so I don't know how bad the situation is here.

It makes sense to cover up when working outside.  I got a rash on my arm from a bug bite here.  It was a fungal rash and forum member spaugh helped me identify it and recommended a cream.  It took a year of applying the cream diligently to get rid of the rash and I'm 100% healed now from it.  I feel like that was once in a lifetime bad luck so I still go outside in T-shirts, etc, but if you're worried wear long sleeves/pants and boots.  The hazards created by man are a lot more dangerous than those in nature, but you should still take precautions and don't take crazy risks like those people taking selfies at the edge of a cliff.

[HSP]

I'm more concerned about squirrels, snakes are generally a good thing.

[BurkTheMangoLover]

If you're worried about snakes, don't go outside in flip flops/barefoot, wear boots.  I've seen a few snakes in my yard but it's no big deal.  I'm more worried about ticks.  I'm originally from New England where ticks are a serious problem.  I've never seen a tick on me here in Miami Florida so I don't know how bad the situation is here.

It makes sense to cover up when working outside.  I got a rash on my arm from a bug bite here.  It was a fungal rash and forum member spaugh helped me identify it and recommended a cream.  It took a year of applying the cream diligently to get rid of the rash and I'm 100% healed now from it.  I feel like that was once in a lifetime bad luck so I still go outside in T-shirts, etc, but if you're worried wear long sleeves/pants and boots.  The hazards created by man are a lot more dangerous than those in nature, but you should still take precautions and don't take crazy risks like those people taking selfies at the edge of a cliff.

Ticks are more prevelant up north here in America. Not too much of an issue if at all here in florida. Certainly snakes, then maybe even a large gator is more to worry about. Live with them long enough and you learn how to exist with them. watch where you walk and be aware of your surroundings above you when foraging or working on your trees.

[roblack]

I've never seen a tick in Miami Dade in 25 years. Found 1 on me after hiking west of Ocala (Central Florida). Used to get them all the time in Kentucky.

[Julie]

I've never seen a tick in Miami Dade in 25 years. Found 1 on me after hiking west of Ocala (Central Florida). Used to get them all the time in Kentucky.

Rob do you go hiking here in Miami Dade?  I want to explore some of the tropical hardwood hammocks here in the future but the ticks are in the back of my mind.

[roblack]

Mostly just beating the bushes around Miami, looking for critters with the kids or a lost frisbee. Done hammock clean ups and invasive removals. Never found any ticks on me or heard of any from others. Have hiked Big Cypress and some around the Virginia Key too. None noticed. Not saying they are not out there, but they are not as bad as up north.

[Julie]

thanks rob.

[fliptop]

I mentioned in another thread about wildlife in fruit trees that if I grew up in Australia I'd be dead, owing to my love of reptiles. I saw a coral snake in my yard when I lived in Pasco county, but I've only seen harmless ones where I'm at now. I do have a feeling I'll come across an Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake here one day. Have a lot of cover and a lot of marsh rabbits and voles.







Legless Lizards are super cool, too.



Regarding ticks, I've had a bunch on me when we went hiking around the Suwannee River and also Paynes Prairie in Alachua county. None so far down here.

[cassowary]

I see big red bellied blacks (8cm thick) here every month, they are so shy, they just slither away before you can step on them. Have been close like 30cm, and didn’t get bitten.

Pythons are very slow, you can stand over them and they will just move away slowly if at all.

IME Snakes are most of the time more afraid of us them we are of them.

We have night tigers (brown tree snakes) inside the house, they will stand up if you get close like 30cm but never got bitten.
Not so worried if I got bitten by night tiger or red bellied black anyway.

After awhile you will remember their favourite sunning spots and be slow around there. And I usually sing a bit or clapp my hands when I am out in the food forest so they know I am comming.

Embrace the snakes, they are very gentile and often times misunderstood.

HSP, me to I am more concerned about our squirrel equivalent the white tailed rat.

[fruit nerd]

Red bellied black snakes probably won't kill you but they are still regarded as dangerously venomous. The following is worth a look - https://www.mja.com.au/journal/2010/193/11/clinical-effects-red-bellied-black-snake-pseudechis-porphyriacus-envenoming-and.

[Mike T]

In Sydney and the surrounds there are a few nasty snakes but densities are low and diversity is comparatively low. By contrast here in Cairns I have had 4 species of pythons in the yard and the big scrubbies ate all my ducks and geese and some have been over 5m. There are around 4 other harmless snakes and a few mildly venomous snakes. While found nearby I have never had a taipan, death adder, eastern brown, small eyed or any other super nasty. I have never heard anyone in snake central which is north queensland even express concern about snakes in the orchard. The chance of getting bitten by a nasty species is remote in Cairns or Sydney.

[booeyschewy]

Not a big problem. If you’re actively managing the land snakes don’t like it. Even if they are there they tend to run. We occasionally see venomous snakes in our cacao groves and more frequently in guaraná (bushy). Chickens, turkeys and Guinea pea fowl help but they’ll trash any veggies you have

[agroventuresperu]

Not a big problem. If you’re actively managing the land snakes don’t like it. Even if they are there they tend to run. We occasionally see venomous snakes in our cacao groves and more frequently in guaraná (bushy). Chickens, turkeys and Guinea pea fowl help but they’ll trash any veggies you have

While Bothrops is very common here, what makes me nervous at the start of any bushwacking session on our property is the overwhelming diversity of wasp species, some with nests as big as laundry baskets...I've been stung more times than I can count.