Author Topic: Avocado tree spacing  (Read 1662 times)

pineislander

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Avocado tree spacing
« on: October 18, 2021, 08:10:16 PM »
I have two rows where I want to grow avocado trees. Each is a raised bed 120 feet long, and spaced 20 feet apart, with adjacent rows also 20 feet apart but other species, jackfruit on one side and sapodilla on the other. I have direct seeded avocado seeds to be grafted once they reach a large enough size, hopefully by early spring 2022. I planted 2-3 seeds at each position on a 4 ft spacing along these beds. Some seedlings are emerging now.
 
The close spacing is to asssure myself plenty of seedlings ready to use and also to eventually select the best trees to keep.

I understand that this spacing is too tight long term but if I get a good population for a very low cost I would be able to gradually thin the trees with little loss, then maybe even pot up some trees for sale. During the first years I may also get a very high production while the trees are small, almost an avocado hedge, with the option to remove trees as needed.

What are your thoughts about this, pluses and minuses, pros or cons?

Finca La Isla

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2021, 11:38:35 PM »
To me that sounds pretty well thought out. I’d be interested to know how many different selections you intend to graft onto your seedlings.
What sort of spacing are you using with the jackfruit and sapodilla, are you also grafting them in the field?
Peter

CTMIAMI

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2021, 06:49:23 AM »
Let's start with some questions:

Are these trees for commercial production or for family and friends?  If commercial what varieties you expect to end up with?

When you say "seedlings" are they of one variety or multiple?

What soil do you have in the raise beds?



Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

pineislander

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2021, 07:36:15 AM »
Let's start with some questions:

Are these trees for commercial production or for family and friends?  If commercial what varieties you expect to end up with?

When you say "seedlings" are they of one variety or multiple?

What soil do you have in the raise beds?

Carlos, you could say the intent is mixed, for small scale sales and personal consumption. I already have more avocado than I can eat but the trees I have were already here when I bought the place. I want to add more.

I am planting seeds that come from my current trees as they ripen and I eat them I plant a few every couple of days. I started with Brogdon and am now using Marcus Pumpkin and an unknown I think is Hall.
The soil is our native sandy stuff raised up about a foot and topped with six inches compost then 4 inches good mulch.

To me that sounds pretty well thought out. I’d be interested to know how many different selections you intend to graft onto your seedlings.
What sort of spacing are you using with the jackfruit and sapodilla, are you also grafting them in the field?
Peter
Peter, I have Mexicola, Day, Marcus Pumpkin, Brogdon, Choquette, Nishikawa, Golden, Winter Mexican, Donnie, Hall and a few others not sure of variety but grafted types of early mid and late varieties so I usually get six months picking. I'd like to duplicate and maybe add some other varieties.

The jackfrruit are seedlings of several different types. I planted groups of 4-5 seeds each group at 4 ft spacing and would like to try multi-rootstock grafting on these or just select the best growers and eventually thin them out.

Sapodilla are air layers of medium sized fruits. My neighbor has multiple trees and I took air layers from some of the best ones. I'll probably do 10 ft spacing for about 20 trees in two 120 ft beds.

here is a video showing the layout:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naJy3mRjZ44







CTMIAMI

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2021, 01:25:09 PM »
Is not that many trees to be a concern but just let me tell you my observation may be you find some useful:

The idea of multiple seedlings in the ground do not appeal to me since some of the cultivars you mention you have may not be good rootstocks. Example: Doni makes a strong trees on a Waldin or Lula, however their openly pollinated seedlings are very weak.

All my new plantings are on Waldin or VC-801 seedlings. Proven rootstock that do well . Is not the ideal because they are openly pollinated but is as close as you can get.  The rest of the world uses clonal rootstocks we in Florida have no access to them.

 Laurel Wilt is here to stay in Florida, you may not have any in Pine Island but sooner or later will happen. Lula is very susceptible to it. I would rule out Lula as a rootstock in Florida.  Also Laurel Wilt moves very quickly from tree to trees via roots. Once in underground you need to pull out 2-3 clean trees to stop the transmission.   Very hard thing to do. The closer the trees are the fastest it moves,

My main objection to 8' spacing besides the wilt is the growing rate of our trees in our summer months after the 3-4th year trees will explode and can grow a lot in one year. I prune and hedge every year, is expensive but I keep the trees at 16' and trimmed the sides to the herbicide line.  I do have 10' spacing but my rows are 22' apart to allow the light to come in. However I do see that the tress that get more light have better production

All my new planting to replace dead trees are at 20'.   Avocados need a lot of sun to produce and grow well.
Good luck.  Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

CTMIAMI

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2021, 07:00:36 PM »
Just to give you an idea of how a 10X22, topped and hedge every year looks like.

<br /><br /><br /><br />
Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

voyager

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2021, 07:22:55 PM »
20 ft. spacing is usually recommended for avos, but more would be better, especially if you intend to grow your trees larger.
I prune my trees to hold height and spread down.
So far, 18' to 20' spacing is adequate.
But, the avos are not planted next to each other.
Other smaller trees are intermingled with them.

I can pick from a ladder without the trees growing into each other.
I have grass planted under our trees, cut like the rest of our lawn.
There is little to no bruising of the fallen fruit.
The tree naturally drops the fruit before it's ripe, still hard within a few days of softening.

I usually, gather fallen fruit daily for eating.
They are usually ready to eat within 2 to 3 days.
It's easier to pick them up, than dig through the tree's canopy from a ladder looking for them.

Sharwils are hard to judge for readiness.
Ripening is judged by the skin loosing its shininess, turning into more of a matt finish on their surface.
Otas and Lamb-Hass' types are easier to judge because of color changes.
Hass turn black/dark purple, Otas yellowish with brown areas.

All three are very good.
But, I prefer the Sharwils and Otas.
The Sharwils get larger, most about 1 to 1-1/4 lb.
We've gotten some huge ones up to 1-1/2 pounds in size.
The Hass and Ota are more regular in size, 3/4 pound +/-.

Our avos are from grafted seedlings.
None are seed grown.
The way avos bloom, it is very unlikely their seed grown fruit will be like the parent tree's.
All avos seeds are likely to be hybrids.
Because of that, the fruit will likely vary from its parent's variety type. 
 
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 07:41:21 PM by voyager »

pineislander

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2021, 07:44:04 PM »
Thank you very much for the advice on spacing and rootstocks, Carlos!

Julie

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2021, 11:49:44 PM »
What are the chances if you plant an avocado it will get laurel wilt in Miami. Right now my lychee has erinose mite infection and I’m waiting for the state to call me back.. I know citrus greening is inevitable unless you keep your citrus tree inside a tent too.  :'(

CTMIAMI

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2021, 08:39:40 AM »
Strictly my opinion Julie, after having to deal with the wilt for several years now.
If you have a couple of trees in your back yard, 40-50 ft from each other,  and you keep them healthy, the chances are very small and should not deter anyone from planting an avocado tree at  home. Keep them small under 18 Ft,  prune so light gets in.   

The problem is in the commercial plantation where a lot of trees are grouped in close proximity and their root systems are naturally grafted. The more trees around the beetle vectors are more abundant.

These beetles are forest cleaners if there are trees showing stress they are going to do their job and finish them off. Once they inoculate the fungus, it moves inside the tree, rather quickly and in about 13-15 days, without showing exterior signs of the disease, is in the root system. By the time exterior symptoms are detected, several trees in the immediate area have it in their roots.   We always had these beetles around but now the natives have picked up the Asian fungus, Raffaela Lauricola so we have several species carrier of the wilt.

Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

JakeFruit

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2021, 09:41:51 AM »
...
 Laurel Wilt is here to stay in Florida, you may not have any in Pine Island but sooner or later will happen. Lula is very susceptible to it. I would rule out Lula as a rootstock in Florida.  Also Laurel Wilt moves very quickly from tree to trees via roots. Once in underground you need to pull out 2-3 clean trees to stop the transmission.   Very hard thing to do. The closer the trees are the fastest it moves,
...
Not to highjack the thread, but I found a paper that suggests Hass and Bacon rootstocks are more resistant that Lula to LW; also indicating that West Indian race are more susceptible to LW than Guatemalan and Mexican (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267354161_Screening_for_Avocado_Resistance_to_Laurel_Wilt_using_Shoot_Cuttings_Poster_Board_322). What seeds/rootstocks (available to home-growers) would you recommend in Florida, Carlos?

CTMIAMI

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2021, 02:13:19 PM »
Wished it was true but is not.  I have done extensive work and assisted scientist in various research on the subject. Although may be true that some cultivars may be more resistant than others, this research using cuttings really is far from realistic. I have seen hundreds of potted trees inoculated with the pathogen and there is great variability of the rate of contamination, once this is taken to a field tree all changes very quickly. It may mean that a tree shows symptoms  in 12 days vs 16 or 20 days. But eventually they all die. I do agree with the statement that Lula is more susceptible.
To answer your question:  I only would use Waldin, seen some continued resistance (the legitimate Waldin,  a lot of seedlings around) I'm not sure how available this is to home growers.

Also I have seen some real resistance and good qualities on VC 801 an Israeli rootstock I have some trees in the ground on VC801 and are doing really well. Does not make a small tree but gets to production quicker.  I only know of 4 trees in Dade County of this and I have 3 of them.
This season I will be grafting on Toro Canyon seedlings and next year if I get my trees to fruit with Duke 7. 
« Last Edit: October 22, 2021, 02:23:07 PM by CTMIAMI »
Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

Julie

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2021, 12:04:33 AM »
Thank you Carlos, that gives me hope and I will definitely not plant my avocado trees next to each other. I’m sorry for the loss of trees you’ve experienced in your commercial grove.

CTMIAMI

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2021, 07:18:22 AM »
Julie for the homeowner is time to think about avocado cocktail tree with 3 varieties to cover the season and have an isolated trees instead of several.
Carlos
 Tweeter: @carlosdlt280
www.myavocadotrees.com
zone 10a Miami-Dade County

sal48

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Re: Avocado tree spacing
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2021, 10:30:22 AM »
To make a cocktail tree there are several options for mid-summer and fall-early winter varieties but when it comes to late winter and early spring the choices are more limited and confusing. On top of that varieties in Florida will not ripen at the same time as in California.

Which variety (ies) would be best for South Florida of those maturing between January and early May, all considering production, tree resistance, fruits quality......

This period of the year (January to May) is when some good cultivars would be greatly appreciated.